Axanar - Crowdfunded 'Star Trek' Movie Draws Lawsuit from Paramount, CBS

[Moviefreak]

Well it's not really dishing because it's up for public consumption...
http://www.facebook.com/tommykraftfilms/posts/1133891623340104

"Prelude to Axanar raised over $100,000 and reportedly had a budget of $80,000. According to their numbers, $14,000 was spent on visual effects, another $2,159.03 on additional post production costs, $7,000 on salaries, $10,191.16 on soundstage and rental staff, and much more. I never saw a penny of this."

Sounds like they made plenty profit on the Prelude, and tried to write it off as "Spent on production". Funny how someone who did most of the visual effects and notes that it was mostly green screen/CG, and to top it off, they went unpaid on their work.... I would say that the film makers definitely made money from the project. It would be a shame if this went to court and people like this took the stand against Axanar.

 

[asalaw]

"Prelude to Axanar raised over $100,000 and reportedly had a budget of $80,000. According to their numbers, $14,000 was spent on visual effects, another $2,159.03 on additional post production costs, $7,000 on salaries, $10,191.16 on soundstage and rental staff, and much more. I never saw a penny of this."

Sounds like they made plenty profit on the Prelude, and tried to write it off as "Spent on production". Funny how someone who did most of the visual effects and notes that it was mostly green screen/CG, and to top it off, they went unpaid on their work.... I would say that the film makers definitely made money from the project. It would be a shame if this went to court and people like this took the stand against Axanar.

It wouldn't even take that long. It would come out in discovery when the studios inspect Axanar's financial records (or lack of them, if that's the case) and depose the key players. Absent a post-discovery settlement, it would all come out in the summary judgment motion. In fact, the more I think about it, the less I believe that this would ever even get to trial, given just the strength of their public statements and disclosures as evidence of willful infringement. I think CBS/Pmnt would win on summary judgment.

 

[mistymills]

The fact that they drew salaries is damning enough that this was a project for financial gain. The rule hasn't been for the project to be labeled as not-for-profit but for there to be no financial gain at all.

 

[asalaw]

The fact that they drew salaries is damning enough that this was a project for financial gain. The rule hasn't been for the project to be labeled as not-for-profit but for there to be no financial gain at all.

Especially if it looks like you're trying to do some sneaky end run around the unwritten rules, and this does, in spades.

 

[Riceball]

"Prelude to Axanar raised over $100,000 and reportedly had a budget of $80,000. According to their numbers, $14,000 was spent on visual effects, another $2,159.03 on additional post production costs, $7,000 on salaries, $10,191.16 on soundstage and rental staff, and much more. I never saw a penny of this."

Sounds like they made plenty profit on the Prelude, and tried to write it off as "Spent on production". Funny how someone who did most of the visual effects and notes that it was mostly green screen/CG, and to top it off, they went unpaid on their work.... I would say that the film makers definitely made money from the project. It would be a shame if this went to court and people like this took the stand against Axanar.

Just because it was done on a green screen with CG doesn't necessarily mean that it's cheap. It may or may not be cheaper than practical but definitely cheaper is not a given, you still have to pay for the people who do the work and then render time is typically factored in as well. Sometimes CG is used because it's easier or more practical to use than a practical effect or elaborate sound stage.

 

[Moviefreak]

Just because it was done on a green screen with CG doesn't necessarily mean that it's cheap. It may or may not be cheaper than practical but definitely cheaper is not a given, you still have to pay for the people who do the work and then render time is typically factored in as well. Sometimes CG is used because it's easier or more practical to use than a practical effect or elaborate sound stage.

Yes... But the person who did the effects/compositing/final rendering said they did the work on their own computer and did the effects and rendering over a weekend FOR NO PAY? I would say something smells fishy. They didn't get a paycheck or reimbursement for their computer being used. While I know CG can cost a lot, in this case it sounds like they padded costs about salaries and such in their statements when the people involved are stating a different story.

 

[mistymills]

We do all our own CG rendering and modeling and stuff and the guy who does it doesn't get paid. But that's because NONE of us get paid. We all walked into it knowing full well that we'd be working our butts off for no pay, shelling out money for the project in fact, and we were fine with it.

However, I have walked away from projects where there were salaries and I was told I would be expected to work unpaid. Nope. Not happening. It's ridiculous. Especially when once I was outright told that something was a paying project only to be told 'Well I want you to work on this really bad and you're perfect for it, but only if you work for no pay.' If they can afford something like $35,000 for a salary for a girl to mail things out, they afford to pay the guy who does the VFX.

 

[Riceball]

Yes... But the person who did the effects/compositing/final rendering said they did the work on their own computer and did the effects and rendering over a weekend FOR NO PAY? I would say something smells fishy. They didn't get a paycheck or reimbursement for their computer being used. While I know CG can cost a lot, in this case it sounds like they padded costs about salaries and such in their statements when the people involved are stating a different story.

It sounds like they simply included what they would have paid into their figures, but that definitely isn't honest bookkeeping. If you didn't pay for it then it isn't an expense, even if it's accounted for in the budget.

 

[Alan Castillo]

This is going to be my ONLY post on the following, and I am NOT going to reply to any comments on it.

Not because I'd be 'scared to' (all those who have known me for years on end know that would not be the case), but because I do NOT want to get into heated arguments with my fellow board members on this board I love so much.

/disclaimer

There are many here who have strong feelings one way or the other on this subject.

I haven't posted much in this thread for the simple reason that there is one huge trumpeting elephant here that NOBODY has pointed out : Alec Peters' role in all this mess. Unfortunately, IMO, one cannot fully discuss the lawsuit / situation, without linking it personally to him.

If you wish to discuss this matter, I would please ask you take it elsewhere so as not to ruin this thread.

As I said, irrespective of your personal points of view vis-a-vis that man, please do not turn this into an event here on the RPF that will cause nothing but divides.

Furthermore, Alec Peters is banned from here, and it's not right to discuss him in a place where he can't respond.

Personally, in order to avoid this, I have been posting here for the past few months on this Axanar matter.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/CBSvsAxanar/

Warning : it is a very anti-Axanar / Alec Peters page, but has a VAST wealth of information that may be able shed light / clarify any matters that you may be wondering about. Get past the pointless rants from a few, and there is much deep discussion on a very wide variety of subjects.

No need to join to see the posts. It's a public group.

My own personal rant on the group, for joining the group is here

http://alancastillo.com/Axanar

 

[Alan Castillo]

And for an emotional-free & comprehensive insight into ALL the details of the WHOLE affair, this is an invaluable source

http://axamonitor.com/doku.php

 

[brandomack]

http://alancastillo.com/Axanar

Very eloquently put, Alan. Thank you for that.

 

[The Terminator]

We do all our own CG rendering and modeling and stuff and the guy who does it doesn't get paid. But that's because NONE of us get paid. We all walked into it knowing full well that we'd be working our butts off for no pay, shelling out money for the project in fact, and we were fine with it.

Which is exactly what a "fanfilm" is supposed to be in order to sometimes get to break the law.

 

[asalaw]

I haven't posted much in this thread for the simple reason that there is one huge trumpeting elephant here that NOBODY has pointed out : Alec Peters' role in all this mess. Unfortunately, IMO, one cannot fully discuss the lawsuit / situation, without linking it personally to him.

Whatever it is that drove AP to poke the bear is less important than the fact that he did. It's done now, and events have now moved way past that. The problem with focusing on who did what and why is that you have to look backward to do it. You can't see the road ahead if you're looking behind you.

What matters now is how this plays out, what this ends up costing him and those who helped him, and what this means for Trek fan films in the future.

 

[mistymills]

I agree, but you can't really dismiss his role in all of it. It is, however, just one part of a massive disaster.

 

[asalaw]

I agree, but you can't really dismiss his role in all of it. It is, however, just one part of a massive disaster.

Not dismissing anything; just a question of priorities and focus. All I'm saying is that time spent reviewing who's to blame is not very productive when it comes to understanding the future of Trek fan films.

 

[mistymills]

The reason it is of importance is because of three things:

1. His history within the Trek community
2. His having the 'ear' of people in charge of some aspects of Trek fan stuff (not just films/series, but collectables, websites, etc.)
3. His statements while fundraising of being connected to people at the studio for discussions, etc implies to the general public that he is a special case scenario.

 

[Apollo]

Exactly this happened strictly because of who he is and how he handled things,

I agree, but you can't really dismiss his role in all of it. It is, however, just one part of a massive disaster.

 

[asalaw]

I don't disagree with you guys at all. I agree completely that his character and actions brought all this about. A blind man can see that.

But what bearing at all does that have on what CBS/Pmt are going to do about Axanar? Zero. They don't give a rat's ass whether he's a Nazi or a Nazi used car salesman. They want to protect their IP, no matter who threatens it, or why.

And since we know it's all his fault, what's the point belaboring it? How does that get us to a place where we can make more fan films? Learning lessons from mistakes is one thing, but focusing on the person is missing the forest for the trees.

When the kicker shows up drunk, you don't beat him up for 60 minutes. You get another kicker and play the damn game.

 

[Treadwell]

If the kicker's actions not only cancels the game but the also entire league, then yeah, you beat him up for ever and ever.

 

[asalaw]

If the kicker's actions not only cancels the game but the also entire league, then yeah, you beat him up for ever and ever.

But that hasn't happened yet, has it? That's just an assumption.

In any case, what you're talking about is retribution (or justice if you prefer) after the fact. And again, it does nothing to further discussion of the case.

That's the point of the hypothetical. So if you like, I'll change the facts slightly to clarify the point:

If your kicker commits a severe rules infraction that threatens to disqualify the team from the entire season, and maybe even expel the team from the league altogether, but that won't be determined till after the end of the season, do you spend the next four quarters beating him up? No, you replace him and play the damn game. Because in the end, your league status might turn out just fine, and right now, you've got a game to play.

All I'm saying is, in this thread, why don't we keep our eye on the ball? Let the beatings happen over in the FaceBook locker room, where they belong.