Westworld (HBO)

[Snikt]

Too bad the guy left. Lets hope HBO learned from that instead of repeating themselves. Westworld is such a rad show. For nostalgia sake, does anyone remember the HBO reature presentation thing from the 80's? Where it goes through the little model town then out into space showing the HBO logo with super rad music? I watched it on youtube and I was 9 years old again. Thats one good thing about the internet, it archives everything.

 

[dascoyne]

The show is getting too heavy on the existential pontification.

I would think that folks, like Ford, who don't even believe in host sentience, wouldn't even bother to engage in discussions with what are basically automatons. You can justify only so much by his academic curiosity but he does it incessantly. I wish the superfluous navel gazing was toned down a great deal.

And that incompetent Asian technician, Felix's, implausible stupidity is beyond infuriating. I was hoping he'd disappear so I can get past him as a cheap plot device, but they're leaning heavily (and far too much) on having a major plot thread enabled by this aggravatingly ridiculous character. The show really jumped the shark when he didn't wipe Maeve but then it jumped a humpback whale when he cauterized Sylvester's throat wound. ("But you promised!" ... seriously?). This whole bit with the technicians just about killed the show for me because it reveals how flabby the writing is.

There's simply too much transparent artifice for the sole purpose of squeezing out as many plot twists and surprise revelations out of the story as possible. Westworld feels like an expensive soap opera.

 

[Toadmeister]

The show is getting too heavy on the existential pontification.

I would think that folks, like Ford, who don't even believe in host sentience wouldn't even bother to engage in discussions with what are basically automatons. You can justify only so much by his academic curiosity but he does it incessantly. I wish the superfluous navel gazing was toned down a great deal.

And that incompetent Asian technician, Felix's, implausible stupidity is beyond infuriating. I was hoping he'd disappear so I can get past him as a cheap plot device, but they're leaning heavily (and far too much) on having a major plot thread enabled by this aggravatingly ridiculous character. The show really jumped the shark when he didn't wipe Maeve but then it jumped a humpback whale when he cauterized Sylvester's throat wound. ("But you promised!" ... seriously?). This whole bit with the technicians just about killed the show for me because it reveals how flabby the writing is.

There's simply too much transparent artifice for the sole purpose of squeezing out as many plot twists and surprise revelations out of the story as possible. Westworld feels like an expensive soap opera.

The technicians are 'bots too I think, explain

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

[Toadmeister]

The show is getting too heavy on the existential pontification.

I would think that folks, like Ford, who don't even believe in host sentience wouldn't even bother to engage in discussions with what are basically automatons. You can justify only so much by his academic curiosity but he does it incessantly. I wish the superfluous navel gazing was toned down a great deal.

And that incompetent Asian technician, Felix's, implausible stupidity is beyond infuriating. I was hoping he'd disappear so I can get past him as a cheap plot device, but they're leaning heavily (and far too much) on having a major plot thread enabled by this aggravatingly ridiculous character. The show really jumped the shark when he didn't wipe Maeve but then it jumped a humpback whale when he cauterized Sylvester's throat wound. ("But you promised!" ... seriously?). This whole bit with the technicians just about killed the show for me because it reveals how flabby the writing is.

There's simply too much transparent artifice for the sole purpose of squeezing out as many plot twists and surprise revelations out of the story as possible. Westworld feels like an expensive soap opera.

The technicians are 'bots too I think, explaining their behavior. They cannot exceed their limited programing/attributes to counter Meave.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

[Gimpdiggity]

The show is getting too heavy on the existential pontification.

I would think that folks, like Ford, who don't even believe in host sentience, wouldn't even bother to engage in discussions with what are basically automatons. You can justify only so much by his academic curiosity but he does it incessantly. I wish the superfluous navel gazing was toned down a great deal.

And that incompetent Asian technician, Felix's, implausible stupidity is beyond infuriating. I was hoping he'd disappear so I can get past him as a cheap plot device, but they're leaning heavily (and far too much) on having a major plot thread enabled by this aggravatingly ridiculous character. The show really jumped the shark when he didn't wipe Maeve but then it jumped a humpback whale when he cauterized Sylvester's throat wound. ("But you promised!" ... seriously?). This whole bit with the technicians just about killed the show for me because it reveals how flabby the writing is.

There's simply too much transparent artifice for the sole purpose of squeezing out as many plot twists and surprise revelations out of the story as possible. Westworld feels like an expensive soap opera.

There's a difference between not believing in something and not wanting something. Ford absolutely believes the hosts are capable of being sentient...he just doesn't want that.

It sounds as if you enjoy nothing about the show, which begs the question...why do you even watch?

 

[Snikt]

There's a difference between not believing in something and not wanting something. Ford absolutely believes the hosts are capable of being sentient...he just doesn't want that.

It sounds as if you enjoy nothing about the show, which begs the question...why do you even watch?

This is kind of where I was going, why do you watch it then? Maybe some people just cant get immersed in a show, while I did think Felix's motivations and stuff are kind of stupid, you have to relate to the guy. The is some lowly worker, who by creating the bird, obviously wants to be a programmer, respects the technology, and hopes he can be something more than what he is. The parallel goes with Maeve perfectly. Yeah, are his actions what you would do? Of course not. But in the universe of the show, it makes sense. Yes I wanted to reach through the screen and strangle him when he didnt wipe her memory, but he wants to see how far she can go. Creative minds are always curious. The writing is awesome. So what if he cauterized the wound? Its not like his jugular was exposed, it was a flesh wound on the throat. I was hoping the dude was going to die because he is such an insufferable a-hole.

You also have to understand, if everyone did what you would do, would people want to watch that show? Hell no. No offense, but cmon. Our lives, for the most part, are mundane, and rational thinking is boring. We wouldnt have anything to watch if there werent any idiots doing stupid things.

 

[Soulinertia]

Ford, wants to believe in host sentience. That is why he keeps testing Bernard in hopes to better understand what Arnold's viewpoint was. He was hoping that Bernard would CHOOSE to continue to be his partner through rational thought rather than having to wipe his memory once again.

Also, Felix isn't necessarily stupid. He is a host sympathizer. I think he is rooting for Maeve deep down. He wants to see how far she can take it.

Try watching the show with an empathetic viewpoint from some of these different characters and I think you'll find it much more enjoyable.

It's down right genius writing from Nolan and Joy. And to top it all off, Hopkin's acting has been world class and the highlight of the show for me.

 

[glunark]

What if Bernard had put blanks in that gun, that he only wanted to see Fords face when he told the girl to shoot him, and I know in the real world a blank at point blank range (pun not intended) can kill, but when does that ever happen on tv?

 

[Snikt]

Ford, wants to believe in host sentience. That is why he keeps testing Bernard in hopes to better understand what Arnold's viewpoint was. He was hoping that Bernard would CHOOSE to continue to be his partner through rational thought rather than having to wipe his memory once again.

Also, Felix isn't necessarily stupid. He is a host sympathizer. I think he is rooting for Maeve deep down. He wants to see how far she can take it.

Try watching the show with an empathetic viewpoint from some of these different characters and I think you'll find it much more enjoyable.

It's down right genius writing from Nolan and Joy. And to top it all off, Hopkin's acting has been world class and the highlight of the show for me.

I shouldnt have stupid, I should have said irrational.

 

[dascoyne]

There's a difference between not believing in something and not wanting something. Ford absolutely believes the hosts are capable of being sentient...he just doesn't want that.

It sounds as if you enjoy nothing about the show, which begs the question...why do you even watch?

This is kind of where I was going, why do you watch it then? Maybe some people just cant get immersed in a show, while I did think Felix's motivations and stuff are kind of stupid, you have to relate to the guy. The is some lowly worker, who by creating the bird, obviously wants to be a programmer, respects the technology, and hopes he can be something more than what he is. The parallel goes with Maeve perfectly. Yeah, are his actions what you would do? Of course not. But in the universe of the show, it makes sense. Yes I wanted to reach through the screen and strangle him when he didnt wipe her memory, but he wants to see how far she can go. Creative minds are always curious. The writing is awesome. So what if he cauterized the wound? Its not like his jugular was exposed, it was a flesh wound on the throat. I was hoping the dude was going to die because he is such an insufferable a-hole.

You also have to understand, if everyone did what you would do, would people want to watch that show? Hell no. No offense, but cmon. Our lives, for the most part, are mundane, and rational thinking is boring. We wouldnt have anything to watch if there werent any idiots doing stupid things.

Yes, I know it sounds like I'm just trying to troll this series but that's not the case at all. The series had me hooked with a strong start with an engaging introduction and an intriguingly beautiful production. If I wasn't already invested in the show I wouldn't be watching it at all or posting about it. I liked the show at the start but it's starting to crumble for me - that's all. I really have no joy nitpicking any show to death but, for me at least, these issues portend a drama that isn't as lean as it could be.

I post this criticism wondering if anyone shares my perception (Maybe it's nobody. But that's OK.) or in the hopes that someone could point out some mitigating fact I hadn't considered (happens often).

I accept that ANY work of fiction requires a degree of suspended disbelief to appreciate. Where and how a show breaks depends on each and every viewer. Some folks can't stand superhero films because their basic premise is completely ludicrous. I happen to love superhero films but, if someone wants to debate the logic of wearing colorful tights into battle, I have nothing to stand on.

The point is that, with this production, and with the quality of today's shows, I didn't expect to see the kind of common writing tropes that I described. (If anyone reading this is a writer please chime in.) My expectations in the writing was much higher.

Do I hate everything about the show? No. Maybe (hopefully), by the end of the season, I'll change my mind.

Cheers.

Also, Felix isn't necessarily stupid. He is a host sympathizer. I think he is rooting for Maeve deep down. He wants to see how far she can take it.

This goes back to my issue with suspension of disbelief. As sympathetic as he might be for hosts, it's still a huge leap for him to collude with Mauve after she slashed Sylvester's throat. Even if his friend was mean to him it's a whole different thing to assist Maeve. And by enabling so much potential in her programming how could he not foresee that she'd start to wreck havoc in the factory - that she wouldn't be a hazard? That's where it really breaks for me.

Try watching the show with an empathetic viewpoint from some of these different characters and I think you'll find it much more enjoyable.

I appreciate what you're saying here.
But it's Felix's implausible behavior that confounds my ability to have any empathy for him whatsoever. I'm frustrated only because I want to have empathy but can't.

It's down right genius writing from Nolan and Joy.

The plot structure, to be sure, is intricate. I don't have a problem with that. It's mainly with the characters and dialogue.

And to top it all off, Hopkin's acting has been world class and the highlight of the show for me.

Hopkins by the very nature of his gravitas elevates just about any material he's given.

 

[Soulinertia]

I will agree Felix is my least favorite character in the series. Right under Sylvester.

The only solace I find with these two is the Alice in wonderland correlation. If Delores is Alice, and Maeve is the Red Queen, someone has to fulfill the rolls of TweedleDee and TweedleDum right?

 

[dascoyne]

I wouldn't be surprised at all if Felix and Sebastian were bots strategically placed to enable Mauve's escape should she develop the "sentience"/initiative. It can't be just coincidence they're both named after cats.

But excusing implausible behavior as "all part of a bigger plan" is the kind of Deus Ex Machina on par with "it was all just a dream."

 

[Gimpdiggity]

I've been of the opinion all along that Felix and Sylvester are hosts. To me that explains the ease with which Maeve manipulates them, and more so WHY nobody noticed Felix just escorting Maeve around the complex. None of the other techs noticed because, I feel, they are all hosts and programmed to only really pay attention to what they're doing and not what anyone else is doing.

The idea that all the hosts are techs also make sense to me from a business standpoint...no salary, no benefits, no turnover...

 

[dascoyne]

I always assumed it was not uncommon to transport hosts from one department to another by just walking them around. But I'm not sure my rationale holds up when she's going to some of the more "sensitive" departments or when nobody notices her reactions.

 

[Gimpdiggity]

I always assumed it was not uncommon to transport hosts from one department to another by just walking them around. But I'm not sure my rationale holds up when she's going to some of the more "sensitive" departments or when nobody notices her reactions.

There were two things that made that first "tour" he gave her make me think all the techs were hosts:
1. She was clothed. If he was wandering her around in clothes, in an area where all of the others are nude, that would make a fellow employee notice...unless they're programmed not to notice.
2. He was still in his butcher outfit when he got to the area where she would have been clothed. We haven't seen anyone else in that outfit in the "higher end" tech areas...so again, it seemed odd to me that nobody would notice, unless they're programmed not to.

Basically, in the area where HER appearance fit in, his didn't...and in the area where HIS appearance fit in, hers didn't.

So while I also think it's not uncommon for them to walk around, I feel THE WAY they were doing it seemed very uncommon.

 

[SpyderDan]

I haven't had any such issues with Felix and Sylvester, but I feel like my read of those characters has been somewhat different. I don't think they are hosts. If they were hosts, I would expect much more limitations on their personalities, and certainly none of the experimentation with the bird, or other risks we've seen them take. I can see the logic of using hosts instead of employing real people, but then I would expect that those hosts would know that they are hosts (like the one who escorted William to pick out his costume). It wouldn't be efficient to make them believe they are human, and have to pay them or house them or feed them.

One of the situations that helped establish their characters for me was when Sylvester mentioned wrapping up their work so he could get home to try out his new VR girlfriend. These are guys are low-level techs, doing the dirty work. They are low-rung employees, who work everyday with technology that they could never afford or partake in themselves. They get paid to patch up sex robots that rich A-holes abuse, rape, and kill. The other guy who Elsie manipulated by threatening to bust him for his necrophilia-like behavior with the hosts is another example of this.

To me, these guys are exactly the types who are ripe to be manipulated by Maeve. She's an intelligent and attractive female, designed specifically to manipulate men using sexuality, and they have to continually repair her naked body. They don't react rationally to the escalating situation with Maeve because they aren't rational hero characters who do the right thing or act in their own best interest. They are the nerdy, low self-esteem characters that get themselves in way over their heads when the beautiful naked woman starts to interact with them in ways that are totally foreign to the lives that they know. These are guys who can't get real human girlfriends, and probably wouldn't know what to do with one. Maeve showing signs of sentience and demonstrating the ability to go against her own programming, even to the point of using violence against them, is probably the most excitement these guys have ever seen. To act foolishly under such circumstances seems as human as it gets, to me.

I'm actually surprised that so many here don't seem to be relating to this, to be honest. I can remember plenty of times in my younger years that I let beautiful women manipulate me into doing risky, foolish, and dangerous things. There was certainly a point in my life where I could see myself making the same bad choices that they have, even if part of me realized how dumb it was at the time.

 

[Bryancd]

If Felix and Sylvester are Hosts then why program them to want to secretly have sex with other hosts?

 

[glunark]

Speaking of uncomfortable, if everything in westworld is designed to be shot and raped, its a bit bad that there are child hosts.

 

[Soulinertia]

If Felix and Sylvester are Hosts then why program them to want to secretly have sex with other hosts?

All the hosts have to have a cornerstone.

 

[dascoyne]

One of the situations that helped establish their characters for me was when Sylvester mentioned wrapping up their work so he could get home to try out his new VR girlfriend. These are guys are low-level techs, doing the dirty work. They are low-rung employees, who work everyday with technology that they could never afford or partake in themselves. They get paid to patch up sex robots that rich A-holes abuse, rape, and kill. The other guy who Elsie manipulated by threatening to bust him for his necrophilia-like behavior with the hosts is another example of this.

We already know that guests can "fall in love" with hosts and that hosts have been passing the Turing Test for years. I'm surprised the company doesn't foresee the possibility of techs falling into the same trap. I would think their employees would at least be properly vetted psychologically or even monitored.

There aren't any cameras in the factory at all? That makes no sense.

I'm actually surprised that so many here don't seem to be relating to this, to be honest. I can remember plenty of times in my younger years that I let beautiful women manipulate me into doing risky, foolish, and dangerous things. There was certainly a point in my life where I could see myself making the same bad choices that they have, even if part of me realized how dumb it was at the time.

And if that beautiful woman suddenly cut your friend's throat before your eyes you would have assisted her without hesitation? I can't relate to that part at all.