A New Star Wars Trilogy Announced

They don't even have to kill him... or make a clone... but simply not have Anakin there when it happens. The troopers do it and Anakin gets mad at Palpatine who bitch slaps him into submission, saying it had to be done, it was the only way.

...20/20 hindsight checking in... but what if the PT revealed that Kenobi "covered" for Anakin's questionable deeds, and never reported to the Council? Obi-Wan thinking he could "tame" Anakin, break him of his deep anger and fear... and failing. Maybe Padme was the only solace Anakin really had, a reprieve from his internal struggle with the Dark Side.

At least that would lend credence to Anakin's fall, fleshed it out a bit more.

The Clone Wars mini-series gave a more thorough look at Anakin and his power, his internal struggle, leading up to his fall. But as for ROTS, it just drops you into an undeserved personality change.
 
People always say Anakins fall to the dark side was too short, it wasn't. Anakins fall to the dark side began when he got married. After he and Padme got married they both started living a lie. Living a life like that does not make you feel good about yourself.

Addicts in recovery can relapse with out drinking or taking a drug. That is Anakin, he had already fallen to the dark side by the end of ROTS he just needed an excuse to physically start taking that drug again.
 
I'm not in favor of any clone body swaps with Anakin.

The OT's big story is that Vader actually is Anakin and then Luke brings out the good in him. It needs to be the original Anakin inside the Vader suit for all that stuff to resonate.

For that matter, why bother with the burned amputated body at all, if Palpatine can always just clone a fresh one? Why doesn't Palpatine clone a younger body for himself too (and get rid of his pruneface look)? Transferring the soul into a fresh copy of their original body is a cans of worms from a storytelling POV. It kills the stakes of risks & injuries.
 
Speaking of clones, I thought it would make more sense to say that the emperor killed in ROTJ was a clone and not actually Palpatine. If you're going to be this big bad and you truly wanted to protect yourself, there would be no bigger insulation than sending out clones and controlling them from afar instead of going yourself.

As for Anakin's fall, it never really bothered me how Lucas did it. Anakin was convinced that Padme was going to die, whether Palpatine was influencing his visions or not. Anakin didn't think he could stop it. But if he could learn to save people from death, he wouldn't have to lost Padme. He'd already lost his mother. Fear can make people do unimaginable things.
 
Speaking of clones, I thought it would make more sense to say that the emperor killed in ROTJ was a clone and not actually Palpatine. If you're going to be this big bad and you truly wanted to protect yourself, there would be no bigger insulation than sending out clones and controlling them from afar instead of going yourself.

As for Anakin's fall, it never really bothered me how Lucas did it. Anakin was convinced that Padme was going to die, whether Palpatine was influencing his visions or not. Anakin didn't think he could stop it. But if he could learn to save people from death, he wouldn't have to lost Padme. He'd already lost his mother. Fear can make people do unimaginable things.

You hit the nail. On. The. Head.

It would have not harmed TROS in ANY way, to have the Exegol Emperor be the "real" Palpatine all the time, and the ESB and ROTJ versions mere clones of himself. In fact, TROS would have made more sense in this regard, that Palpatine was ALWAYS on Exegol, with his force sensitive clones in strategic places across the galaxy. Perhaps even VADER wasn't aware of this...

Perhaps ROTJ Palpatine was the "last" Palpatine clone, and once the Rebel Alliance learned from Luke that Palps was dead, Exegol Palpatine came up with a new plan, a "new" leader Snoke.

As for Anakin's fall... while wanting to save Padme may have been the final push (Lucas tried to stir the pot by having Anakin assigned to the Jedi Council but NOT given the rank of Master), the way Lucas fleshed it out was lacking. The actors weren't given enough to work with, so I never completely bought it.
 
Was Palpatine his first name or last name?

Harold Q. Palpatine is the proper name. Only his friends call him “Harry”.

 
People always say Anakins fall to the dark side was too short, it wasn't. Anakins fall to the dark side began when he got married. After he and Padme got married they both started living a lie. Living a life like that does not make you feel good about yourself.
I think Anakin's fall began with Palpatine grooming him and inflating his ego since the moment he joined the Jedi. It really came to a head for the first time when he lost his mother, gave into his anger and murdered the Sand People. It continued with the loss of his hand/part of his humanity, his secret marriage, the events on Mortis, his anger & jealousy toward Padme's senator friend (whatever his name was), Ahsoka's exit from the Jedi and the events of ROTS. I'm sure there are other examples I'm missing. You're right it definitely wasn't a quick fall.
 
And that's why it's stupid. People around him looks stupid because of it... and it feels more like an inevitability than a fall. They painted it on too thick.
I'm back and forth about whether or not it was too much for what it was. Lucas had initially intended Anakin to be more of a victim of circumstance and a few bad choices so that really turning to the dark side was his only option. Thats kind of dumb as well. Here you have this horrible villain with a long standing reputation of unspeakable atrocities and evil who just fell into it because it was his only way out.

No matter how events played out they would have flaws which is why I keep coming back to the realization that the story was better without the PT. Not every question needs an answer.
 
I think that I have stood solidly, and then not, in both camps. I will try to explain my feeling about this waffling in my very own conclusion. I explain one way and it feels right. I explain the counter and it feels waaaaay wrong but only TO ME, even though I have seen real world, friends and family, do the things that are WAAAAAY WRONG (in my eyes). Why do the people around him not stop him. Why do they put up with his punishable by death crimes? Well, George felt the same way and George studied history and politics and fables and legends and this horrific crap is OUR WORLD. The letting your husband go off and do horrible things, wow ya, how many generations of people have done that? Hundreds?

I think we see the fall and its ludicrously obvious intervention opportunities and we balk because we SHOULD. But that isn't historically accurate, it is only logically accurate.

How many off us have dealt with family, friends and, for some, ourselves, doing horrible things and this string of pathetic circle talk and excuses and pandering and tolerance and enabling leaks out like puss from a wound that all involved can see and smell and cannot ignore but lie and cover and make excuses for instead of just killing him when he needed it. See how wrong it feels to even say the actual answer? George made a story so quarrelsome but we still see the humanity in it enough to TAKE A SIDE AND STAUNCHLY DEFEND IT. Not like 789 where everyone just says "What the firpin skillet fried scamble did I just ingest? What was that? What did I just see?" George's story mirrors real historical events even if we don't agree with them. We know specific events that went down with the same exact dumbfounding wrongness in our own lives, or at minimum, in our history books.
 
The fall should have been tragic. From a good man to a pawn of evil. Broken by his own impatience - like Luke in ESB, rushing in when he wasn't ready - overpowered by someone more powerful, to the point where he saw no other way out but to join him... chosing life over death in the false hope he would save everyone he cares for... only to realize... he'd be the one to end them. Mirroring Luke in ESB, making Luke's decision to jump completely floor Vader - Luke did what he could not and that is what snaps him back.

Lucas said he wanted to do a tragedy, but didn't. Instead he made all rotten instead of a good side versus a bad side like in the OT.
 
The fall should have been tragic. From a good man to a pawn of evil. Broken by his own impatience - like Luke in ESB, rushing in when he wasn't ready - overpowered by someone more powerful, to the point where he saw no other way out but to join him... chosing life over death in the false hope he would save everyone he cares for... only to realize... he'd be the one to end them. Mirroring Luke in ESB, making Luke's decision to jump completely floor Vader - Luke did what he could not and that is what snaps him back.

Lucas said he wanted to do a tragedy, but didn't. Instead he made all rotten instead of a good side versus a bad side like in the OT.

I am glad you brought up the cloud city drop. To rewatch that now, knowing Anakin instead of big scary Vader (like when I saw it as a kid with only ANH available) really puts that in context with Vader doing the double take like, "uhhhhh".

I had a meeting at work, many years ago, with my new supervisor and it was going down a really bad path, like emotional abuse level. I told him he could just pause because I was quitting and he could deal with the big boss (company prez). He really quickly says, "He told me to do this." I told him I doubted the other guy could possibly think I was that much of a pushover but either way just remove yourself from my path to the door. When I was leaving the building, he went in to the presiden'ts office, left the door open, and loudly said, "Well that did not go as you planned. He just quit and is walking out, right now."

I imagine that Darth had a similar chat with Palps.
 
From "what have I done" to "I'll do anything you ask" 10 seconds later.

What a load of crap.
Massacre a whole preschool and elementary school? Suee palps, no biggy....nothing they showed in any movie or 7 years of cw gets you there.
 
Massacre a whole preschool and elementary school? Suee palps, no biggy....nothing they showed in any movie or 7 years of cw gets you there.
I kind of always looked at it like a kind of possession. Once you stray over a certain line, the m*******ians (we shall not speak their name) flip over into 'dark mode' instantly and then the partially "controls your actions" kicks into gear. The same way it didn't take very long for Vader to come back to the light once Luke's cries for help triggered him. I mean, Luke spent less time trying to convince Vader to come back than Palpatine did manipulating Anakin.
 
I kind of always looked at it like a kind of possession. Once you stray over a certain line, the m*******ians (we shall not speak their name) flip over into 'dark mode' instantly and then the partially "controls your actions" kicks into gear. The same way it didn't take very long for Vader to come back to the light once Luke's cries for help triggered him. I mean, Luke spent less time trying to convince Vader to come back than Palpatine did manipulating Anakin.

...that's a novel thought. But the midi's weren't in the OT, and would have to be retconnned in to both TESB and ROTJ after the PT for that to have "happened"

QuiGon said : "Without the midi-chlorians, life could not exist, and we would have no knowledge of the Force. They continually speak to us, telling us the will of the Force. When you learn to quiet your mind, you'll hear them speaking to you."

So the midi's are radio receivers of the Force, receiving its intent/will. Which lets you know that the Force is:
1) Sentient (it has a will, and can act on others to accomplish its will)
2) Ambivalent. Violence, death, chaos, pain, suffering, destruction as well as love, peace, patience, etc. are "valid" tools the Force uses to help bring about its will
3) Apprently, it is "male" in as much as the Clone Wars series would reveal the Force is embodied by the father and his two children (light and dark, female and male), and he struggles to keep them in balance. Neither side is ever supposed to prevale overall.
4) An energy field that flows through all living things, so it is omnipresent where living things exist, although not omnipotent
5) A fictional construct based on eastern theologies, used as a generic religious device for an entertaining space fantasy film from the 1970s
 
Back
Top