ANH Hero DL-44 Discussion - Three ANH Greeblies Found
- Thread starter deadbolt
- Start date
I see that mystery disk as well for sure. This is also one if your pictures kpax you shared a while ago detailing the same info. I think it’s very helpful in what you are saying. Here are some pictures I’ve gathered that shows the top/bottom of the disk is some better light as well. You can make out the edges?
Yes you can definitely see the top edge cut into the mauser 100%. Thats indisputable I think at this point? 
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Vanitas
Sr Member
Trouble is, we still have the pre-production images of the hero prop showing no mystery disc or brazed disc on the other side... So if that little mark on the cast stunt blaster is indeed a remnant of the disc (and not just incidental), then it could only have been something like a ridge of glue or some other textural difference in the receiver's body. I don't see why they would braze a disc on the other side when the scope mount was already done on the right side.
Is it possible the mystery disk was simply purely cosmetic? Lightly milled into the side. Strange maybe but so is the mystery
Vanitas
Sr Member
I really can't imagine that the mystery disc was milled into the side of the magwell, and if it was then I would have expected it to look much cleaner that it does in all of the known images. That just seems unlikely to have been done to the gun by the Star Wars prop department, especially on the first movie where everything was cheap and practical (not to mention it would potentially jeopardize the functionality of the gun if they went too deep, etc).
An example of a milled mystery disc, from one of Scott's old videos. Note how the face of the 'disc' is very clean and uniform.
The only things that really make sense to me are that it was any of the following:
1. a silver sticker
2. a remnant of a greeblie where the glue stripped the bluing
3. a remnant of a greeblie where the glue tripped the bluing AND the gun/lower was painted (resulting in the "ridge")
An example of a milled mystery disc, from one of Scott's old videos. Note how the face of the 'disc' is very clean and uniform.
The only things that really make sense to me are that it was any of the following:
1. a silver sticker
2. a remnant of a greeblie where the glue stripped the bluing
3. a remnant of a greeblie where the glue tripped the bluing AND the gun/lower was painted (resulting in the "ridge")
Here’s just another perspective on the same mysterious subject. It certainly looks to line up..
For what it’s worth I didn’t use the disk to line up those blasters but the slide above it..
EDIT: this part..
EDIT: this part..
I don't tend think it was milled in, though that little highlight on the bottom edge does make it a possibility. Whatever was there, I believe that it left a mark. I haven't handled a lot of real guns, but I've glued a crap-ton of stuff in my life, and can't imagine what sort of adhesive would actually strip the bluing off of the lower, especially so completely, but leaving that dot in the middle.
I'm kind of at a loss, but I do think the stunt blaster was cast from the hero lower, and it seems likely to me that the upper and lower stayed together. I also think I see the marks from the left mounted scope on the stunt and hero. So much "I think" in this argh!
I'm kind of at a loss, but I do think the stunt blaster was cast from the hero lower, and it seems likely to me that the upper and lower stayed together. I also think I see the marks from the left mounted scope on the stunt and hero. So much "I think" in this argh!
kpax
Sr Member
I watched a "making of" SW video a while ago and they mentioned using epoxy and crazy glue, both of which can take off or disfigure bluing.
Found this from a gunsmithing thread...
Found this from a gunsmithing thread...
Re: Best way to remove epoxy residue from receiver
90% of the epoxy is off, but there is a "whitish" residue (discolored blue?), on the receiver. If the blue has been permanently discolored I may just polish the receiver top, mask, and Oxphoblue it. I'll give it a try with heat, chemical, and may try some Flitz on the "white".
Wow. Why do I feel dumb now, not having thought to look around on gun boards for this sort of thing?? "Stripping off" bluing is unlikely, but I can definitely see staining/discoloring. Yousa so smartay! I do recall that epoxies used to be a lot funkier than now, and the switch from epoxy to CA for some stuff was a big deal on the model builders side. Ok, who's got an antique gun they're willing to experiment on?
This could potentially account for the discoloration near the scallop on the upper left, I think you're on to something.
This could potentially account for the discoloration near the scallop on the upper left, I think you're on to something.
kpax
Sr Member
It is a dilemma.
I did crazy glue something on a gun once...
It DID damage the bluing....
and anything acidic, like vinegar, will remove/damage bluing.
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Vanitas
Sr Member
I have also had super glue strip bluing off of steel parts before, although it was only cold bluing (Birchwood Casey). Real C96s were blued in two different ways; a rust blue from the start of production until about the early 700,000 serial range, or a salt blue from the 700,000 range until the end of production. Rust blued guns have a blue/black matte finish, while salt blued guns have a shiny black finish.
Both these finishes are MUCH tougher than a cold bluing finish (which is more of a thin surface layer), and I don't know if either of them would be as directly susceptible to various glues/adhesives.
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Davy Jones
Sr Member
I'm not as expert as many here but I've always been fascinated by how much discussion there has been about this "disc"
It's clearly not milled in. The curved lines being discussed here are raised remnants of glue from where a greeblie was once glued in the same style as the Merr Sonn.
The ESB resin castings are full castings of Han's pistol. Every little detail confirms this. Check the wood grip details.
The one thing I'd like to know is if that mold was made for ESB or whether they made it for ANH and made a bunch of holster stuffers?
With my first hand examination of several original castings, I can't determine if there is anything dimensional to that black mark in the center of the "disc". But there may be something like what has been pointed out above.
It's clearly not milled in. The curved lines being discussed here are raised remnants of glue from where a greeblie was once glued in the same style as the Merr Sonn.
The ESB resin castings are full castings of Han's pistol. Every little detail confirms this. Check the wood grip details.
The one thing I'd like to know is if that mold was made for ESB or whether they made it for ANH and made a bunch of holster stuffers?
With my first hand examination of several original castings, I can't determine if there is anything dimensional to that black mark in the center of the "disc". But there may be something like what has been pointed out above.
kpax
Sr Member
REVISED Here is a theory to consider.
The promo images of Leia with the MerrSonn suggest the at least one mold was made I "assume" prior to filming.
Not sure if discussed before or new info but I have been studying the images a bit and am pretty sure the mold for the MerrSonn(s) was made prior to brazing on the right side crossbar mounting disks. Meaning they cast the 2813 C96 with bull barrel and preproduction lower before they added the scope mount to the right side. It is the same lower IMO. Pretty dang sure.
So they either had or made up additional bull barrel c96(s) other than the NR version since we all tend to agree the bevels and lower do not match the ANH blaster.
Carl from Bapty said... He "showed the gun(s) to George", he liked the gun but wanted changes. He took it back and added the FH.
He said: The gun was already cut (barrel) * They had 4...effed up for firing (black fire). Does this mean 4 c96 with bull barrels? OR just 4 that could fire blanks?
1- Naked Runner (1967) - Left side -2 mounts - barrel lock (not a match) Different safety
2- Randall and Hopkirk (Deceased) (1969) - ROUGH milling very visible. ( 2813 HERO upper)
3-Sitting Target (1972)- left side 1 mount - HERO mount and scope
4- The Protectors (1972-74) - right side 2 mounts - not sure if bull barrel - possible lower - maybe the PS lower?
5 -The Sweeney (1975) - left side 2 mounts - - no visible barrel lock - Possible upper and lower.
My speculated chronological order:
According to Bapty, they had 4 c96's with "cut" or bull barrels and or fired blanks. Nothing else. NR, R&H/Sweeney, ST and The Protectors
On George's request Carl adds the FH to one of the scoped bull barreled guns and brings it back to George.
The prop dept. makes a mold with the scope off of course. (MerrSonn) 2 left side disks and NO right side mounts... yet...
After some playing with the HERO...George thinks the NR type scope and mount is TOO big and uncool and remembers the Sitting Target scope version... much cooler. but they don't want the full auto 712.
George likes the idea but suddenly realizes Right-handed Harrison Ford can't holster it like a cowboy with the left side mount... CRAP!
Carl says, "no problem", I'll put the ST scope and mount on the 2813 c96. ( Likely Sweeney)
Carl de-brazes the Sweeney lower taking off the two left side mounts and adds the brazed discs and crossbar to right side.
He cleans up the left side and re-blues the lower... leaving some marks. After heating to debraze the lower would need refinishing IMO.
**Maybe Carl added the crossbar to "center the mount" for better balance and to fit in the holster. A forward mount would have left a lot of gun out above the holster. Also may have been a function issue if brazed over the trigger group.
This is the logical way Bapty would have sent out the hero prop to LucasFilm. Apparently the pre production images are Baptys continuity images.
George Loves it! but wants some more doodads on it and has the prop department glue on a few plastic bits like the grill and sight antenna and mystery knob disk and maybe coil on the rail.
Viola! The production DL44...
Just guessing but it is likely the HERO blaster was put together as seen in the Ford outdoor images and he test fired the blanks out there.
The image of Ford turning with a surprised look on his face and blaster pointing up is prob just after he took his first shot. He looks shocked. Likely this is where most of the antenna sight broke off. Right side antenna is still "long-ish" in that pic but the rest is gone. The mystery knob and other greebles also broke off at this time.
I am surprised the grill managed to sty on! Although the top section is broken more in some images if I remember correctly.
So what about the PS version...
They "may have" made another (different) T mount and crossbar and added it to the PS 9415 c96 as a backup ... but the modern-clean looking parkerized FH make me doubt it. Also no signs of adding the grill or sight or MD disc. so...
Maybe, ...just maybe, when they started ESB production they went to get the old ANH blaster from Bapty and they had either taken it apart already or it finally broke all the way and had to be destroyed?
So Carl had to make another one up with one of the other "effed up guns" he had with a cut Bull Barrel... the PS 9415- but he had lost or broken the ANH mount so he had to make another. Not exact, - different attachment, no dovetail. Not important to him...he didn't have the plastic parts anymore. The mount and crossbar look "good" Steel parts, well made. It would match well enough... but without the FH. Maybe he didn't have a vintage one. ?
Carl presents it to George and prop dept. They say, we don't have those plastic parts anymore either. And where is the FH ?! Dilemma.
Ford comes in. "Hey guys, I don't want to shoot that thing again. I'm scared of it. It's too loud and flashy!
The prop dept. scrap the ANH style blaster and decide to use MGCs and change the design to the ESB type blasters.
So...
...the PS gun is not the original ANH DL44.... But it "could be" the one we see in the bunker... maybe. No sign of mystery disk on the bunker gun either. They throw a weird FH on it and put the scope on backwards... WHY? Who knows...
Now in 2019, Tony Watts (Bapty) finds the 9415 c96 that they had "made for" SW with crossbar, mount and original scope... but no FH or plastic grill OR mystery disk... It IS a prop "made for" SW but not screen used...
Hey Carl! Find and fit a new FH on that thing. They are making nice reproductions out there, and lets try to sell it!
So it may be a real blaster made for SW production, but NOT the/an original screen used blaster for ANH... maybe for ESB deleted bunker scene.
*The Protectors gun is a "possible match" for the lower...but due to later SW images without right side mount on the lower (MerrSonn casting) I don't think it can be logically -
but it could be the PS/bunker version!
See proof image for same lowers below. The long barrel Merrsonn has the same marks and the other side has details that match as well.
Something like that...
If this isn't the real true history of the ANH DL44... it should be... ; )
The promo images of Leia with the MerrSonn suggest the at least one mold was made I "assume" prior to filming.
Not sure if discussed before or new info but I have been studying the images a bit and am pretty sure the mold for the MerrSonn(s) was made prior to brazing on the right side crossbar mounting disks. Meaning they cast the 2813 C96 with bull barrel and preproduction lower before they added the scope mount to the right side. It is the same lower IMO. Pretty dang sure.
So they either had or made up additional bull barrel c96(s) other than the NR version since we all tend to agree the bevels and lower do not match the ANH blaster.
Carl from Bapty said... He "showed the gun(s) to George", he liked the gun but wanted changes. He took it back and added the FH.
He said: The gun was already cut (barrel) * They had 4...effed up for firing (black fire). Does this mean 4 c96 with bull barrels? OR just 4 that could fire blanks?
1- Naked Runner (1967) - Left side -2 mounts - barrel lock (not a match) Different safety
2- Randall and Hopkirk (Deceased) (1969) - ROUGH milling very visible. ( 2813 HERO upper)
3-Sitting Target (1972)- left side 1 mount - HERO mount and scope
4- The Protectors (1972-74) - right side 2 mounts - not sure if bull barrel - possible lower - maybe the PS lower?
5 -The Sweeney (1975) - left side 2 mounts - - no visible barrel lock - Possible upper and lower.
My speculated chronological order:
According to Bapty, they had 4 c96's with "cut" or bull barrels and or fired blanks. Nothing else. NR, R&H/Sweeney, ST and The Protectors
On George's request Carl adds the FH to one of the scoped bull barreled guns and brings it back to George.
The prop dept. makes a mold with the scope off of course. (MerrSonn) 2 left side disks and NO right side mounts... yet...
After some playing with the HERO...George thinks the NR type scope and mount is TOO big and uncool and remembers the Sitting Target scope version... much cooler. but they don't want the full auto 712.
George likes the idea but suddenly realizes Right-handed Harrison Ford can't holster it like a cowboy with the left side mount... CRAP!
Carl says, "no problem", I'll put the ST scope and mount on the 2813 c96. ( Likely Sweeney)
Carl de-brazes the Sweeney lower taking off the two left side mounts and adds the brazed discs and crossbar to right side.
He cleans up the left side and re-blues the lower... leaving some marks. After heating to debraze the lower would need refinishing IMO.
**Maybe Carl added the crossbar to "center the mount" for better balance and to fit in the holster. A forward mount would have left a lot of gun out above the holster. Also may have been a function issue if brazed over the trigger group.
This is the logical way Bapty would have sent out the hero prop to LucasFilm. Apparently the pre production images are Baptys continuity images.
George Loves it! but wants some more doodads on it and has the prop department glue on a few plastic bits like the grill and sight antenna and mystery knob disk and maybe coil on the rail.
Viola! The production DL44...
Just guessing but it is likely the HERO blaster was put together as seen in the Ford outdoor images and he test fired the blanks out there.
The image of Ford turning with a surprised look on his face and blaster pointing up is prob just after he took his first shot. He looks shocked. Likely this is where most of the antenna sight broke off. Right side antenna is still "long-ish" in that pic but the rest is gone. The mystery knob and other greebles also broke off at this time.
I am surprised the grill managed to sty on! Although the top section is broken more in some images if I remember correctly.
So what about the PS version...
They "may have" made another (different) T mount and crossbar and added it to the PS 9415 c96 as a backup ... but the modern-clean looking parkerized FH make me doubt it. Also no signs of adding the grill or sight or MD disc. so...
Maybe, ...just maybe, when they started ESB production they went to get the old ANH blaster from Bapty and they had either taken it apart already or it finally broke all the way and had to be destroyed?
So Carl had to make another one up with one of the other "effed up guns" he had with a cut Bull Barrel... the PS 9415- but he had lost or broken the ANH mount so he had to make another. Not exact, - different attachment, no dovetail. Not important to him...he didn't have the plastic parts anymore. The mount and crossbar look "good" Steel parts, well made. It would match well enough... but without the FH. Maybe he didn't have a vintage one. ?
Carl presents it to George and prop dept. They say, we don't have those plastic parts anymore either. And where is the FH ?! Dilemma.
Ford comes in. "Hey guys, I don't want to shoot that thing again. I'm scared of it. It's too loud and flashy!
The prop dept. scrap the ANH style blaster and decide to use MGCs and change the design to the ESB type blasters.
So...
...the PS gun is not the original ANH DL44.... But it "could be" the one we see in the bunker... maybe. No sign of mystery disk on the bunker gun either. They throw a weird FH on it and put the scope on backwards... WHY? Who knows...
Now in 2019, Tony Watts (Bapty) finds the 9415 c96 that they had "made for" SW with crossbar, mount and original scope... but no FH or plastic grill OR mystery disk... It IS a prop "made for" SW but not screen used...
Hey Carl! Find and fit a new FH on that thing. They are making nice reproductions out there, and lets try to sell it!
So it may be a real blaster made for SW production, but NOT the/an original screen used blaster for ANH... maybe for ESB deleted bunker scene.
*The Protectors gun is a "possible match" for the lower...but due to later SW images without right side mount on the lower (MerrSonn casting) I don't think it can be logically -
but it could be the PS/bunker version!
See proof image for same lowers below. The long barrel Merrsonn has the same marks and the other side has details that match as well.
Something like that...
If this isn't the real true history of the ANH DL44... it should be... ; )
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kpax
Sr Member
Very well could be. When I found those details many years ago I thought that as well. Still very well could be. But the Mystery disc is bigger than the pulleys. Why not use the same pulley disc?
...and why is it silver.. or shiny?
Not milled, still flat but silver shiny...
still a mystery...
But the upper edge "looks" like it is cuts into or touches the relief line below the rail. Could be just glue... it's very close but the "silver" rides UP the edge showing some "depth" at the very top if that makes sense.
To be clear I don't think the disc is milled into the mag well. But the disk could be a "clean up" flat spot for a brazed on disk.
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Davy Jones
Sr Member
Its not cut in, its just a raised line. In person in looks like an eyelash got into the mold.
Davy Jones
Sr Member
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