AA/SDS recasting issue...

Exactly, most folks would fall over dead if they knew the profit margin on a full suit of armor priced at $800 -1200.

I don't intend on lambasting armor makers for turning a profit, because every single one of them do it. But don't for one second believe they "do it for the love of the stormtrooper, the love of the hobby or just because they want to help their fellow man".

$$$ rules the world if you haven't noticed.

Now let's drop this ridiculous notion in the waste can and move on.
 
Originally posted by Lord Abaddon@Jan 12 2006, 10:19 AM
Bingo...and one of the underlying causes for a lot of this strife.  Competitors and their associates chiming in from the "underground" against someone who is brazenly selling and doing what they wish they could do.  Or who tried to make/cut deals with AA and were rebuffed.

The truth is many involved are hardly doing this just for the sake of "love of the hobby" but have their own agendas, either as noted above or just to cause strife and conflict and would glom on to any issue that they just felt worthy of their time and attacks.
[snapback]1156974[/snapback]​
I respect a lot of your viewpoints, LA, but I have a question. Do you think AA is "above ground" right now? Just because he is on LFL's scopes does not mean that Joe Blow from Kokomo knows who the hell he is or what he sells. This whole sordid hobby is underground.

My disdain for his "fighting" this lawsuit is that even IF he did not recast members items here, he is trying to claim rights to something that IF he did sculpt so many years ago that he would have no right to. Being the original vacuum former(which is not in dispute as far as I have read) does not grant you the right to sell licensed items without GL/LFL getting their nut, and it would be a huuuge nut at that.

Most people when hit with a C&D here fold the hand. Studio money is much larger than most people's bank books here. I don't know AA's finances, I don't know why he is trying to fight this. I do know there is a whole mountain of circumstantial evidence that he has "borrowed" some of the pieces he sells as "original" pieces.

I just wonder what future a case like this leads to. Studios destroying molds and such seems not too far fetched. That leads me to another question/hypothetical. Wouldn't Lucas have kept the original molds to HIS items after shooting wrapped on ANH? Just a thought.
 
Originally posted by Gytheran@Jan 12 2006, 01:02 AM
So what's the big deal over Vader helmets, Thomas?
[snapback]1156799[/snapback]​

Oh I don't think you want to get into that here...that's enough for another huge thread :).

:cheers,

Thomas
 
Originally posted by exoray+Jan 12 2006, 01:47 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(exoray @ Jan 12 2006, 01:47 AM)</div>
<!--QuoteBegin-SithLord
@Jan 11 2006, 11:56 PM
the recaster himself gets RECAST  :unsure

Odd you feel that way about trooper armor but crusade for the vader helmet recasters recasting rights...

That's the big joke here...so don't expect me to take these underground armor producers seriously, especially when they go through so much effort to expose the legal action against AA for such "noble" and unselfish reasons....  :angel

Expose what? The court case was made public on Court TV, it's hardly underground... If you believe keeping up to date with news that directly impacts this hobby is wrong, feel free to not read it...

And the truth is AA is nothing more or less then an underground armor producer himself...
[/b]


I really didn't want to get into the Vader stuff here in this thread so as not to encumber the readers here but since you guys keep baiting me on that point so be it....

Gino's #1 criterion effectively gives GH the "rights" to his helmet. Since I own the helmet now it gives me the rights to it...and it doesn't even have to do with rights...it has to do with copying something without permission that belongs to a fellow RPF member.

And by underground I meant GF, Gino, CRPROPs, FX etc....are underground. SDS was out in the open with a website, interviews, etc. Why? Because he knew his legal rights. Can LFL win if the case was tried in the UK? I think you know the answer to that....

Now back to the issue as to whether the RPF should make a stand against SDS for alleged recasting.

:cheers,

Thomas
 
Originally posted by Qui-Gonzalez@Jan 12 2006, 01:21 PM
That leads me to another question/hypothetical. Wouldn't Lucas have kept the original molds to HIS items after shooting wrapped on ANH? Just a thought.
[snapback]1157109[/snapback]​

EXACTLY. That's because they are AA's molds, not LFLs. Why hasn't LFL been able to reclaim them? Because legally they cannot...they have no evidence of ownership or rights to those molds.

nuff said....

:cheers,

Thomas
 
Quote:
"I just wonder what future a case like this leads to. Studios destroying molds and such seems not too far fetched. That leads me to another question/hypothetical. Wouldn't Lucas have kept the original molds to HIS items after shooting wrapped on ANH? Just a thought."


If LFL kept their ANH moulds, they shouldn't have a hard time proving it in court, eh???

I theorize they didn't keep all the technical junk after filming ANH because they were so convinced it would flop at the box office. I'm frankly suprised that so many ANH props even exist in the archives.......what with all the original props in private collectors hands. Most of LFL's original props on display were from ESB/ROTJ. They don't have a huge collection of ANH pieces from what I can tell. It looks like he kept his favorites and let the rest go.........or else tried to salvage the remnants for the following two films.
 
Originally posted by SithLord+Jan 12 2006, 01:32 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SithLord @ Jan 12 2006, 01:32 PM)</div>
<!--QuoteBegin-Qui-Gonzalez
@Jan 12 2006, 01:21 PM
That leads me to another question/hypothetical. Wouldn't Lucas have kept the original molds to HIS items after shooting wrapped on ANH? Just a thought.
[snapback]1157109[/snapback]​

EXACTLY. That's because they are AA's molds, not LFLs. Why hasn't LFL been able to reclaim them? Because legally they cannot...they have no evidence of ownership or rights to those molds.

nuff said....

:cheers,

Thomas
[snapback]1157120[/snapback]​
[/b]

And you know this with 100% certainity? If not you are indulging in the same behavior you were chastising everybody else for 3 pages ago...

:rolleyes

Bruce
 
Having only watched from the sidelines after a good raking for suggesting that 2 pieces can be vacuformed from the same buck and have more deviation in appearance from the outside than the inside...

In evaluating an accusation of recasting, it seems to me that the best evidence to analyze are the molds, themselves. Barring that, the next best thing would be a comparison of the insides of the formed parts. Barring that, the next best thing would be a comparision of the outsides of the formed parts. Barring that, the next best thing would be to forget about it.

That said, there seems to be A LOT of evasion and waffling going on in this thread.

Let's say that I've never heard of this forum and that I sculpted, molded, cast and provide all the finished parts of a character that appeared in the Star Wars television series. Unlikely that I should do this, I know. And, not just because I'm so, 'not that talented': CGI. But, I digress. So, I sculpted this character and was paid real money by LFL. Steering clear of whether I can/should/want to make more of this character because I like it/the money it can make me, let's assume that the television series is a huge hit and the character is quite popular.

"PropSeller", a fictious member here, acquires a production-used part of the character I made and casts it for the purpose of selling copies. So far, so good, by our CoC. PropSeller later acquires a damaged, but complete set of parts for the character and labors to bring it to a state that closely matches what is seen on-screen. This involves scratchbuilding some of the smaller components that were damaged, molding and casting them. PropSeller sells complete renderings of the character that buyers know have undergone some cleanup.

Later, and for whatever reason, I decide to make copies of the entire set of pieces of the character (that I originally sold to LFL) for the purpose of selling them. However, I don't possess all of the parts. So, I acquire (buy, borrow, whatever) a set of PropSeller's parts and have my way with them. 6 months later, I'm selling the same character. I make no claim that it's more original, or better. I don't join the forum to which PropSeller belongs. However, other members of the forum to which PropSeller belongs buy my parts and show them on the forum. They discover who I am in relation to the original production and tell their friends, both on and off the board. More people buy my parts.

The only person who is in a position to evaluate the parts that I sell is PropSeller. He determines that the pieces I am selling look very similar to the damaged pieces of the set of parts he acquired and that he had to scratchbuild to complete the whole character.

This is, obviously, a work of fiction. However, if you look at it on its own merits, and temporarily distance yourself from/forget about the SDS situation, can you honestly say that what I am doing (fictiously, mind you), copying someone else's parts that I no longer have so I can construct the complete character that I originally made is the "right" thing to do? A better question, perhaps, is: would your conscience bother you if you had done for real, what I just did in this fictious example?

Food for thought.

EDIT: italics tags
 
There lies the problem in a nutshell, lots of circumstantial evidence from both sides, but noone knows for sure what AA does or does not have claim to. I promise you that within the pending case, LFL will either prove or disprove the claims made by AA and vice-versa. We won't truly "know" with absolute certainty until the fat lady sings.



Originally posted by KarlBud420+Jan 12 2006, 01:50 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(KarlBud420 @ Jan 12 2006, 01:50 PM)</div>
Originally posted by SithLord@Jan 12 2006, 01:32 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-Qui-Gonzalez
@Jan 12 2006, 01:21 PM
That leads me to another question/hypothetical. Wouldn't Lucas have kept the original molds to HIS items after shooting wrapped on ANH? Just a thought.
[snapback]1157109[/snapback]​


EXACTLY. That's because they are AA's molds, not LFLs. Why hasn't LFL been able to reclaim them? Because legally they cannot...they have no evidence of ownership or rights to those molds.

nuff said....

:cheers,

Thomas
[snapback]1157120[/snapback]​

And you know this with 100% certainity? If not you are indulging in the same behavior you were chastising everybody else for 3 pages ago...

:rolleyes

Bruce
[snapback]1157133[/snapback]​
[/b]
 
Originally posted by Lord Abaddon+Jan 12 2006, 02:19 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Lord Abaddon @ Jan 12 2006, 02:19 PM)</div>
<!--QuoteBegin-vaderdarth
@Jan 12 2006, 07:25 AM
So TE, GF, Gino and all the current derivatives aren't in it for the MONEY?????

Holy cow.  I'm gonna go rethink my life....

Jeesh....


What was the topic again???

Dave  :rolleyes
[snapback]1156921[/snapback]​

Bingo...and one of the underlying causes for a lot of this strife. Competitors and their associates chiming in from the "underground" against someone who is brazenly selling and doing what they wish they could do. Or who tried to make/cut deals with AA and were rebuffed.

The truth is many involved are hardly doing this just for the sake of "love of the hobby" but have their own agendas, either as noted above or just to cause strife and conflict and would glom on to any issue that they just felt worthy of their time and attacks.
[snapback]1156974[/snapback]​
[/b]

You of all people should know that GF and TE were trying to produce the best trooper armor out there. How often they posted progress reports, how often they asked for feedback. You've been around long enough.
Again, what do I produce? Oh thats right. I know Matt so therefore I'm a trooper armor producer. ask all of the trooper armor owners out there how many orders I've fulfiled.
Matt works alone. He pulls his armor alone, he trims his pieces alone, he boxes and ships them alone. My "contribution" to making trooper armor is that I've helped him to clear frames a few times in order to give Matt a hand, but it turns out that I was usually too slow, and slowed down his process.

Stromtroopers, I have no interest in. Boba Fett stuff is where any of my Star wars passion lies.

The truth is many involved are hardly doing this just for the sake of "love of the hobby" but have their own agendas, either as noted above or just to cause strife and conflict and would glom on to any issue that they just felt worthy of their time and attacks.

Ironic. Turn that mirror around on yourself why don't you. Why are you here?
 
Originally posted by vaderdarth@Jan 12 2006, 12:25 PM
So TE, GF, Gino and all the current derivatives aren't in it for the MONEY?????

Holy cow.  I'm gonna go rethink my life....

Jeesh....


What was the topic again???

Dave  :rolleyes
[snapback]1156921[/snapback]​

And I said that where? Please feel free to reread my post in case you're having trouble understanding it.

Cheers.

What was the topic again???

Irony at it's best. I love it.

(edited for spelling)
 
Originally posted by SithLord+Jan 12 2006, 05:32 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SithLord @ Jan 12 2006, 05:32 PM)</div>
<!--QuoteBegin-Qui-Gonzalez
@Jan 12 2006, 01:21 PM
That leads me to another question/hypothetical. Wouldn't Lucas have kept the original molds to HIS items after shooting wrapped on ANH? Just a thought.
[snapback]1157109[/snapback]​

EXACTLY. That's because they are AA's molds, not LFLs. Why hasn't LFL been able to reclaim them? Because legally they cannot...they have no evidence of ownership or rights to those molds.

nuff said....

:cheers,

Thomas
[snapback]1157120[/snapback]​
[/b]

Wow. This shows that you either have a very short memory, or that you're just here to argue with people. Simply amazing.
 
Heck I thought we were all here because we give one another a great big warm fuzzy feeling. Well I'm only speaking for me of course. :)
 
Originally posted by Qui-Gonzalez+Jan 12 2006, 12:21 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Qui-Gonzalez @ Jan 12 2006, 12:21 PM)</div>
<!--QuoteBegin-Lord Abaddon
@Jan 12 2006, 10:19 AM
Bingo...and one of the underlying causes for a lot of this strife.  Competitors and their associates chiming in from the "underground" against someone who is brazenly selling and doing what they wish they could do.  Or who tried to make/cut deals with AA and were rebuffed.

The truth is many involved are hardly doing this just for the sake of "love of the hobby" but have their own agendas, either as noted above or just to cause strife and conflict and would glom on to any issue that they just felt worthy of their time and attacks.
[snapback]1156974[/snapback]​
I respect a lot of your viewpoints, LA, but I have a question. Do you think AA is "above ground" right now? Just because he is on LFL's scopes does not mean that Joe Blow from Kokomo knows who the hell he is or what he sells. This whole sordid hobby is underground.

My disdain for his "fighting" this lawsuit is that even IF he did not recast members items here, he is trying to claim rights to something that IF he did sculpt so many years ago that he would have no right to. Being the original vacuum former(which is not in dispute as far as I have read) does not grant you the right to sell licensed items without GL/LFL getting their nut, and it would be a huuuge nut at that.

Most people when hit with a C&D here fold the hand. Studio money is much larger than most people's bank books here. I don't know AA's finances, I don't know why he is trying to fight this. I do know there is a whole mountain of circumstantial evidence that he has "borrowed" some of the pieces he sells as "original" pieces.

I just wonder what future a case like this leads to. Studios destroying molds and such seems not too far fetched. That leads me to another question/hypothetical. Wouldn't Lucas have kept the original molds to HIS items after shooting wrapped on ANH? Just a thought.
[snapback]1157109[/snapback]​
[/b]

I do believe AA is "above ground" because even though the general non-prop people don't know who they is, they can easily learn. They either read and believe (or not) his website and/or they can ask around at the forums and/or they can find out information about him and what he's worked on previously (like Alien, etc.).

The other reason he is "above ground" is because he is firm in his belief he has a 100% legal right to do what he is doing, and why he is taking on Goliath. The evidence, and all we know is opinions presented in the court documents and by outsiders, will likely all have to come out as it is pretty clear he isn't giving in. It has been stated that AA's legal teams are no slouches and that they have excellent reputations in the USA and UK. So clearly *something* is behind AA or I can't see two such teams going head-to-head in what is considered by many a clearly losing battle.

That is why so much of what is said in these AA/SDS discussions frankly should just wait until the facts become known through the court case. One way or another there will be some sort of ruling, and some sort of end, to what AA's involvement in Star Wars actually was, what he actually owns, what he can prove/disprove. In the meantime everything said is just pure speculation and assumption.
 
Originally posted by motorfish+Jan 12 2006, 01:50 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(motorfish @ Jan 12 2006, 01:50 PM)</div>
Originally posted by Lord Abaddon@Jan 12 2006, 02:19 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-vaderdarth
@Jan 12 2006, 07:25 AM
So TE, GF, Gino and all the current derivatives aren't in it for the MONEY?????

Holy cow.  I'm gonna go rethink my life....

Jeesh....


What was the topic again???

Dave  :rolleyes
[snapback]1156921[/snapback]​


Bingo...and one of the underlying causes for a lot of this strife. Competitors and their associates chiming in from the "underground" against someone who is brazenly selling and doing what they wish they could do. Or who tried to make/cut deals with AA and were rebuffed.

The truth is many involved are hardly doing this just for the sake of "love of the hobby" but have their own agendas, either as noted above or just to cause strife and conflict and would glom on to any issue that they just felt worthy of their time and attacks.
[snapback]1156974[/snapback]​

You of all people should know that GF and TE were trying to produce the best trooper armor out there. How often they posted progress reports, how often they asked for feedback. You've been around long enough.
Again, what do I produce? Oh thats right. I know Matt so therefore I'm a trooper armor producer. ask all of the trooper armor owners out there how many orders I've fulfiled.
Matt works alone. He pulls his armor alone, he trims his pieces alone, he boxes and ships them alone. My "contribution" to making trooper armor is that I've helped him to clear frames a few times in order to give Matt a hand, but it turns out that I was usually too slow, and slowed down his process.

Stromtroopers, I have no interest in. Boba Fett stuff is where any of my Star wars passion lies.

The truth is many involved are hardly doing this just for the sake of "love of the hobby" but have their own agendas, either as noted above or just to cause strife and conflict and would glom on to any issue that they just felt worthy of their time and attacks.

Ironic. Turn that mirror around on yourself why don't you. Why are you here?
[snapback]1157161[/snapback]​
[/b]


Um, bull. Either that or Matt is a liar too. He told me you helped him with painting the finished helmets. He also told me how much he would make on each suit he pulled and how he would do it to both recoup costs on the original but make more to buy more props. He also told me he has other who help him trim and pull because it was hard for him with his family and all. And he admitted to me he is definitely not an artist so would get others to work with him.

GF I actually do not know enough about who he worked with or what he did. I have a great respect for GF and in all honesty felt terrible when he was hit by LFL. However...you can look at any ad put out long ago on GF's site and see the prices of what he was selling. Considering Matt himself told me the actual costs in materials to make a full armor set, and how much profit was being made by others, and I have since heard the same...there is no doubt money was in GF's mind too.

Now...keep in mind...I am NOT saying that either TE nor GF wanting to make a profit off their work was a bad thing. Not at all. I sure would be willing to pay for GF's work in a heartbeat and actually did own several of TE's various props at one time or another. But the fact is that profit was still a big factor tied into their love and passion for Star Wars and props. However I will say that GF has been throughout it all a gentleman, as always, while TE has been far less than that.

Why am I here? Same reason you are. I love SW, love the props, have collected nearly every ST helmet from my first Don Post '77 "toy." AND to give an alternate perspective on AA that is neither connected to him nor anything but a collector who sees someone from the original movie doing something we all have wanted...but some have tainted or decided was wrong from the get go. Or to sum up...to give some actual counter-points to the vilification process that seems to have been decided the second he went "live" with his sales.
 
Originally posted by Lord Abaddon+Jan 12 2006, 07:27 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Lord Abaddon @ Jan 12 2006, 07:27 PM)</div>
Originally posted by motorfish@Jan 12 2006, 01:50 PM
Originally posted by Lord Abaddon@Jan 12 2006, 02:19 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-vaderdarth
@Jan 12 2006, 07:25 AM
So TE, GF, Gino and all the current derivatives aren't in it for the MONEY?????

Holy cow.  I'm gonna go rethink my life....

Jeesh....


What was the topic again???

Dave  :rolleyes
[snapback]1156921[/snapback]​


Bingo...and one of the underlying causes for a lot of this strife. Competitors and their associates chiming in from the "underground" against someone who is brazenly selling and doing what they wish they could do. Or who tried to make/cut deals with AA and were rebuffed.

The truth is many involved are hardly doing this just for the sake of "love of the hobby" but have their own agendas, either as noted above or just to cause strife and conflict and would glom on to any issue that they just felt worthy of their time and attacks.
[snapback]1156974[/snapback]​


You of all people should know that GF and TE were trying to produce the best trooper armor out there. How often they posted progress reports, how often they asked for feedback. You've been around long enough.
Again, what do I produce? Oh thats right. I know Matt so therefore I'm a trooper armor producer. ask all of the trooper armor owners out there how many orders I've fulfiled.
Matt works alone. He pulls his armor alone, he trims his pieces alone, he boxes and ships them alone. My "contribution" to making trooper armor is that I've helped him to clear frames a few times in order to give Matt a hand, but it turns out that I was usually too slow, and slowed down his process.

Stromtroopers, I have no interest in. Boba Fett stuff is where any of my Star wars passion lies.

The truth is many involved are hardly doing this just for the sake of "love of the hobby" but have their own agendas, either as noted above or just to cause strife and conflict and would glom on to any issue that they just felt worthy of their time and attacks.

Ironic. Turn that mirror around on yourself why don't you. Why are you here?
[snapback]1157161[/snapback]​


Um, bull. Either that or Matt is a liar too. He told me you helped him with painting the finished helmets. He also told me how much he would make on each suit he pulled and how he would do it to both recoup costs on the original but make more to buy more props. He also told me he has other who help him trim and pull because it was hard for him with his family and all. And he admitted to me he is definitely not an artist so would get others to work with him.

GF I actually do not know enough about who he worked with or what he did. I have a great respect for GF and in all honesty felt terrible when he was hit by LFL. However...you can look at any ad put out long ago on GF's site and see the prices of what he was selling. Considering Matt himself told me the actual costs in materials to make a full armor set, and how much profit was being made by others, and I have since heard the same...there is no doubt money was in GF's mind too.

Now...keep in mind...I am NOT saying that either TE nor GF wanting to make a profit off their work was a bad thing. Not at all. I sure would be willing to pay for GF's work in a heartbeat and actually did own several of TE's various props at one time or another. But the fact is that profit was still a big factor tied into their love and passion for Star Wars and props. However I will say that GF has been throughout it all a gentleman, as always, while TE has been far less than that.

Why am I here? Same reason you are. I love SW, love the props, have collected nearly every ST helmet from my first Don Post '77 "toy." AND to give an alternate perspective on AA that is neither connected to him nor anything but a collector who sees someone from the original movie doing something we all have wanted...but some have tainted or decided was wrong from the get go. Or to sum up...to give some actual counter-points to the vilification process that seems to have been decided the second he went "live" with his sales.
[snapback]1157187[/snapback]​
[/b]

He told me you helped him with painting the finished helmets.

"In the meantime everything said is just pure speculation and assumption." Your words, I believe, are appropriate here. Dan L may have helped in the painting of his own helmet, but not this Dan. Probably for the Tie Pilot stuff, but Matt was pretty hands-on for trooper stuff. I remeber a few people painting stuff on trooper helmets, but those were for their own suits and helmets, not to fulfill orders.

There was talk of me helping out in painting, but it never got the chance to happen as I was busy all summer. I never put one coat of paint on a helmet, nor filled in a frown, or painted an ear.

Y'see, the difference is that I was there and you were not. You've got nothin' here, I'm afraid. ^_^

And I never said that profit WASN'T a part of GF's or TE's plan did I, but that it was not the primary reason. Weak ass turn around tactic at best, IMO. Cut and paste away for all I care.
 
Why am I here? Same reason you are. I love SW, love the props, have collected nearly every ST helmet from my first Don Post '77 "toy." AND to give an alternate perspective on AA that is neither connected to him nor anything but a collector who sees someone from the original movie doing something we all have wanted...but some have tainted or decided was wrong from the get go. Or to sum up...to give some actual counter-points to the vilification process that seems to have been decided the second he went "live" with his sales.

Give me a break. You've gone way beyond giving "counterpoints". You've posted ten times the amount of virtual ink on this subject as I have. But it is interesting, as setting yourself as AA's makeshift online criminal defense lawyer, you've effectively discounted and ignored any and all evidence that several people have brought up on the contrary with "nobody has the facts" and "this is all pure conjecture" without missing a beat. I'll admit, there's been some really good visual evidence which has been brought to light too.

So, are your opinions conjecture as well?

You may not like Matt, but at least he never lied about where his stuff came from, and he probably got on your case about it, didn't he? That's what this is really about isn't it? Matt probably told where you could stick your conjecture, and your ego, being what it is, has now turned it's main guns towards him, hasn't it? I know you and he don't get along, and I'm beginning to see why. "Conjecture", of course.

You're very different from the guy I used to joke and clown around with three years ago. This part isn't conjecture. It's the truth.

And it's sad...
 
Originally posted by motorfish+Jan 12 2006, 02:53 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(motorfish @ Jan 12 2006, 02:53 PM)</div>
Originally posted by Lord Abaddon@Jan 12 2006, 07:27 PM
Originally posted by motorfish@Jan 12 2006, 01:50 PM
Originally posted by Lord Abaddon@Jan 12 2006, 02:19 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-vaderdarth
@Jan 12 2006, 07:25 AM
So TE, GF, Gino and all the current derivatives aren't in it for the MONEY?????

Holy cow.  I'm gonna go rethink my life....

Jeesh....


What was the topic again???

Dave  :rolleyes
[snapback]1156921[/snapback]​


Bingo...and one of the underlying causes for a lot of this strife. Competitors and their associates chiming in from the "underground" against someone who is brazenly selling and doing what they wish they could do. Or who tried to make/cut deals with AA and were rebuffed.

The truth is many involved are hardly doing this just for the sake of "love of the hobby" but have their own agendas, either as noted above or just to cause strife and conflict and would glom on to any issue that they just felt worthy of their time and attacks.
[snapback]1156974[/snapback]​


You of all people should know that GF and TE were trying to produce the best trooper armor out there. How often they posted progress reports, how often they asked for feedback. You've been around long enough.
Again, what do I produce? Oh thats right. I know Matt so therefore I'm a trooper armor producer. ask all of the trooper armor owners out there how many orders I've fulfiled.
Matt works alone. He pulls his armor alone, he trims his pieces alone, he boxes and ships them alone. My "contribution" to making trooper armor is that I've helped him to clear frames a few times in order to give Matt a hand, but it turns out that I was usually too slow, and slowed down his process.

Stromtroopers, I have no interest in. Boba Fett stuff is where any of my Star wars passion lies.

The truth is many involved are hardly doing this just for the sake of "love of the hobby" but have their own agendas, either as noted above or just to cause strife and conflict and would glom on to any issue that they just felt worthy of their time and attacks.

Ironic. Turn that mirror around on yourself why don't you. Why are you here?
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Um, bull. Either that or Matt is a liar too. He told me you helped him with painting the finished helmets. He also told me how much he would make on each suit he pulled and how he would do it to both recoup costs on the original but make more to buy more props. He also told me he has other who help him trim and pull because it was hard for him with his family and all. And he admitted to me he is definitely not an artist so would get others to work with him.

GF I actually do not know enough about who he worked with or what he did. I have a great respect for GF and in all honesty felt terrible when he was hit by LFL. However...you can look at any ad put out long ago on GF's site and see the prices of what he was selling. Considering Matt himself told me the actual costs in materials to make a full armor set, and how much profit was being made by others, and I have since heard the same...there is no doubt money was in GF's mind too.

Now...keep in mind...I am NOT saying that either TE nor GF wanting to make a profit off their work was a bad thing. Not at all. I sure would be willing to pay for GF's work in a heartbeat and actually did own several of TE's various props at one time or another. But the fact is that profit was still a big factor tied into their love and passion for Star Wars and props. However I will say that GF has been throughout it all a gentleman, as always, while TE has been far less than that.

Why am I here? Same reason you are. I love SW, love the props, have collected nearly every ST helmet from my first Don Post '77 "toy." AND to give an alternate perspective on AA that is neither connected to him nor anything but a collector who sees someone from the original movie doing something we all have wanted...but some have tainted or decided was wrong from the get go. Or to sum up...to give some actual counter-points to the vilification process that seems to have been decided the second he went "live" with his sales.
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He told me you helped him with painting the finished helmets.

"In the meantime everything said is just pure speculation and assumption." Your words, I believe, are appropriate here. Dan L may have helped in the painting of his own helmet, but not this Dan. Probably for the Tie Pilot stuff, but Matt was pretty hands-on for trooper stuff. I remeber a few people painting stuff on trooper helmets, but those were for their own suits and helmets, not to fulfill orders.

There was talk of me helping out in painting, but it never got the chance to happen as I was busy all summer. I never put one coat of paint on a helmet, nor filled in a frown, or painted an ear.

Y'see, the difference is that I was there and you were not. You've got nothin' here, I'm afraid. ^_^

And I never said that profit WASN'T a part of GF's or TE's plan did I, but that it was not the primary reason. Weak ass turn around tactic at best, IMO. Cut and paste away for all I care.
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Well at least you admit that profit was part of the motive, from what was being said it sounded like everything being said here was just honorable intentions.

And if you did not work with TE, then I do apologize. The very last time I spoke to him, and it was after he acquired his outfit a few years ago, he said "Dan, Motorfish, helps me out with this stuff so the helmets won't be as bad as the one I painted for you." That apparently didn't happen and so I am sorry if I was going off old information.
 
Well at least you admit that profit was part of the motive, from what was being said it sounded like everything being said here was just honorable intentions.

And if you did not work with TE, then I do apologize. The very last time I spoke to him, and it was after he acquired his outfit a few years ago, he said "Dan, Motorfish, helps me out with this stuff so the helmets won't be as bad as the one I painted for you." That apparently didn't happen and so I am sorry if I was going off old information.

Like I said before, I never said that TE and GF weren't out to make some money too, but that the desire to provide awesome trooper armore was greater than the desire to aquire money from it. Who doesn't want profit?

Years ago, like I also said, I used to help clear frames of vacuform pulls, which means that I cleared the frame that holds the plastic with a pulled piece and replaced it with a new fresh piece. I pretty much ended up slowing him down more than helping him in the long run, so that didn't last too long, as he ended up working much faster on his own.

The idea years ago was that I was going to paint the frowns and ears, but it never came about. I just didn't have the time, and Matt actually got pretty good at it after I showed him some techniques to make his lines tighter. If he had any help in detailing helmets and armor, it didn't come from me. I did completely paint four Colonial Marine costumes for him though, in record time too. Three days, including the pulse rifles.
 
Originally posted by SithLord+Jan 12 2006, 05:32 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SithLord @ Jan 12 2006, 05:32 PM)</div>
<!--QuoteBegin-Qui-Gonzalez
@Jan 12 2006, 01:21 PM
That leads me to another question/hypothetical. Wouldn't Lucas have kept the original molds to HIS items after shooting wrapped on ANH? Just a thought.
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EXACTLY. That's because they are AA's molds, not LFLs. Why hasn't LFL been able to reclaim them? Because legally they cannot...they have no evidence of ownership or rights to those molds.

nuff said....

:cheers,

Thomas
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This is the funniest thing thing you've posted yet :lol

They don't want them back because they know they aren't original :p
 
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