ANH Hero DL-44 Discussion - Three ANH Greeblies Found

kpax

Sr Member
Not sure if this one has been posted or not, but it clearly shows the warm color of the Mauser steel and not a cooler silver like a sticker or anything. I think all evidence shows this was the result of a greeblie which popped off after the gun was misted with black paint.
Good info. Thanks.
Could very well be. I always said they would look in the bottom of the holster for the broken off knob!

The castings are terrible. Very rough and may not tell the whole story. But I understand your description of the eyelash. I think I remember something like that from long ago ! ; )

But different angles reflect different colors and intensity.

Unfortunately the Mauser looks black in some images and gun blue in others. Most in my opinion. The post production images look like a blued gun to my eye. A distinct color difference between the gun, scope and mount and say the black crossbar and grill. I did a color saturation image a while back and really illustrates the point.

But. Anything is possible.

We shall keep looking!
 

chubsANDdoggers

Sr Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
A little throw back to an early convo as this nice pic by Davy Jones got me searching. Should you be able to see that lock part of the slide here?
A0228702-2494-455A-B459-1AE923EA6C8B.png
 

kpax

Sr Member
The Stunt blaster with the FH looks to be a different mold from the MerrSonn. It has the final right side HERO mounting points.
This casting does have the little chip in the lock tab and HERO grips as mentioned above and the disk remnants.
 

chubsANDdoggers

Sr Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
You mean the little box tab with the chip in it?
It would be behind his thumb in this image.
No. The sight slide lock part or what ever it’s called.. forgive me. You can see it here in this pic. Similar angle. I know this isn’t the same Mauser but the slide is probably similar.
60475E64-E63C-46E1-9367-D21BFDE39D64.png


If lose it would be hanging down regardless but this pic does goes show some nice details. Wouldn’t you see something there??
E2E834D0-6AA9-404C-81AD-75CEA84B2473.png
 
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kpax

Sr Member
Oh. Sight.
You said slide earlier. : )

Yes but the sight stop button on the HERO is set a little deeper and sometimes shows a deep shadow unless the light is direct.

Does look dark in there tho….
 

chubsANDdoggers

Sr Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
Here is a theory to consider.

Just guessing but it is likely the HERO blaster was put together as seen in the Ford outdoor images and he test fired the blanks out there.

The image of Ford turning with a surprised look on his face and blaster pointing up is prob just after he took his first shot. He looks shocked. Likely this is where most of the antenna sight broke off too. Right side antenna is still "long-ish" in that pic but the rest is gone.

The promo images of Leia with the MerrSonn suggest the at least one mold was made I "assume" prior to filming.

Not sure if discussed before or new info but I have been studying the images a bit and am pretty sure the mold for the MerrSonn(s) was made prior to brazing on the right side crossbar mounting disks. Meaning they cast the 2813 C96 with bull barrel and preproduction lower before they added the scope mount to the right side. It is the same lower IMO. Pretty dang sure.

So they either had or made up additional bull barrel c96(s) other than the NR version since we all tend to agree the bevels and lower do not match the ANH blaster.

Carl from Bapty said... He "showed the gun(s) to George", he liked the gun but wanted changes. He took it back and added the FH.

He said: The gun was already cut (barrel) * They had 4...effed up for firing (black fire). Does this mean 4 c96 with bull barrels? OR just 4 that could fire blanks?

1- Naked Runner (1967) - Left side -2 mounts - barrel lock (not a match) Different safety

2- Randall and Hopkirk (Deceased) (1969) - ROUGH milling very visible. ( 2813 HERO upper)

3-Sitting Target (1972)- left side 1 mount - HERO mount and scope

4- The Protectors (1972-74) - right side 2 mounts - not sure if bull barrel - possible lower - maybe the PS lower?

5 -The Sweeney (1975) - left side 2 mounts - - no visible barrel lock - Possible upper and lower.


My speculated chronological order:

According to Bapty, they had 4 c96's with "cut" or bull barrels and or fired blanks. Nothing else. NR, R&H/Sweeney, ST and The Protectors

On George's request Carl adds the FH to one of the scoped bull barreled guns and brings it back to George.

The prop dept. makes a mold with the scope off of course. (MerrSonn) 2 left side disks and NO right side mounts... yet...

After some playing with the HERO...George thinks the NR type scope and mount is TOO big and uncool and remembers the Sitting Target scope version... much cooler. but they don't want the full auto 712.

Carl says, "no problem", I'll put the ST scope and mount on the 2813 c96. ( Likely Sweeney)

Carl de-brazes the Sweeney lower taking off the two left side mounts. The ST mount needs a larger support for the dovetail so Carl brazes on a "mystery sized" disc for the dovetail.

He cleans up the left side and re-blues the lower... leaving some marks.

Carl shows the 2813 with left side mount like the ST gun to George. Same location as ST AND the Mystery Disc.

George likes but suddenly realizes Right-handed Harrison Ford can't holster it like a cowboy with the left side mount... CRAP!

Carl says "no problem" Takes it back. De-brazes the left side mount leaving the Mystery disk and mottled damage. Adds the smaller brazed discs and crossbar to right side.

**Maybe Carl added the crossbar to "center the mount" for better balance and to fit in the holster. A forward mount would have left a lot of gun out above the holster. Also may have been a function issue if brazed over the trigger group.

Before he goes thru the trouble to re- blue the gun AGAIN, ( Carl tends to get impatient) he shows it to George to get the OK first.

George Loves it! Carl says he will refinish it to cover the disk area. George say NO, It looks worn and weird... I like that.!

Viola! The production DL44...

So what about the PS version...

They "may have" made another (different) T mount and crossbar and added it to the PS 9415 c96 as a backup ... but the modern-clean looking parkerized FH make me doubt it. Also no signs of adding the grill or sight or MD disc. so...

Maybe, ...just maybe, when they started ESB production they went to get the old ANH blaster from Bapty and they had either taken it apart already or it finally broke all the way and had to be destroyed?

So Carl had to make another one up with one of the other "effed up guns" he had with a cut Bull Barrel... the PS 9415- but he had lost or broken the ANH mount so he had to make another. Not exact, - different attachment, no dovetail. Not important to him...he didn't have the plastic parts anymore. The mount and crossbar look "good" Steel parts, well made. It would match well enough... but without the FH. Maybe he didn't have a vintage one. ?

Carl presents it to George and prop dept. They say, we don't have those plastic parts anymore either. And where is the FH ?! Dilemma.

Ford comes in. "Hey guys, I don't want to shoot that thing again. I'm scared of it. It's too loud and flashy!

The prop dept. scrap the ANH style blaster and decide to use MGCs and change the design to the ESB type blasters.

So...
...the PS gun is not the original ANH DL44.... But it "could be" the one we see in the bunker... maybe. No sign of mystery disk on the bunker gun either. They throw a weird FH on it and put the scope on backwards... WHY? Who knows...

Now in 2019, Tony Watts (Bapty) finds the 9415 c96 that they had "made for" SW with crossbar, mount and original scope... but no FH or plastic grill OR mystery disk... It IS a prop "made for" SW but not screen used...

Hey Carl! Find and fit a new FH on that thing. They are making nice reproductions out there, and lets try to sell it!

So it may be a real blaster made for SW production, but NOT the/an original screen used blaster for ANH... maybe for ESB deleted bunker scene.

*The Protectors gun is a "possible match" for the lower...but due to later SW images without right side mount on the lower (MerrSonn casting) I don't think it can be logically -

but it could be the PS/bunker version!

See proof image for same lowers below. The long barrel Merrsonn has the same marks and the other side has details that match as well.

Something like that...

If this isn't the real true history of the ANH DL44... it should be... ; )

View attachment 1535951
Love all this! Only thing I’d say is Watts has more than likely had this blaster in his possession since 2017 at the very least but probably well before. And as u mentioned maybe it was missing its FH exactly how you described it. Regardless great write up! (y)
 

Vanitas

Sr Member
The chipping on the magplate cover also screams that the lower (at least) was painted a flat back colour. Most likely I think the entire thing was slopped over with a layer of paint, which selectively wore off on areas like the bolt due to the firing action, and the sight ramp as the slider was moved. As well; the layer of paint explains the "lip" seen around the edge of the mystery disc without it being milled... Unless it really was a silver sticker?? Either way I am convinced it was not milled.

I personally don't believe the Pawn Stars blaster is an "intentional" fake, more that Bapty likely had several bullbarreled C96s and this was one of/the only one they possibly had left in their parts inventory. They clearly had at least some of the real parts (scope/mount caps maybe?), so they likely assembled everything they "thought" was correct and dressed up the rest of the gun using whatever else they had on hand/found so it would look complete for the camera.
 

kpax

Sr Member
The chipping on the magplate cover also screams that the lower (at least) was painted a flat back colour. Most likely I think the entire thing was slopped over with a layer of paint, which selectively wore off on areas like the bolt due to the firing action, and the sight ramp as the slider was moved. As well; the layer of paint explains the "lip" seen around the edge of the mystery disc without it being milled... Unless it really was a silver sticker?? Either way I am convinced it was not milled.

I personally don't believe the Pawn Stars blaster is an "intentional" fake, more that Bapty likely had several bullbarreled C96s and this was one of/the only one they possibly had left in their parts inventory. They clearly had at least some of the real parts (scope/mount caps maybe?), so they likely assembled everything they "thought" was correct and dressed up the rest of the gun using whatever else they had on hand/found so it would look complete for the camera.

Chipping? Not sure what you mean.
Are you referring to the worn bluing on the bottom edges of the magwell and plate? See image example. Very similar. Holster wear.

I still see no conclusive evidence of painting the whole thing. Could have -sure. A thin layer of paint would not have left a visible lip IMO. Not a sticker.

I do not think the disk was milled either. The area shows no sign of real depth...maybe pitting or roughness. Not that it could not have been filled in and filed smooth and refinished. Happens all the time. Just don't believe they would have done this.

The PS is an intentional fake because they claimed it was "the original DL44 from the Star Wars film". "I'm really excited that we have the original blaster pistol used by Harrison Ford in the very first of the Star Wars films."

He produces "proof" showing a nice print of the left side "continuity photograph from the time" " if you look at some of the witness marks on the gun you can see that they match".

COULD there have been a second back-up DL44... sure, as imagined in my timeline above. BUT...

No witness marks on the gun match. Not the serial number or any details except the scope which I believe is original.

Maybe the photo they showed was of the second blaster so the SN# matched? NOPE. It is the same beloved PRE-production HERO image as we have. (see below)

If they compared the serial numbers, and they did, they KNOW it's not the same gun. Sooooo...


And he wants to hang on to the revolver but willing to let the Blaster go?
And the way they bang around the million dollar prop... ; ) even with the real scope. Strange.

blaster pawn shop fake.jpg




Nice broomhandle with holster wear.

mexican-marked-broomhandle-mauser-c96-second-gun-8-1200x1162 (1).jpg
 

chubsANDdoggers

Sr Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
Well it is a TV show after all right??

I mean that’s the first inclination of not taking anything they say to serious. Personally from the story I was told a while back (as far back as ‘16) I think Watts fully believed and probably still does to some extent that he has the blaster. All you have to do is take a step outside of this thread to remember most don’t know any of the details regarding this blaster let alone all the different version. Watts apparently bought up Babty and even then he didn’t know what he had. Heck when people reach out to me to see if I can build them a blaster the first question I ask is which one.. their response is simply “Han Solo’s”. Novels are written trying to explain the difference and variances. As everyone here knows it can get real complicated real fast! Watts I believe wasn’t any different. Infact I’m willing to bet he never really looked at any real photos that closely and certainly didn’t want to believe what he had wasn’t it.

But I’m sure in the real world (not the TV show) he quickly found out there some serious discrepancies when shopping it around. Kind of heartbreaking and he probably is still in denial. I know I would be anyhow. Im sure he also realizes that it still has major value. That scope and those two caps alone have some serious value. Being that the base Mauser is also from Bapty can you imagine if someone here with some real talent for rebuilding a live fire replica got ahold of it?? Adding a Vintage antenna greeblie, a heat sink grill using authentic parts, an authentic FH (after extending the BB) one could rebuild that PS blaster into something very special indeed. And Watts hopefully knows this now and one day is smart enough to commission someone with some real talent to do it. It’s way out of my league but I’d personally love to see it! Some lucky soul will hopefully get that opportunity and another lucky soul (with deep pockets) will be able to display it with pride eventually after it goes to auction. Heck most of the E11’s people buy at auctions remember have been rebuilt since filming and they sell for tons. Watts is just fine with his blaster. His mistake shouldn’t be shamed.. most in the world would think the same as he does. TV shows are fake and embellish info for their audience. Again thank goodness for this thread!

Actually.. if it’s a live fire that’s been decommissioned can it be put out on display in the open? Or would it have to be under lock and key? That might hurt it’s value if so.. maybe.
 
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thd9791

Master Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
The ESB resin castings are full castings of Han's pistol. Every little detail confirms this. Check the wood grip details.
The one thing I'd like to know is if that mold was made for ESB or whether they made it for ANH and made a bunch of holster stuffers?
With my first hand examination of several original castings, I can't determine if there is anything dimensional to that black mark in the center of the "disc". But there may be something like what has been pointed out above.
Thanks for coming in, and for the info :) I remember people finding that little curve years ago. In my early replica builder days I'd use loctite or super glue and many times a little bit squished out from under a part, leaving a little ridge. That's all this has seemed to me. If holsters can wear down blueing, snapping off a bonded greeblie could probably damage the finish too to some degree.

I've suggested it a few times here, but the pistons and motor coil parts are part of the ESB molds right? I notice some have cracks and they look to be the same solid resin as the rest of the gun. To me this suggests either they took ANH holster stuffers and glued greeblies to them for a mold OR something like this happened with the original metal ANH gun (seen here is my MGC Hoth ESB Blaster)
fullsizeoutput_2403.jpeg

I absolutely love the timeline, and it's wild to think the Merr-Sonn was actually the hero all along, and the disc in the back might have been successfully removed.
 

chubsANDdoggers

Sr Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
As far as the mystery disk being milled into place.. ya your right. No real chance of that. If it was it would be obvious within this casting. The whole outline would show wouldn’t it?? The glue residue is probably the right track to follow here..
AF989804-67C2-4EB0-B5DA-EDC6E1BA5440.png


Edit: this might be helpful for anyone who’s tying to locate where this disk should specifically sit on the Mauser itself..
 
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kpax

Sr Member
Thanks for coming in, and for the info :) I remember people finding that little curve years ago. In my early replica builder days I'd use loctite or super glue and many times a little bit squished out from under a part, leaving a little ridge. That's all this has seemed to me. If holsters can wear down blueing, snapping off a bonded greeblie could probably damage the finish too to some degree.

I've suggested it a few times here, but the pistons and motor coil parts are part of the ESB molds right? I notice some have cracks and they look to be the same solid resin as the rest of the gun. To me this suggests either they took ANH holster stuffers and glued greeblies to them for a mold OR something like this happened with the original metal ANH gun (seen here is my MGC Hoth ESB Blaster)


I absolutely love the timeline, and it's wild to think the Merr-Sonn was actually the hero all along, and the disc in the back might have been successfully removed.


Rethinking my timeline.

My original thought was to just present evidence that the pre Hero Mauser and the MerrSonn casting are the same gun which I think it is.

MerrSonns are cast with Left side mounts. It seems to be the same lower and has no right side mounts.

To make the HERO the Left side mounts are removed and cleaned up. Right side mounts put on and the gun is reblued.

There would be the mystery disk on the left in the Pre image if debrazed as I earlier stated.

I would think the lower would need to be reblued after heating to debraze.

This is the logical way Bapty would have sent out the hero prop to LucasFilm. Apparently the pre production images are Baptys continuity images.

Lucas gets the gun and adds the plastic bits.

Now, IF Carl did not or could not debraze the scope mounts or didn't want to reblue he could have milled them off. He would set the Mauser up on the mill and carefully mill them off. The rear is flat and parallel so no problem.

The front mount is set on an angle of the mag well so you set it parallel to the surface and mill off the mount. If using a 25mm end mill he would clean up the area by just touching the surface. Machinists use fluid or even sharpies to coat the surface and just touch enough to remove the ink. This "could" have left the top edge we see.

But the bottom glint looks raised in some images which is likely glue.

The disk is most likely just discolored area from glued on greeble as many have concluded. Again, someone check in the holster for a broke off knob!


I edited and revised my timeline with other comments.
 
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chubsANDdoggers

Sr Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
I think it said it was Mexican marked.
There are SO many variations of Mauser c96 style guns. Little and big detail changes.

It’s pretty intimidating actually isn’t it:oops:

I have this book here and it’s crazy all the varieties but I haven’t noticed that one just yet.
30C97872-A2C2-46AC-BFFA-C281B5D7E432.jpeg
 

Vanitas

Sr Member
Well in other news, I just got my scope in from Todd's Costumes. Honestly... I'm not terribly impressed by it.

I don't know if maybe I received an older model of theirs, but it hardly matches the images of the one on their website. The scope knob has the wrong knurling pattern (think the diamond shape of the MR Elite Edition scope), the Hensoldt Wetzlar Ziel Dialyt 3× font is TINY; almost half the size of the lettering on my other scopes from DEC and Field Marshal respectively (Also the 3 uses an x instead of the correct × symbol, as Todd's own stock photos show.

For comparison, you can see how his own listing of the scope does not have any of these issues (which is why I am wondering if I somehow got an 'old' scope??):


All of these might be 'trivial' details, but when the scope Todd shows on his own website does not have any of these mistakes, then I would consider the one I received to be a regression in overall quality, even if the magnification of the scope is inherently novel.

20220120_163737.jpg



20220120_163803.jpg


My old DEC scope compared to Todd's (look at that TINY font! Also the knurl on Todd's knob is actually crooked):

20220120_164433.jpg


Buyer beware I guess; if this really is Todd's modern scope, then just because you're going to buy the most expensive replica scope available you shouldn't expect it to have every accurate detail that have been known about and replicated by just about everybody (including Todd himself!) over the past several years.
 
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