Found! Obi-Wan Kenobi ANH Lightsaber Emitter
- Thread starter Blaxmyth
- Start date
-
- Tags
- star wars a new hope
Well, you've insulted me, but thats cool.
Having a father in the Army for over 20 years who flew helicopters in Vietman, was an instructor in the Flight School, and a battalion leader of a Tank Division (Hell on Wheels), and was on the test committe for the Apache Helecopter prior to the Army purchasing it, I know a little about the Military process growing up as an Army Brat. I've been on more Army bases then I can remember.
With most engines and aircraft, replacement parts come in the caseload for repair and maintance and parts are not in short supply when a branch of Military is using a certain piece of equipment for active duty. Granted we are talking about much older aircraft, but you could probably find surplus parts for F-4 Phantoms if you went looking around and made some good contacts. Reading earlier in this Thread, this engine seems to have been used in several aircraft in several countries, I bet parts are easier to find then you would think. I'm not saying it would be a cake-walk, but I doubt there are absolutly no parts available for this engine anywhere in the world except on the engines themselves.
Having a father in the Army for over 20 years who flew helicopters in Vietman, was an instructor in the Flight School, and a battalion leader of a Tank Division (Hell on Wheels), and was on the test committe for the Apache Helecopter prior to the Army purchasing it, I know a little about the Military process growing up as an Army Brat. I've been on more Army bases then I can remember.
With most engines and aircraft, replacement parts come in the caseload for repair and maintance and parts are not in short supply when a branch of Military is using a certain piece of equipment for active duty. Granted we are talking about much older aircraft, but you could probably find surplus parts for F-4 Phantoms if you went looking around and made some good contacts. Reading earlier in this Thread, this engine seems to have been used in several aircraft in several countries, I bet parts are easier to find then you would think. I'm not saying it would be a cake-walk, but I doubt there are absolutly no parts available for this engine anywhere in the world except on the engines themselves.
Originally posted by Prop Runner+Oct 1 2005, 04:23 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Prop Runner @ Oct 1 2005, 04:23 AM)</div>James,
We're talking about a 60 year old engine made for planes that haven't flown in nearly 40, except for a handful at museums, and those most likely have original or custom rebuilt parts in their engines. Don't expect to find MOPAR dealers for a Dewert Mk. 8 - I just don't think there's much demand...Having said that, it is possible Rolce Royce contracts with aerospace-grade machine shops to provide non-stock replacement parts for vintage engines. Hopefully our RR contact can shed more light on this angle.
The problem is, if you knew what high-grade materials and ridiculous machining tolerances are used in the manufacture of aerospace parts, you wouldn't have posted to begin with, lol. If RR blueprints of an interconnector can be found, or if an interconnector in good condition can be put to calipers and reverse-engineered, any machine shop could knock these out. And remember you'd still need some sort of spacer/adapter ring to connect it to the grenade.
- Gabe
[snapback]1087786[/snapback][/b]
Serafino
Sr Member
James, I think you and Gabe have perhaps misunderstood each other. Gabe's saying that newmade aeronautical parts would be expensive, and he's right.
It's now clear that what you're talking about is parts held by the military, which would now, if available to us at all, be pretty much scrap or surplus, not 'new'. That is a direction we hope will turn something up for us, but I get the impression these interchanges were not particularly prone to being replaced.
The guy I talked to who flew one of these for years as a hobby said he never had need of parts for it and had no specific ideas about where to go for them.
But he did give me a lead which Chris T. is already working on.
It's now clear that what you're talking about is parts held by the military, which would now, if available to us at all, be pretty much scrap or surplus, not 'new'. That is a direction we hope will turn something up for us, but I get the impression these interchanges were not particularly prone to being replaced.
The guy I talked to who flew one of these for years as a hobby said he never had need of parts for it and had no specific ideas about where to go for them.
But he did give me a lead which Chris T. is already working on.
Prop Runner
Sr Member
James,
Why do you feel insulted - because I disagree with something you said? Come on... I wasn't mocking you or your father's distinguished service record and I have no clue why you even brought him up, but like you said - it's cool.
Again, the RAF and the clients Britain sold Meteors and spare parts to over the years never had anywhere near the astronomical maintenance and inventory budgets the Pentagon has for our armed forces, and even if at one time there were warehouses full of Dewert parts and boxes of interconnectors stacked to the ceiling in Britain, those would have been auctioned off as surplus or sold for scrap metal decades ago.
As a man who knows the military intimately, you don't need me to tell you how expensive military equipment is. I've designed parts to military and aerospace specs and let me tell you - I could retire on the budget for just one of the small aircraft fuel pump redesign government contracts I once participated in... The amounts of money military and aerospace spec. hardware costs are insane, but then again: you get what you pay for.
I still maintain that our best bet is to find one or two original parts in good condition and reverse engineer them, just as we're trying to do with the newly discovered Han Solo ANH blaster suppressor. Our second best bet is to get our hands on the last known released drawings of our elusive interconnector parts and have new ones CNC machined as a bulk order. If Rolce Royce keeps a meticulous blueprint archive, it could be payday.
Good luck to everybody in their quests.
- Gabe
Why do you feel insulted - because I disagree with something you said? Come on... I wasn't mocking you or your father's distinguished service record and I have no clue why you even brought him up, but like you said - it's cool.
Again, the RAF and the clients Britain sold Meteors and spare parts to over the years never had anywhere near the astronomical maintenance and inventory budgets the Pentagon has for our armed forces, and even if at one time there were warehouses full of Dewert parts and boxes of interconnectors stacked to the ceiling in Britain, those would have been auctioned off as surplus or sold for scrap metal decades ago.
As a man who knows the military intimately, you don't need me to tell you how expensive military equipment is. I've designed parts to military and aerospace specs and let me tell you - I could retire on the budget for just one of the small aircraft fuel pump redesign government contracts I once participated in... The amounts of money military and aerospace spec. hardware costs are insane, but then again: you get what you pay for.
I still maintain that our best bet is to find one or two original parts in good condition and reverse engineer them, just as we're trying to do with the newly discovered Han Solo ANH blaster suppressor. Our second best bet is to get our hands on the last known released drawings of our elusive interconnector parts and have new ones CNC machined as a bulk order. If Rolce Royce keeps a meticulous blueprint archive, it could be payday.
Good luck to everybody in their quests.
- Gabe
Gigatron
Sr Member
Originally posted by Serafino+Oct 2 2005, 03:20 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Serafino @ Oct 2 2005, 03:20 AM)</div>One of those contacts will be looking at a picture of the gear as soon as he gets to work this week.
[snapback]1088157[/snapback][/b]
That is damn fine news - damn fine news indeed
.James, I wouldn't take it as an offense. PR (or the rest of us) would have no idea you grew up around military installations. We would assume that you're just a regular joe who may be under the presumption that the collector/restoration market for the derwent was something along the lines of the market of car restorers. Yes, granted the military does order stuff like that in bulk, but I would think it would be of parts that tend to go funny, i.e. the igniters, canopies (bird strikes), landing gear tires, engine parts that actually move. Our little friend is a pass tube, does nothing but sit there day in and day out.
Anyway, back to the search
..-Fred
Gigatron
Sr Member
Here are 2 more high res pics of a derwent 8. They don't really show much in terms of what we're looking for but they give you an idea of where everything goes
[attachmentid=4890]
[attachmentid=4891]
You'll notice in the top pic, you can see most of the gears (towards the right). Unfortunately, the pic is taken from the wrong angle. We need a pic taken INTO the wheelcase so we can see the splined end of the drive shaft.
Feel free to nitpick your way through the pics to see if you can see anything. I have much larger pics on my machine. If you'd like though, go to www.enginehistory.org and do a search for derwent. You'll find these pics and more (though nothing we haven't seen - unless someone misnamed them)
-Fred
[attachmentid=4890]
[attachmentid=4891]
You'll notice in the top pic, you can see most of the gears (towards the right). Unfortunately, the pic is taken from the wrong angle. We need a pic taken INTO the wheelcase so we can see the splined end of the drive shaft.
Feel free to nitpick your way through the pics to see if you can see anything. I have much larger pics on my machine. If you'd like though, go to www.enginehistory.org and do a search for derwent. You'll find these pics and more (though nothing we haven't seen - unless someone misnamed them)
-Fred
Gigatron
Sr Member
Well, there are a few ways you could go with this:
1) tell them you're interested in turbine engines, specifically derwent, and while you've seen the piece mentioned in print, there are no pictures of the item available (and lord knows it's the truth)
2) you're working on a resto or school project, but be careful, if they start questioning you about the engine, you better be somwhat familiar with the terms and inner workings
and 3) (and probably the way I would go) tell them you think the piece in question may have been very instrumental in star wars (I'm sure they heard of it) and you need the piece to verify your findings. Even if they only let you photograph and measure it (maybe they're hard to come by), it'll be better than nothing at all.
But that's me, maybe someone here has a better way.
-Fred
Serafino
Sr Member
I'm tending towards being honest, I like the argument for it posted above. But the more 'official' the first contact, the more likely I am not to mention it at first. An engineer I can see having interest in our quest. Bureaucrats are notoriously unimaginative, on the other hand.
Serafino
Sr Member
Originally posted by Lordsandy+Oct 3 2005, 08:57 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Lordsandy @ Oct 3 2005, 08:57 AM)</div>That's the way I thought about it originally, but I find Gabe's ideas about this very persuasive, and I'd rather be honest given a reasonable chance it won't amount to shooting myself in the foot:
@Sep 29 2005, 08:29 PM
Gabe, what kind of experience have you had with the results of being up front about what we want a part for?
In some arenas it hasn't been helpful, but perhaps I am being overly cautious in avoiding the subject in this case. It would be fun to let people in on our excitement actually, while acting suitably embarassed at being so geeky.Â
[snapback]1086639[/snapback]
Keep in mind that collectors and preservationists like us are kindered spirits - we will probably geek out over each other's stuff and have a healthy respect for each other's passions. I'm counting on that when I correspond with a source. In the past, it helped me get proprietary 1:1 scale drawings of the Hellboy Samaritan from the conceptual artist who designed it for the film, as well as 10 signed & numbered Blade Runner origami chickens from the British paper folder whose hands were actually seen in the movie posing it on Captain Bryant's table (Ridley Scott cut out the scene in which his hands were actually shown folding it out of a crumpled cigarette box liner he picked out of an ashtray). He sent me 10 origami reproductions all the way from the UK to California for free, because he respected our passion for his work.
I suggest that a courtious and honest, yet restrained approach will make the Dewert and Meteor sources "friendly to our cause." And since they're all aviation buffs to begin with, it's not a stretch to think that they love sci-fi too.
[snapback]1086659[/snapback]
Probe Droid
Master Member
I agree, be honest. You don't have to offer excess info unless requested. You could simply say it's for a film prop you're trying to build and don't offer details unless requested. There are lots of SW fans out there, maybe some closet geek unknowingly is sitting on the part we've been looking for for years and would be thrilled to assist.
I helped Prop Replicator get info on The Prisoner phone by contacting some British phone collectors. The guy asked what my interest was, and I told him, including giving the RPF's addy. He checked us out and thought we were all pretty cool.
I helped Prop Replicator get info on The Prisoner phone by contacting some British phone collectors. The guy asked what my interest was, and I told him, including giving the RPF's addy. He checked us out and thought we were all pretty cool.
amish
Sr Member
No sure if this was posted or not, but this letter make me think that some parts could still be in supply.
I found this letter here
http://www.caa.co.uk/default.aspx?category...=90&pageid=2629.
I found this letter here
http://www.caa.co.uk/default.aspx?category...=90&pageid=2629.
Gigatron
Sr Member
That letter pops up every time I look for parts. I've seen it so many times I can almost quote it verbatim :lol.
While it doesn't give any real hope as to finding the interconnector, it does however, give me some about the gear. If the gear is indeed part of the impeller drive shaft, then it is feasible that there are replacements being made.
If we could track down a driveshaft in its entirety, we could really put that theory to rest one way or another. If the gear is indeed cut down from a larger section as Serafino has deduced, then getting a good look at this thing would give us diameter and tooth count.
-Fred
While it doesn't give any real hope as to finding the interconnector, it does however, give me some about the gear. If the gear is indeed part of the impeller drive shaft, then it is feasible that there are replacements being made.
If we could track down a driveshaft in its entirety, we could really put that theory to rest one way or another. If the gear is indeed cut down from a larger section as Serafino has deduced, then getting a good look at this thing would give us diameter and tooth count.
-Fred
I asked my father in law about some of these parts...he was a Mechanic for United Airlines for 30 years...
He was knowledgeable about jet engines in general though not specificly the Derwent...
Apparently RR made engines for many airplanes, not the same engines of course...but the principals are the same.
Yes the interconnector is part of the cooling system but he didn't recognize it specificly...
But the most interesting piece of info I got was about the gear...
I showed him the drawing showing the female pattern that we believe to be close, and said to him...we are trying to find the piece that goes into there...
He said that would be the speedometer (engine speed or whatever it's called on a plane) hookup linkage thing (I'm trying to remember all the tech names he told me).
So, look toward the speedometer for our gear perhaps
He was knowledgeable about jet engines in general though not specificly the Derwent...
Apparently RR made engines for many airplanes, not the same engines of course...but the principals are the same.
Yes the interconnector is part of the cooling system but he didn't recognize it specificly...
But the most interesting piece of info I got was about the gear...
I showed him the drawing showing the female pattern that we believe to be close, and said to him...we are trying to find the piece that goes into there...
He said that would be the speedometer (engine speed or whatever it's called on a plane) hookup linkage thing (I'm trying to remember all the tech names he told me).
So, look toward the speedometer for our gear perhaps
Gigatron
Sr Member
Originally posted by Sporak@Oct 3 2005, 08:50 PM
But the most interesting piece of info I got was about the gear...
I showed him the drawing showing the female pattern that we believe to be close, and said to him...we are trying to find the piece that goes into there...
He said that would be the speedometer (engine speed or whatever it's called on a plane) hookup linkage thing (I'm trying to remember all the tech names he told me).
So, look toward the speedometer for our gear perhaps
[snapback]1089123[/snapback]
Unfortunately, while we don't know where the gear actually comes from (it's all speculation at this point), we do know the pic that you showed him was of the impeller drive shaft, essentially the axle of the engine. It connects the starter and "transmission" unit (wheelcase) to the actual jet. Without the shaft, the starter drive would spin, but the engine would be dead as there was nothing connecting the two.
Here's a highlighted pic to show what I'm talking about:
[attachmentid=4892]
The red is the driveshaft, the blue box is where we expect to find the gear. You'll see gears in that box, don't get excited. Those are the gears that mesh our female drive receptacle to the breather plate (see post #184 for a better visualisation)
hope this clears a little bit up.
-Fred
ytt1300
New Member
http://www.corestore.org/scrap.htm
is anyone close to this place, might be worth a look?
-Kevin
[googled derwent, surplus]
is anyone close to this place, might be worth a look?
-Kevin
[googled derwent, surplus]
lonepigeon
Master Member
That place has GOT to be investigated.
They had a few Derwents sitting there in 1999. Hopefully they're still there.
Also remember 9 IG-88 heads per engine too.
I think I found the address and phone number, but rather than post it right now I am forwarding to an RPFer who I believe is in the area.
At this point we just need someone to call and confirm if they are there and then go an investigate if they are.
Please don't everyone swamp them with phone calls etc.
They had a few Derwents sitting there in 1999. Hopefully they're still there.
Also remember 9 IG-88 heads per engine too.
I think I found the address and phone number, but rather than post it right now I am forwarding to an RPFer who I believe is in the area.
At this point we just need someone to call and confirm if they are there and then go an investigate if they are.
Please don't everyone swamp them with phone calls etc.
Similar threads
