Building The Death Star - PRODUCTION

[PHArchivist]

Not really. I either held the styrene at arms length and spray or proped it up so it was still vertical.
Remember that smaller paint specks will travel farther than the larger ones. So I just sprayed in about 4 or 5 short bursts from about a foot and a half away to get the smaller dots and for the larger ones, I held the can well above the panel area so the larger dots would fall and hit it.
I didnt get the tone very even so I just hit it with some of my base color and adding those speckles evened it out.

Also it should be noted that a few of the panels in my picture dont have the white in them. Remember this was super quick and sloppy. No measuring or protractors. Just showing how I think you can get both the lightest and darkest panels with no darker grey.

I see what you mean about the location of those panels Rob. Good thing you spotted it now instead of later.

I had noticed the absence of white in some.

Its funny - our techniques (even down to the type of nozzle) are quite similar, but you can see a difference in the results.

I've found that the finest of particles hit the model as a dust that simply wipes off.

 

[vaderdarth]

experiment with how many inches you hold the spray from the surface. The distance changes the particle size too. Too far back and like you said, it's dust that wipes off. alter the distance an inch at a time and see what you can do. You can always apply a dull coat to hold that dust in place if you like how it looks.

 

[PHArchivist]

Not really. I either held the styrene at arms length and spray or proped it up so it was still vertical.
Remember that smaller paint specks will travel farther than the larger ones. So I just sprayed in about 4 or 5 short bursts from about a foot and a half away to get the smaller dots and for the larger ones, I held the can well above the panel area so the larger dots would fall and hit it.
I didnt get the tone very even so I just hit it with some of my base color and adding those speckles evened it out.

Also it should be noted that a few of the panels in my picture dont have the white in them. Remember this was super quick and sloppy. No measuring or protractors. Just showing how I think you can get both the lightest and darkest panels with no darker grey.

I see what you mean about the location of those panels Rob. Good thing you spotted it now instead of later.

Out of curiosity, what were the conditions of the cans? New or old? More or less than half full? Clean or occluded nozzles?

And were you using full pressure on the nozzles? Or partial, perhaps?

 

[PHArchivist]

Just more food for thought on the base coat versus no base coat discussion...

 

[tgreco]

to my eye.. it only looks like some of them have a base coat

panel #6 from the dish (going left to right)
#9 and #10 with the blueish tint
(and 6 and 9 may just be heavier then the others, as was demonstrated)

the rest look like they were stenciled off and just misted

and in a way it makes sense... if you had a small amount of time to get it done, the more stencilled off areas of different colors you have, the more likely you are to get paint to bleed under the tape... leading to time to fix
and on a dome, the likelihood increases of bleed under the tape

it's the simplest way to get it done...with the least likely chance of mistake or error, so I'm going with Occam's razor here...

hey, other then this minor set back, imagine how much time you'll save of the other row's you'll have to paint, and how much less touch up work you'll have to do

 

[tgreco]

one other note

the back areas, that are noticably darker then those towards the dish, look like they have overspray on them

it could be you're mirroring production more then you thought...

they could have started with the painted areas (the back does look like the area the experimented with) and abandoned it.... respraying the darker areas with the original base coat

this would also explain the depth those areas seemed to have too... with multiple maskings and coatings

 

[vaderdarth]

good point, they may have changed techniques multiple times trying to give it the right look. I'd say it was just as hard for them to achieve an even look with the spattering.

 

[PHArchivist]

All good points, Tony...

I've done a bit more mental gymnastics on the height of the lower row using different images and techniques, and it is proving to be a just shy of centimeter too high.

I've marked my line-drawing tool at a point 7mm to 8mm below the initial line. I will start masking off tomorrow to trim the height of this row.

Going nearly a full centimeter, it may effect the overall geometry to the point that I may have to redo most or all these first row boxes. Otherwise they'd be too short and wide (like my mother-in-law).

And another slight set back - I'm nearly out of base coat (Tamiya Light Grey Primer). I ordered more today. Brad, keep your fingers crossed it arrives by Saturday!

 

[Kuhn Global]

HOLY BUCKETS ROB!!!

THIS is beautiful my friend! BEAUTIFUL!!!

cool:thumbsup

 

[PHArchivist]

HOLY BUCKETS ROB!!!

THIS is beautiful my friend! BEAUTIFUL!!!

cool:thumbsup

Don't get too fond of what you see - it may end up getting redone!

But hopefully better, and thanks!

 

[Davy Jones]

Out of curiosity, what were the conditions of the cans? New or old? More or less than half full? Clean or occluded nozzles?

And were you using full pressure on the nozzles? Or partial, perhaps?

Eh.. I dont really know. The Rustoleum was a black primer and it was new. The Duplicolor grey primer and white paint had been used and might have had a bit of gunk in the nozzles.

As far as pressure, I dont think I was full on. I never used a burst more than a second long and most prob. under half a second.

I am not trying to be argumentative because I still think what you are doing is awesome, but even with those new pictures I still dont see a dark grey color.
I see where they stopped painting with the base grey but masked some panels beyond that point. Therefore they speckled at least the black on just the acrylic which appears dark in the picture. IMO.

But who knows? I seriously havent studied this model at all and there very well could be 3 types of darker greys they used. But I think you might be able to get all three colors with just the black and white speckling.

Should I try another paint test and see if its possible?

 

[PHArchivist]

Eh.. I dont really know. The Rustoleum was a black primer and it was new. The Duplicolor grey primer and white paint had been used and might have had a bit of gunk in the nozzles.

As far as pressure, I dont think I was full on. I never used a burst more than a second long and most prob. under half a second.

I am not trying to be argumentative because I still think what you are doing is awesome, but even with those new pictures I still dont see a dark grey color.
I see where they stopped painting with the base grey but masked some panels beyond that point. Therefore they speckled at least the black on just the acrylic which appears dark in the picture. IMO.

But who knows? I seriously havent studied this model at all and there very well could be 3 types of darker greys they used. But I think you might be able to get all three colors with just the black and white speckling.

Should I try another paint test and see if its possible?

Ah jeez, no...! And I'm not throwing up those shots to try to strong-arm a position either! And note I say speckle/base coat discussion, not debate!

Again, our techniques sound very similar, with the obvious difference of a base coat versus no base coat. But there are probably subtle nuances between what you are doing and what I am that also generate differences in the results (distance [your arm's lentgh is not the same as mine], angle of attack, pressure in the cans, humidity and temperature conditions, spraying on a flat surface versus curved, precise duration of spray, etcetera).

I'm fixated on what you have, since it looks (at least in the images) to be pretty much dead on.

 

[TridCloudwalker]

Sent you an e-mail, Rob. I may have some ideas.

 

[PHArchivist]

Sent you an e-mail, Rob. I may have some ideas.

Gotcha back...

This one is cropped, but reduced the least. Barely reduced at all, so highest resolution.

 

[vaderdarth]

Rob, what if the darker panels have more black speckling, but little or no white speckling, then the medium ones even white/black and the lightest ones more white???? That last pic, I see no white in the darkest panel, about half and half in the middle, then mostly white and very little black in the lightest one. I'm referring to the bottom 3 to the left in the pic.

Dave

 

[Dyonisis]

Rob, what if the darker panels have more black speckling, but little or no white speckling, then the medium ones even white/black and the lightest ones more white???? That last pic, I see no white in the darkest panel, about half and half in the middle, then mostly white and very little black in the lightest one. I'm referring to the bottom 3 to the left in the pic.

Dave

That doesn't account for the darkness of colour in the background. You can clearly see that this isn't all black speckles. There are quite a few that are visible,and the rest would be just as clear if what you're suggesting is true. There are too many colour variations to just be tiny paint speckles of any colour! You can also see that there are defined edges along the sides of each panel,and that too,is obvious.

 

[PHArchivist]

Ultimately we'll never know - unless Ralph McQuarrie speaks, and is lucid.

Couple more things to consider though about the last few shots I posted.

These are on the far right of the sphere, facing the dish. There is photographic evidence that virtually confirms that the last 10%-15% (before you reach clear acrylic) was added at a later point in time. My theory is that once the model made it to the stage, they determined they needed more coverage of the ball.

What this means is that it was possibly done by different artists, or if by the same artist, possibly under varying conditions with varying materials.

Either way, though I post those shots to suggest the darker "under panels", it seems to me that this pattern of darker panels does NOT necessarily continue as the sphere coverage wraps around towards the dish. As you come around into the finished area proper, the color tone lightens, and evens out a bit.

Also, the simple geometry of the panels right at the edge (before the clear acrylic) is different than the standard pattern.

So, in a sense I'm contradicting myself.

Though I posted those images to suggest a base coat, I frankly feel that that technique or style does NOT persist on the truly finished portion of the globe.

Make sense? I'm getting a headache...

 

[PHArchivist]

Also, the simple geometry of the panels right at the edge (before the clear acrylic) is different than the standard pattern.

In the upper dome, the rectangles are far too long horizontally. They may have been intending to come back in and separate them with base coat. In fact, applying base over the entire rectangle would take it closer to the look of the finished areas; sort of a pre-shading technique. But who knows.

In this image, in the lower dome, there are large and wide horizontal bands of base coat that do not exist in the truly finished lower dome areas.

 

[PHArchivist]

Dammit - now I've got myself wondering...

Who here votes that THE ENTIRE model was done with heavy, dark grey "base coat" blocks (like what we see on the right edge) first, which was then toned down by not only the speckling (black and white), but a fair amount of the true (light grey) base coat.

In fact, Davy Jones, you did some similar that (misting light grey base coat), only without the darker grey base coat.

And another repected member has shared with me that idea - of misting light grey base coat over the blocks to tone down the contrast.

In the upper dome, the rectangles are far too long horizontally. They may have been intending to come back in and separate them with base coat. In fact, applying base over the entire rectangle would take it closer to the look of the finished areas; sort of a pre-shading technique. But who knows.

 

[modeleers]

Fun with - the Science of Color Perception.
Go here:
http://www.colorserver.net/showcolor.asp?fs=17038&bkgr=0
...then adjust the 'background' ( White 10 20 30 40 50 60 70 80 90 Black)
& watch as the value of the Black square 'changes' before your very eyes.
The Darker the background = the Lighter the Black Square becomes.

To change the color of the Square - simply substitute the FS color number in the 'Add another color' tab.

Fun with White: FS 37925

And if you wanna go completely Nutz - try placing one of the many different Grays (in the Square) & shift the Backgound!!!