Avatar reviews - Attention : spoilers

[Birdie]

I think Cameron painted an unrealistic extreme future for drama's sake and kicked humanity in the nuts to do so.

It's funny how no-one seems to complain about the countless sci-fi novels and movies portraying dystopian futures on our own planet.

Try reading 1984 or Farenheit 451 if you really want sci-fi with a downer on the human condition.

My guess is you guys bitching about the 'anti-human' message are are just right-wing 'hippy-haters' who couldn't bear the tree-hugging philosophy of the movie.

And damn, it's getting old..

Happy New Year and god bless all those humanitarian Oil corporations out there.

 

[CessnaDriver]

It's funny how no-one seems to complain about the countless sci-fi novels and movies portraying dystopian futures on our own planet.

Try reading 1984 or Farenheit 451 if you really want sci-fi with a downer on the human condition.

My guess is you guys bitching about the 'anti-human' message are are just right-wing 'hippy-haters' who couldn't bear the tree-hugging philosophy of the movie.

And damn, it's getting old..

Happy New Year and god bless all those humanitarian Oil corporations out there.

Oh I know fully well it's been a staple of sci fi for decades and longer, hell look at some of HG Wells stuff.

But if anything is getting old isn't it that?

I understand, for drama's sake, perahps it's almost required I suppose.
I don't know. Perhaps it is what we have come to expect from "the future". What does that say about us if such dire visions of the future appeal so much? They cease to be warnings, and simply become a given inevitability.


No, I don't support hug a tree thinking. That message doesn't help me along to enjoy such stories.
I do support conserve a forest, harvest another, and plant even more.
Too realistic an approach I know for a fairy tale film.


I would ask, what does Big Hollywood do with it's Avatar profits?

 

[cboath]

I just don't think or have reason to believe that things are so negative we will attempt to rape sentient aliens entire planets in the future, even if they don't have heat rays and ray guns.


I don't think that makes me pollyannaishly optimistic.

I think Cameron painted an unrealistic extreme future for drama's sake and kicked humanity in the nuts to do so.

Even meeting half way would have quieted my gripes... some. LOL

And yes, sincerely happy new year indeed!

That's a little more to it, they weren't raping the whole planet of pandora. There was a huge deposit of the ore under where one particular tribe of like maybe 1000 people lived. The corporation couldn't convince them to move 5 miles away.

To put it into today's terms, do you have any doubt whatsover that if a small town of, say, 500 people in Wyoming lived on top of 10 billion barrels of oil and they refused to move for someone like Exxon, that Exxon wouldn't pay off the govt to get them kicked out via emminent domain? Those people would be told, your house is worth 450,000. Here's 500k and you have until this date to get out. The govt wouldn't stand up for those people and the corporation wouldn't say 'oh well'. The people wouldn't get squat and wouldn't be entitle to squat of the resources because in all likelihood they belong to the state of Wyoming and not the homeowner. On top of that, my guess is you wouldn't find many outlets up in arms over the story either. It's probably be 'A' story, but not a giant one.

I'd bet some african towns/tribes/whatever got kicked out of their lands for diamond and gold mines. What was it, 1,000,000 chinese got evicted for a damn project? We do it to our own people still, what would we not do it to an alien species we thought was primitive?

 

[agent5]

Saw it today in 3D and I must say that the hype got to me in a big way with this one. It just wasn't up to the expectations of so many I've read here. It was okay and nothing short of what I expected the fx would be like but the 3D was also just okay. Very spacial and even annoyingly so at times, but not too much really jumped out at you. I was expecting more across the board. The story was by far the weekest element. It WAS Dances With Wolves in space with aliens instead of Indians.

 

[Birdie]

I would ask, what does Big Hollywood do with it's Avatar profits?

yeah, palms will get crossed with silver, but maybe the idea that big budget, ceative original movies can make money over the remakes, sequels and all out garbage. We can only hope.

In the meantime, in a world where genocide is still being practiced daily, I'm not gonna get myself worked upm over a movie that portrays us as the bad guys.

 

[CessnaDriver]

That's a little more to it, they weren't raping the whole planet of pandora. There was a huge deposit of the ore under where one particular tribe of like maybe 1000 people lived. The corporation couldn't convince them to move 5 miles away.

To put it into today's terms, do you have any doubt whatsover that if a small town of, say, 500 people in Wyoming lived on top of 10 billion barrels of oil and they refused to move for someone like Exxon, that Exxon wouldn't pay off the govt to get them kicked out via emminent domain? Those people would be told, your house is worth 450,000. Here's 500k and you have until this date to get out. The govt wouldn't stand up for those people and the corporation wouldn't say 'oh well'. The people wouldn't get squat and wouldn't be entitle to squat of the resources because in all likelihood they belong to the state of Wyoming and not the homeowner. On top of that, my guess is you wouldn't find many outlets up in arms over the story either. It's probably be 'A' story, but not a giant one.

I'd bet some african towns/tribes/whatever got kicked out of their lands for diamond and gold mines. What was it, 1,000,000 chinese got evicted for a damn project? We do it to our own people still, what would we not do it to an alien species we thought was primitive?

Emminant domain laws exist in the United States for things that must be done I know. But we don't send in Harriers and M1 Abrams and kill thousands to build a freeway or build a damn.

 

[cboath]

You don't think china would have sent the military had those people refused to move? They sent the military into freaking Tibet because they didn't like their attitudes...They threaten to send the military to Taiwan anytime they might do something they don't like. We might not use the military to evict the theoretical town in wyoming, but it doesn't mean as a species we would not longer do it. I expect private armies do it from time to time in africa. Venezuela used the military to kick out all the foreign oil companies who wouldn't basically sign over the lions share of their profits to them. Same basic thing.

It's done all the time.

And if the theoretical Wyomans (??) refuse to leave even after being told by the courts to go, what happens? The police (people with guns) come to kick you out. Not necessarily the military opening fire - but they'd still be forcibly removed.

What if the Chinese refused to leave, with a million of them, they'd be formidable force?
What if the oil companies didn't give in to Venezuela's ego-manical whack job?
What if the african tribes didn't vacate for the mining companies?

In all three cases the military likely opens fire to kick out what the powers that be want. Not in one single scenario would the powers that be say, oh well, we give up. They pull out the big sticks and have at it because they know they can't lose.

We are more than capable of doing it today.

 

[CessnaDriver]

yeah, palms will get crossed with silver, but maybe the idea that big budget, ceative original movies can make money over the remakes, sequels and all out garbage. We can only hope.

In the meantime, in a world where genocide is still being practiced daily, I'm not gonna get myself worked upm over a movie that portrays us as the bad guys.

Obviously I agree, I am not equating criticism of a mere movie with something to get worked up over on par with any existing ills in the world.
I would like to think I have contributed in small ways to make the world better. Perhaps that is why I tire of negative futures so often portrayed. Millions of acts of kindness and love are done daily too, nearly all of the human race didn't kill anyone today.


Sagan talked about needing positive visions too.
They seem few and far between though don't they?

 

[Nwerke]

The story was by far the weekest element. It WAS Dances With Wolves in space with aliens instead of Indians.

Yes. What part of that hasn't been said here over and over?

 

[Carson Dyle]

I would ask, what does Big Hollywood do with it's Avatar profits?

20th Century Fox is owned by Rupert Murdoch, so draw your own conclusions.

I somehow doubt the money will be used to plant a forest.



BTW, "humanity" doesn't take a kit from Avatar. The hero, although gifted with a host alien body in exchange for his damaged human one, is still a human being in all the ways that matter. Far from betraying the human race he redeems it by defying those who would corrupt it.

The swipes Cameron takes are aimed at greedy corporations and morally-challenged mercenaries, not "humanity." If not for that humanity, the N'avi would have been obliterated.

 

[Nwerke]

There was no straw that broke the camel's back - one side had zero interest in making a deal and the rich and powerful (humans) decided they'll just take it because they're simply entitled to have anything they want.

There was one, which Grace referenced when she was yelling at Parker - "people don't like you when you use machineguns on them". Some soldiers shot up some Na'vi, which was why her school was closed down.

Cessna, I'm with the others who say this IS realistic behaviour for a corporation. Particularly given that Earth is collapsing and the humans are becoming absolutely desperate. RDA stands for Resources Development Alliance, and it has a manifest to basically plunder as much as it can, as fast as it can. Again, it's from the backstory, but RDA is more or less allowed anything short of WMDs.

I wish they'd kept the Earth scenes at the beginning from the scriptment, they really rammed home just how bad things are on Earth.

 

[CessnaDriver]

You don't think china would have sent the military had those people refused to move? They sent the military into freaking Tibet because they didn't like their attitudes...They threaten to send the military to Taiwan anytime they might do something they don't like. We might not use the military to evict the theoretical town in wyoming, but it doesn't mean as a species we would not longer do it. I expect private armies do it from time to time in africa. Venezuela used the military to kick out all the foreign oil companies who wouldn't basically sign over the lions share of their profits to them. Same basic thing.

It's done all the time.

And if the theoretical Wyomans (??) refuse to leave even after being told by the courts to go, what happens? The police (people with guns) come to kick you out. Not necessarily the military opening fire - but they'd still be forcibly removed.

What if the Chinese refused to leave, with a million of them, they'd be formidable force?
What if the oil companies didn't give in to Venezuela's ego-manical whack job?
What if the african tribes didn't vacate for the mining companies?

In all three cases the military likely opens fire to kick out what the powers that be want. Not in one single scenario would the powers that be say, oh well, we give up. They pull out the big sticks and have at it because they know they can't lose.

We are more than capable of doing it today.

Yeah were capable, and I wont defend the Chi-coms and any truly tyrannical regime. But I seriously doubt that space communists are going to be the dominative space presence of humans and raid populated planets, not when the rest of humanity will be moving out into space at the same time. It is possible as with the former Soviet Union, China will cooperate internationally with the global community on space efforts.

Any "Pandora" is far more likley to meet a very international cross section of humanity that combined together to reach out to those worlds in exploration and peace.


Hell if we get to any kind of point of star travel being possible, humanity is going to be much farther along socially then today.

Cameron mapped 1800's humanity into the future to make his story work.

 

[Nwerke]

Hell if we get to any kind of point of star travel being possible, humanity is going to be much farther along socially then today.

Hey, what? Isn't that exactly the same as the argument that any aliens who may show up here will automatically be benevolent vegan pacifists since they'll be so much more advanced than us?

I'm with Stephen Hawking on that one: if aliens ever show up here, they'll be advanced, all right. So much so that we'd better be prepared for them to accidentally squash us like bugs without even noticing. :lol

 

[cboath]

I agree, it's just that in no way do I think that the way the movie depicted it is impossible based on our current behaviour as a species. I have no idea what's likely to happen in 100 years or so from now. It's just that, now, giant corporations run roughsod over whomever they want and have no respect for those who tell them 'no'. Until that status quo changes - saying everything we do in universe will be benevolent is a very hard sell. Like i said earlier, they whine like little girls about the fact that fighting a possible global warming will cost them money. They don't care they could be screwing over this planet and it's future inhabitants now. What will they do when ruining the planet has no effect on them because it's not their planet? That's how we as a species will be defined at that point.

I'd like to think by then we'll be on a good tract, but given that in my lifetime corporations have just gotten bigger and bigger to the point of being too big to fail - and we're doing nothing about that - and they still are never told no without fear of major reprisal it doesn't give me tons of hope right now.

 

[CessnaDriver]

20th Century Fox is owned by Rupert Murdoch, so draw your own conclusions.

I somehow doubt the money will be used to plant a forest.



BTW, "humanity" doesn't take a kit from Avatar. The hero, although gifted with a host alien body in exchange for his damaged human one, is still a human being in all the ways that matter. Far from betraying the human race he redeems it by defying those who would corrupt it.

The swipes Cameron takes are aimed at greedy corporations and morally-challenged mercenaries, not "humanity." If not for that humanity, the N'avi would have been obliterated.

I've heard Murdoch go on about global warming so don't be too sure. :lol


Well for purpose of this fairy tale yes,
he redeems humanity in the eyes of the viewer who is following this specific hero's journey.

Whether long lasting positive change continues back on Earth???

We don't want to complicate happily ever after of course.

 

[Carson Dyle]

Cameron mapped 1800's humanity into the future to make his story work.

Itchy-fingered mercenaries operating without proper government oversight are alive and well in the 21st century (just Google "Blackwater").

 

[Nwerke]

Itchy-fingered mercenaries operating without proper government oversight are alive and well in the 21st century (just Google "Blackwater").

Google "Blackwater" and "hazing" or "rape", and find out what they do to their own.

 

[CessnaDriver]

Itchy-fingered mercenaries operating without proper government oversight are alive and well in the 21st century (just Google "Blackwater").

If they were contracted to go into pristine jungles and slay innocent Indians for mahogany wood, then the comparison would be there.

I mean there will always be military contract work.

They don't start the wars.

 

[tripoli]

Got to see it today with Outlander watching it on an IMAX screen in 3D.

First, I thought the movie screen play and story in itself was pretty outstanding. Walking out, I was really thinking it as some what of a "Dances with Wolves" on another planet story. It had that in depth scope and plot message.

The effects were incredible, it really drew me in without seeming to overwhelm too much with the dimensional effects. After about 15 minutes, I really adjusted to watching it as I would any out door scene in person. Given the dense background imaging, even when the computerized graphics were evident, the whole screen look blended it all together well.

Its a film I would like to see again and will look for the DVD when it comes out. I was very skeptical of what the 3D films would view like, after this, I am much more looking forward to seeing what future films can take advantage of with these effects.

 

[Probe Droid]

Haven't read the entire thread, so firgive if this is a repeat question. My 9-yr-old is asking to see this, is it appropriate for him? How's teh violence level, etc.?