Found! Obi-Wan Kenobi ANH Lightsaber Emitter

Discussion in 'Star Wars Costumes and Props' started by Blaxmyth, Sep 26, 2005.

  1. Blaxmyth

    Blaxmyth Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Check out the nozzle-thingy on the bottom right of the cutaway Derwent engine, just below IG-88Â’s head. Possibly an Obi ANH emitter?

    [​IMG]

    ItÂ’s here on these pages:

    http://www.gasturbineowners.com/derwent.htm

    http://www.gasturbineowners.com/images/a23.jpg

    http://www.gasturbine.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/derwent.htm

    http://www.gasturbineowners.com/raf_manual_ap4038b_vol.htm

    http://www.gasturbineowners.com/raf_manual_ap4038b_vol1.htm

    From some of the diagrams, I think it is the torch igniter. Got to be worth checking out. WhoÂ’s got access to one of these in an aircraft museum in England?

    I wouldnÂ’t be surprised if we spot some of IG-88Â’s torso and limbs there as well. Maybe, just maybe, even the Obi gear as well. ;) Yours oh so optimistically, Phil
     
  2. Howard

    Howard Sr Member

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    Now that looks very interesting.

    Howard.
     
  3. amish

    amish Sr Member

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    Awesome possibility.

    Is this the Derwent 8 or 9 engine. I am trying to dig up some good images.
     
  4. Havoc

    Havoc Active Member

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    Well considering that it looks like the ANH Flash hider may have came from an aircraft, they may have taken more parts from planes for other props.
     
  5. vaderdarth

    vaderdarth Master Member

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    Absolutely brilliant find........I"ve looked at that silly diagram over and over and it was right in front of us all along............Here's to hoping its what we hope it is....

    Dave :)
     
  6. Serafino

    Serafino Sr Member

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    I agree that looks promising, the torch relationship sounds good, and the proportions look right.

    WhatÂ’s the scale on this?
     
  7. OldKen

    OldKen Master Member

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    looks like it from this POV, but geezus, how much would it cost to get your hands on one???
     
  8. Howard

    Howard Sr Member

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  9. acerocket

    acerocket Well-Known Member

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    Found this site that may be of interest.
    Rolls Royce homepage.

    According to the above press release, they have all the derwent engine drawings in an archive at the Hucknall branch as well as some engines. Maybe if someone were to politely write a currator there, a few of the more important drawings to us could be copied and sent. Or perhaps even a member who lives near Notts, England could arrange a tour and posibly get some info that way. Either way, I think as a group, only one or possibly two people at the most should attempt to contact RR. The more people who bother them, the less likely we are to get any information.

    Also, since the engine was used on the Meteor. Perhaps a visit to the local air museum and a talk with the restoration staff might yield some pics or info. If I remember, the Planes of Fame Museum in Chino, CA (near me) has a meteor on display.
     
  10. starwrslover

    starwrslover Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Howard, I don't think I see what you mean, Help..
    Scott
     
  11. Force Commander

    Force Commander Well-Known Member

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  12. Serafino

    Serafino Sr Member

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    Acerocket I agree entirely, researching this should be handled with great delicacy to ensure we get the best information possible.

     
  13. Serafino

    Serafino Sr Member

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    I think he's talking about the functionality of the piece, read some text at that site and you'll get an idea.
     
  14. Force Commander

    Force Commander Well-Known Member

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  15. Killdozer

    Killdozer Active Member

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  16. lonepigeon

    lonepigeon Sr Member

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    Those patent links arent working for me.
    They just say the search timed out.

    This one will be a tough search, but hopefully a fruitful one.
    I want an IG-88 head.
     
  17. starwrslover

    starwrslover Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Aaahhh, got cha. :)
     
  18. neophyl

    neophyl Well-Known Member

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    The RR museum is at Hucknall ? Never knew that and I do my shopping there every 2 weeks. I only live about 20 minutes away but I dont think its open to casual visitors. I think you have t be a member of the trust.

    If I can help though just lmk.
     
  19. Force Commander

    Force Commander Well-Known Member

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    The site was very slow, timed out on me several times or I might have found something closer. Also, I believe those are all to recent for the actual item. It is hard to search for older items unless you know the patent numer. So, find newer items and click the links to the patents they reference in their making.
     
  20. Blaxmyth

    Blaxmyth Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Woohooo. I'm stoked to see it's going well so far.

    Just as an aside - did anyone check out the pictures in the manuals on the last two links? There's heaps of cutaways there, plus some have gears that look to have about the same number of teeth as the Obi gear, except they appear to be shorter in the length. Plus I can't figure out how they compare diameter-wise. But it got me thinking, what if the Obi gear is an oil-flinger gear from a scavenger-type pump - might explain the shape of the teeth? FWIW, Phil
     
  21. Blaxmyth

    Blaxmyth Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    HereÂ’s a close up of one of the pics with gears in. Seems to be roughly the same shape and number of teeth, just not sure of the overall diameter and length. But maybe there are more, longer gears in other pars.
    [​IMG]

    Here’s another picture in the manuals. Interesting point to me is the bit about the “mounting for the burner flange, which is secured to the facing by set-screws. The burner is described fully in Chapter 2 of this Section.” I haven’t got to / found Chapter 2 yet, but I was wondering if the ring of holes might in fact be for a ring of set screws to hold this to the casing, instead of being to admit jets of air or fuel. This might explain why someone was able to see daylight through them in one of the posts I read recently?

    [​IMG]

    Just speculating here. What do you think? Phil
     
  22. Gigatron

    Gigatron Sr Member

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    OK guys,
    I have a thought here. After looking at hundreds of diagrams, cutaways and what not, I think that while the diagram shows a promising part, we're looking for the wrong thing. An igniter torch is nothing more than a british spark plug, which would have an electrical connection (like the assembly at the top of the diagram in the first post).

    I'm thinking what we may be looking for is the coupler joint that connects the combustion assemblies to each other. The part we're looking for appears to be between chambers, not visible from the outside like the igniter ports would be. They'd have to be accessible for service reasons. Our part may never need service and can be buried between chambers.

    Here is the piece we're looking for (unexploded view). Only problem is, I don't know what it's called:

    [​IMG]


    If someone can find a derwent expert and ask them what it is, I think we'll have found our part.

    I hope this helps and leads somewhere.

    Thanks to WC for hosting

    -Fred
     
  23. bwingpilot

    bwingpilot Active Member

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    Maybe this pic will be of some value, it was posted in another thread trying to identify the emitter as an escutcheon. The topmost part of the object seems to be the emitter, if this is the case it is unlikely that the part you are looking at on the derwent is the correct emitter.
    [​IMG]
     
  24. PHArchivist

    PHArchivist Master Member

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    I don't recall the final outcome of the lead represented by that pic, but I do vaguely recall the chase fizzling out...
     
  25. Durasteel Corporation

    Durasteel Corporation Well-Known Member

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    Id be happy to just get a nice cast of the head for an IG88
     
  26. Serafino

    Serafino Sr Member

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    Bwing that part is not the emitter, it's a red herring IMO, my reasons already given in detail in prior threads.

    Remember that the 'gear' is not 'gear like' it's all rounded grooves and rounded edges, not sharp like the gears in the above pics.
     
  27. Sporak

    Sporak Sr Member Gone but not forgotten.

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    I was saving this for when it came up again...
    Searching this item/s will produce many many different types...and uses...

    Main Entry: es·cutch·eon
    Pronunciation: is-'k&-ch&n
    Function: noun
    Etymology: Middle English escochon, from Middle French escuchon, from (assumed) Vulgar Latin scution-, scutio, from Latin scutum shield .

    1 : a defined area on which armorial bearings are displayed and which usually consists of a shield

    2 : a protective or ornamental plate or flange (as around a keyhole)

    3 : the part of a ship's stern on which the name is displayed
     
  28. Durasteel Corporation

    Durasteel Corporation Well-Known Member

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    So, this guy is 'a cutchin'

    [​IMG]

    :D
     
  29. Prop Runner

    Prop Runner Sr Member

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    Here's what I'm seeing:
    The typical replica emitter:

    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    The cutaway torch lighter assembly:
    [​IMG]

    And what I see in it:
    [​IMG]

    Do my eyes deceive me?
    - Gabe
     
  30. Durasteel Corporation

    Durasteel Corporation Well-Known Member

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    how big is that sucker?
     
  31. Cantina_Dude

    Cantina_Dude Well-Known Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    I would say no. I think this is looking very promising. Now let's find one of these engines to tear apart... We might be able to check another part off on this lightsaber.

    Keep it up.

    MJC.
     
  32. Blaxmyth

    Blaxmyth Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Look's like we're looking for an inter-connector. Your overlay seems to be spot on. Also looks curiously close to the mystery spindle-thin in post 23. Maybe that was a similar item? Brilliant pics.
     
  33. Durasteel Corporation

    Durasteel Corporation Well-Known Member

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    whats up with this line though...Ive seen many prints but this line appears to separate something....

    [​IMG]


    still, I think the RPF may be 2:2 in discoveries this week.
     
  34. Prop Runner

    Prop Runner Sr Member

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    Drew, because it appears to compress between the parts, I'm thinking it's either a gasket or some kind of lubricant or sealant. It could also be a press-fit item that deliberately deformed the disc when inserted using a hydraulic press (I'm in 100% brainstorm mode here - stretching the limits of my speculation, to be sure...)

    For those having trouble connecting my dots... here's where they connect:

    [​IMG]

    - Gabe
     
  35. Durasteel Corporation

    Durasteel Corporation Well-Known Member

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    Youve got me 75% sold on the general shape but the placement in the print as compared to the photo has be scratching my head.

    For example, it looks like two identical Escutheuon (oh dear SP, sorry) are butted up next to each other....but the other eskoochon and the rest of this length of this piece (in the photo) does not appear to have the same valleys and risen bands....make sense? And clearly the end flange has slits in it.

    Some pieces in industry are used in more than one arrangement of parts...so this might be on of those freak luck out deals


    Edit, even though the print is not representative of the entire B/W photo, I see the specific section youre referring to Gabe.........but, the other end is still odd.
     
  36. Prop Runner

    Prop Runner Sr Member

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    In the top B&W photo, there seem to be two emitters (I'm now inclined to call them interface connectors) facing in the same direction - one on the right end and one second from the left end. That could imply that there may be more than just these two connectors throughout the jet engine and that there are more than one assembled configuration of this part. Since a jet engine has pumps, valves, actuators, mixing chambers, solenoids, heat elements, wiring, tubing, etc. scattered all around it, there may be other documented views containing this particular connector.

    In the comparisons below, I've indicated the identical features (as I see them) of the interface connectors facing each other in the same manner as they do in the B&W photo on the right end:

    [​IMG]

    Unfortunately, short of a full mechanic's manual, assembly blueprint, or physical jet engine at our disposal, we may never be able to get past that 75% certainty. :(

    - Gabe
     
  37. Blaxmyth

    Blaxmyth Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    It might also be that the item pictured beside the grenade is something that was assembled out of several interface connectors and other bits and pieces, sort of a trial run, rather than being an assembly removed in one piece from an engine.
     
  38. propcicle

    propcicle Well-Known Member

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    I've worked on some larger scale GE turbines and this piece is normally called the "cross fire tube". It's there so there doesn't have to be an ignitor in every chamber (can). You light one and the others on each side also ignite. I'm just not sure about the overall size of the engine as compared to the cross tube. Obi emitter could be the right size in fulfilling the function.

    We've got flash experts, grenade experts, military weapons experts, and now working on derwent engine experts. :lol Good luck.

    -Propcicle

     
  39. natty15d

    natty15d Well-Known Member

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    Using the sketch as a guide i put together this quick 3d model trying to keep the proportions right & heres what you get. :)

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  40. moffeaton

    moffeaton Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Gabe, please don't link to my pics. Thanks.
     
  41. vaderdarth

    vaderdarth Master Member

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    Holy Crap he's right............I keep forgetting that part of that pic is cutaway........that is a ring and the ring of holes is right there. Can someone scale it with software and count the holes from what is given in that diagram???? It also shows the size of hole in the IG88 head next to the emitter and that would make it very very close to the correct scale in my estimate. Now someone needs to give us some precise measurements of that using the software. :)
     
  42. vaderdarth

    vaderdarth Master Member

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    Nevermind......the more I look at the diagram........the more I see there is no doubt this is the piece. We just need to get our mits on one. This also tells me that the "crimped" tubing is just that.......tubing. to make it hold the grenade piece most likely. :)
     
  43. amish

    amish Sr Member

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    Looks * close to me. I had to look at the cut aways several times, but I see the shape and have reasonable belief this could be it. However, I think we need to see the actual part in order to be 100% sure.
     
  44. vaderdarth

    vaderdarth Master Member

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    I just noticed something else.......look at the part with the ring of holes......that part goes inside the "emitter proper" section.......notice the holes around the periphery of that which is hidden inside the tube???? Cool detail eh?? So when we ultimately make this uber accurate old ben emitter.......we can make sure to get those in there too. :)

    Also the "step" on that section too. Very critical details. We would never have thought that step existed on that end of it. :)
     
  45. Gigatron

    Gigatron Sr Member

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    I think if someone can find a way to get in touch the owner of this site http://www.gasturbine.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/derwent.htm , we might be in business. The owner seems to be an expert in Derwent engines. Maybe they have access to an engine or at least can get us pictures of the parts.

    We're looking for the combustion chamber inter-coupler. The engine consists of 9 combustion chambers, but only 2 igniters (probably and most likely on opposing sides). These inter couplers allowed the fire to spread into the other chambers.

    We're NOT looking for the igniter assemblies themselves. Those are just spark plugs and the mounts.

    If anyone lives near an aircraft graveyard (at least one that would have bristish aircraft) we might be able to find it that way as well.

    I'll keep looking, let's hope we get somewhere.

    -Fred
     
  46. PHArchivist

    PHArchivist Master Member

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    Maybe I missed something...

    The flanges circled in yellow -- how do you account for the disporportionate thicknesses? In the diagram thhe look much thicker (1/4" or so) but in the photo they look very thin.

    Again, perhaps I missed a detail in the thread...
     
  47. PHArchivist

    PHArchivist Master Member

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    Never mind -- I got it.
     
  48. cayman shen

    cayman shen Master Member

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    Now what the hell are we all going to post for April Fools? You could always count on six or seven "Obi-Wan ANH Emitter FOUND." threads. :p
     
  49. Probe Droid

    Probe Droid Master Member

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    These engines are not the easiest things to find info on, are they. I tried scrounging around the British Library's web site figuring if they have info on Dickens's snot rags they'd have some data on these engines. No dice. Maybe I was just searching using the wrong terms, but it's very frustrating. :angry
     
  50. Serafino

    Serafino Sr Member

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    Hi all. I agree that this looks HUGELY promising, but there are some things which aren't yet adding up.

    I agree that the part in the picture with the grenade looks very similar to this engine part. But that part has the wrong proportions to be the whole emitter. Nate's render shows this quite clearly, assuming he's matched the proportions of the engine part.

    Here's my prior analysis of the part in the picture.

    [​IMG]

    Are there variations in this design? The DRAWING shows the correct bevel on 'step 2', although the part in the picture does not.

    Also remember that the ring of holes should be recessed in the flange.
     

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