Axanar - Crowdfunded 'Star Trek' Movie Draws Lawsuit from Paramount, CBS

[batguy]

The entertainment industry has a habit of giving drunken kickers repeat chances until they've thrown a bunch of games.

And this drunken kicker sounds like a real parasite. Odds are, he will continue to look for ways to make a crooked buck off the ST community any way he can.

I say go ahead and give his name some press for causing this Axanar debacle.

 

[mistymills]

If your kicker commits a severe rules infraction that threatens to disqualify the team from the entire season, and maybe even expel the team from the league altogether, but that won't be determined till after the end of the season, do you spend the next four quarters beating him up? No, you replace him and play the damn game. Because in the end, your league status might turn out just fine, and right now, you've got a game to play.

Well to go along with that reasoning, you better believe that every sports news and regular news outlets are going to be talking about it and all the fans will be tearing him apart afterward. And as a person ON that team, since I am a fellow Trek fan (series) producer, I definitely think I have more than a right to 'beat up' on him if he caused us to change any aspect of the game because of his inability to play by the rules. It invalidates all the hard work the other teammates have done. To everyone else, it's just a thing to be watch and entertained by, but to those of us DOING it, it's months at a time out of our lives and money out of our pockets to bring about new episodes and I don't take lightly to anyone invalidating all my hard work by taking shortcuts and trying to turn a profit on what common sense and law has always said is a non-profit endeavor.

 

[asalaw]

Nobody's questioning anyone's right to (metaphorically) shoot the guy, nor am I saying he doesn't deserve it. I'm questioning the relevance of doing it here. But it's a waste of time, given the obvious anger and frustration he's stirred up with his actions. So vent away. I'm done talking about it.

 

[mistymills]

I don't think anyone here was venting, necessarily. But that wasn't the point. The point is that him being in charge of it is relevant. End of story. Like I said, it's not the whole issue, nor does it tie into every aspect, but it is a major issue. He makes sure everyone knows that he is a mouthpiece for the community (which he is not), so his actions are going to reflect on all of us, just like any spokesperson (self-proclaimed or otherwise) is a reflection on any other brand.

 

[Solo4114]

I think it's relevant insofar as his personality led him to exhibit more bravado than would otherwise be expected of a fan film, and more just sheer DGAF-ness, all of which means there is our should be ample evidence to support willful copying. Absent an affirmative defense -- which doesn't really seem legitimate either -- I'd say he's hosed.

As for what this means for future fan films, I would expect that CBS/Para will demonstrate more vigilance, but I don't actually expect "guidelines" to be forthcoming. There are legal implications with respect to such guidelines that go beyond the copyright realm and could lead to losses of trademarks.

 

[batguy]

I think it's relevant insofar as his personality led him to exhibit more bravado than would otherwise be expected of a fan film, and more just sheer DGAF-ness, all of which means there is our should be ample evidence to support willful copying. Absent an affirmative defense -- which doesn't really seem legitimate either -- I'd say he's hosed.

His described antics remind me of a couple of specific people I've dealt with in the past, other fans of franchises. Both of those guys were flat-out crooks who did stuff that defied the spirit of the shows they were such fans of.

If this guy is anything like those two then he needs to be un-welcomed from the hobby and his misbehavior made as public as possible. He won't stop looking for ways to take money & glory from the hobby just because he has been busted down to size this time. It reduces his pool of marks, but it also means he has much less to lose (no more decent reputation to worry about). Everyone else needs to be warned about him.

 

[Apollo]

Actually he has been in some peoples "crosshairs", they were just giving him enough rope to hang him self with. :unsure

 

[ghostryder]

I thought this was settled?

http://io9.gizmodo.com/thelawsuit-against-a-star-trek-fan-film-isnt-going-away-1782116151

 

[Apollo]

Now I KNOW you did'nt think that did you?! :lol

I thought this was settled?

http://io9.gizmodo.com/thelawsuit-against-a-star-trek-fan-film-isnt-going-away-1782116151

 

[Wes R]

It probably was settled until he got on their nerves again despite them being fairly generous.

 

[Apollo]

It aint over until the AP cries!

Either in victory, which I doubt, or in agony! :lol

 

[Solo4114]

It probably was settled until he got on their nerves again despite them being fairly generous.

More likely that Para/CBS are taking a two-pronged approach by continuing to pursue the case while also discussing settlement.

Put simply, there's no reason to drop a case altogether just because you're in settlement talks. Settlement talks are a negotiation, and any negotiation can fall apart before an actual settlement agreement is executed.


If anything, I would think this is a way for Para/CBS to assert more leverage and force Axanar to the table if Axanar is dragging its feet or making stupid demands.


Alternatively, maybe there weren't really settlement discussions. Or maybe they went like this "Here's our settlement offer. You shut down everything RIGHT ****ING NOW, and we don't ask for statutory damages."

 

[batguy]

If Alec Peters was going to listen to reason then the whole thing would never have gotten this far in the first place. He will probably keep fighting with Paramount until he either loses the legal battle or is otherwise stopped.

 

[Treadwell]

As I have previously demonstrated, I do not know law. But some of these counter motions and whatnot seem nothing more than stalling tactics and are blatantly wasting the Court's time and maybe even nearing the realm of Contempt.

 

[asalaw]

I've never heard of a case being withdrawn while settlement talks are still going on. Hearings might be continued, or discovery extended, things like that, if the negotiations are going well and there's good faith on both sides. But in a case like this, there's no incentive for the plaintiffs to drop anything.

Even if the settlement talks are court-ordered, it still doesn't mean there's necessarily going to be a settlement. That's why CBS/PMT were so "pleased to announce" that talks were going on. They were. Except that means absolutely squat.

 

[Solo4114]

As I have previously demonstrated, I do not know law. But some of these counter motions and whatnot seem nothing more than stalling tactics and are blatantly wasting the Court's time and maybe even nearing the realm of Contempt.

Not contempt, but in an extreme case, you can ask for sanctions when the other side's attorney violates the rules of civil procedure. The real danger for Axanar is that you don't win a battle of attrition/papercuts against the proverbial 800lb gorilla, let alone two of them holding hands. Moreover, if (when) Axanar finally loses, if memory serves, statutory damages includes attorney's fees. Meaning they'd have to pay Para/CBS' legal fees in addition to 3x actual damages.

I've never heard of a case being withdrawn while settlement talks are still going on. Hearings might be continued, or discovery extended, things like that, if the negotiations are going well and there's good faith on both sides. But in a case like this, there's no incentive for the plaintiffs to drop anything.

Even if the settlement talks are court-ordered, it still doesn't mean there's necessarily going to be a settlement. That's why CBS/PMT were so "pleased to announce" that talks were going on. They were. Except that means absolutely squat.

Exactly.

For those unfamiliar, think of it this way:

There's a big difference between:

- "We're in negotiations to buy a new house" and "We closed on our house today."

- "I haggled with the dealer at the car dealership" and "I bought a car today."

- "I'm talking to a dude about maybe doing a prop run" and "My prop run is done, and here are the props ready to go!"

"In" settlement talks means exactly that. You're talking about it. You haven't reached a conclusion yet. The talks could end up with a clear settlement, or the talks could go nowhere.

In this case, aside from positive PR, I don't see where Para/CBS' incentive is to give ground on, well, anything other than saying "We'll take less money from you." Or, at best (for Axanar), "We'll take no money from you, but you shut down now and forever."

And from the sound of it, Alec Peters is enough of a ******* that he'll fight to the point where he doesn't have the option to settle.

 

[asalaw]

But some of these counter motions and whatnot seem nothing more than stalling tactics and are blatantly wasting the Court's time and maybe even nearing the realm of Contempt.

It's a fairly standard tactic to try to damage -- or preferably, outright wreck -- your opponent's economic incentive to stay in the suit. Defendants typically get more latitude with it than plaintiffs do.

Contempt is usually reserved for those who violate the court's orders, or otherwise flout the court's authority. So, for instance, if Axanar refuses to turn over certain documents to CBS/PMT during discovery, then CBS/PMT can ask for an order compelling Axanar to turn them over. If Axanar still refuses after the court issues the order, then Axanar can be found in contempt. Same thing when a witness refuses to answer a question on the stand even after the judge orders her to do so, Susan McDougal being a famous example.

Sanctions, OTOH, are (usually) fines imposed for misconduct of some sort, either by attorneys or by the parties themselves. In the case of attorneys, sanctions can range from a slap on the wrist to removal from the case and everything in between. They might be imposed for things like knowingly including false allegations in the lawsuit, knowingly destroying or concealing evidence, etc. In my experience, sanctions are really hard to get. Almost any argument will get you by as long as the court thinks it's plausible. If you ask for sanctions over trivial matters, OTOH, you can annoy the court. Which is never, ever, wise. Many attorneys only ask for sanctions in cases of seriously over-the-top misconduct for just that reason.

 

[Wes R]

I don't get it, all they have to do is work with Paramount and maybe just maybe they'd get studio support to at least distribute it if they were lucky but instead they're being insane and wasting everyone's time.

 

[Solo4114]

I don't get it, all they have to do is work with Paramount and maybe just maybe they'd get studio support to at least distribute it if they were lucky but instead they're being insane and wasting everyone's time.

That requires Paramount to be willing to and interested in working with them in the first place. It's hard to get studio support, when the studio has zero desire to support you.

Why should Paramount work with them? Because they're nice people? Because someone on a website wrote an article talking about how it's possible that Klingon should be in the "creative commons"? Because fans seem a little more interested in Axanar's final product than anything with the Trek brand on it in the last few years? If anything, that last one is an extremely compelling reason to use the law to nuke this project from orbit.

Put simply, the only reason for Paramount to come to the table is because they have better things to do than argue with some pissant wannabe studio. But that only works if said pissant wannabe studio doesn't also suffer from delusions.


Have we gotten to the stage where Paramount can file a motion for summary judgment? Because this case should've been put to bed and Axanar should have been shut down AGES ago.

 

[Cameron]

Im of the opinion that JJ and Lin don't even know or care about the details of Axanar. They were probably surprised by the teleprompter and just spoke on protecting fan films in general without even knowing the size or level of the Axanar infringement. I don't think they have even seen the trailer and were thinking it was a small production made on some fans dime, not the monster it is.

Reading exactly what JJ said I don't think he has any idea and frankly neither did Lin.
Here is how I bet it went down.

Lin after reading one small blurb online about the suit. " Hey JJ, I can't believe the studio is suing a fan film"
JJ " Thats crazy"
Lin "I think I'll go talk to the studio cause thats not cool and it looks bad"
JJ "Sounds good"

A few days after the con and speaking with the studio.

Lin "Hey JJ, the studio showed me how much this guy raised. This aint no "fan film" and it looks like a guy named Alec is trying to make a mint off of it"
JJ "Oh crap, and I trash talked the studio at that con"
Lin "Me too, ****...."

Remember, here is what JJ said:A few months back there was a fan movie, Axanar that was being fan made, and there was this lawsuit between the studio and these fans. And Justin was sort of outraged by this as a longtime fan. And, we started talking about it and realized this was not an appropriate way to deal with the fans. The fans should be celebrating this thing, we all [as] fans are part of this world. So he went to the studio and pushed them to stop this lawsuit and now within the last few weeks it will be announced that this is going away and the fans will be able to [continue] their productions.