CT1138
Sr Member
Supplemental material has literally been a thing since the OT.
Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Post-release)
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DocWalker
New Member
I know what you mean. While it would be nice to get the specifics of everything in the movie, if they listed all of the specifics to everything, it would border on a ridiculous amount of exposition. That's why we got a general understanding in TFA (the movie) that R2 had the rest of the map and had awoken from low-power mode to provide it, while the novelization provided the specifics on the entire situation so it didn't clutter up the actual movie with even more exposition. That's at least how I personally understand it.
MrSouthpaw
Sr Member
Yes, your post is a giant parade of strawmen. I agree.
It doesn't matter if you were talking about the writing or the movie itself. The result would be the same.
1) You did say female get to define feminism. Also it's very possible for a male to defend Feminism while believing only females can define it, as you did.
2) You embarrassingly got caught being ignorant about her works while acting as an expert. Of course you'll deny it til you're blue in the face.
3) Your obsessive argument is that I misspelled bell hooks name. That's not a "ridiculous claim", so you're just trying to make mountains of molehills. You are also a hypocrite for not admitting you have reading comprehension issues. Especially since we have established a "demonstrable pattern" with Brahma's post.
Oh, look. Now you're trying to bring up every other argument you lost in the Trek topic. Maybe if you actually knew what you were talking about, instead of just reposting whatever they say at "women at warp", you might not lose arguments so readily.
But mostly you're a just a faux-feminist. If you really believed in bell hooks writings or that "The Patriarchy" is bad, you would not have sent me an angry rant of a PM, in which you personally insulted me. hooks labels that kind of behavior as "patriarchal". You either don't practice what hooks preaches, or you didn't read it and did not know your behavior was "patriarchal". Either way, you're a hypocrite or phony.
You want to argue about everything. Why else would you be bringing up posts from half a year ago? Absolutely no criticism you leveled at me required it.
jlee562
Sr Member
Exactly, it's irrelevant which makes " Silly like Rose saving Finn in the name of love?" a red herring....that's what they are, irrelevant to this particular discussion.
Because where does Poe think he's taking the ship? Even if the Canto Bight/slicer/'tech-the-tech' worked out (it didn't), they don't really have any other place to go. Not in the least because the third act actually happens, but also because in-universe, they don't have many allies.
So "good writing" that isn't "silly" = the character doing the same thing in the first and second acts? Even after being admonished by one of the most important characters in the film And series overall?
The Holdo plot may not be perfect, but I just don't see how you "fix" it by letting Poe in on the plan.
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Mr Webber
Master Member
DarthLee
Sr Member
My friend, I was born in 1975, I have a whole room of SW, including (almost) every game, I know the words to the OT (which irritates my wife). I never had to pick up a book, to fill in the blanks, it was purely supplemental. The map, that R2 obviously had programmed into his matrix, was deliberate. Everything R2 has stored, is intentional.
Zuiun
Sr Member
For what it's worth, I did not have to read any supplemental material to pick up on the fact that it was not a map to Luke, but rather a map to his last known destination.
jlee562
Sr Member
Dude, I brought the receipts.
If I say mansplaining again, will you take your ball and go home like you did the first time?
1) no, I didn't. And let's be clear here, I'm the one that left you alone when you told me to leave you alone. I didn't PM you again, I didn't respond to your posts of the forum. You were the one who decided that you wanted to blow up my opinions on the board again. And even more ironically, you did it with a bell hooks jab, the same subject you are now accusing me of some obsession over.
And conveniently, you can only point to posts which have been scrubbed from the board to claim you "won" any debate.
If any third party wants to point out where I erred in those previous interactions, I welcome any criticism publicly or privately.
2) you embarrassingly got caught claiming that a link I posted didn't define feminism, it did. You also got caught confusing gender identity and sexual preference.
3) oh brahma's post, the one where you also wrongly assumed he meant "insolent?"
P.s. You're now on the ignore list. Don't bother replying.
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DarthLee
Sr Member
Its not who or where the map is leading to. Its the map itself.
So R2 uploaded a map and was ditched, floating in space, while Luke sank his X wing?
I must have missed a bunch... im going to have to watch TFA again
DocWalker
New Member
On this particular subject, I'll call back to what I responded with in a different post a few pages back. In TFA, Han said that there were a lot of rumors and stories about where Luke went after Ben turned, saying that "the people who knew him the best think he went looking for the first Jedi temple." He didn't go there for knowledge or anything, as the TLJ Visual Dictionary revealed that the ancient Jedi texts that were in the Force tree on Ahch-To came from Luke himself, as it said that "Luke's travels allowed him to collect and assemble ancient scriptures containing lost Jedi wisdom and abilities." Essentially, he went to the first Jedi Temple on Ahch-To to die, as he said in the movie, and to bring the entire Jedi order full circle by bringing the ancient Jedi texts he had found in his journeys throughout the years back to their origin and dying as "the last Jedi" where the Jedi Order began all those years ago. To add more to that, I view it as Yoda's words convincing him that what he was doing was a mistake and that he needed to stop blaming and shaming himself for what happened.
As Yoda said to Luke in TLJ: "Heeded my words not, did you? Pass on what you have learned. Strength, mastery, hmm. But weakness, folly, failure also. Yes, failure most of all. The greatest teacher, failure is. Luke, we are what they grow beyond. That is the true burden of all masters.” That quote, and the conversation with Yoda as a whole, convinced Luke that he was wrong in his mission to "end the Jedi" and that he wasn't going to be the last of the Jedi anymore. That's at least how I view it all, which may change depending on the further material that will be provided once the TLJ novelization comes out.
Read the link to the Rian Johnson interview I posted one page back.
DocWalker
New Member
No, R2 has had his portion of the map since he downloaded it from the archives from the Empire during the Death Star infiltration mission in ANH. However, Luke did leave him behind while he went off into exile, which is when R2 put himself into low-power mode for the 5-6 years that Luke was in exile.
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I did, Bryan. Thank you for providing the article. It was a good read.
Zuiun
Sr Member
Where are you getting R2 was ditched from? The inference is that R2 was left behind to begin with.
And is your issue with the map the fact that it exists at all? It's pretty clearly stated in TFA that both the Resistance and the First Order have at least portions of the map. To me, that implies it was not created by Luke (i.e. he wasn't leaving a map to his location), but it was something from stored archives. While it's certainly an interesting detail that R2 picked up the map from the first Death Star, it doesn't really matter how he got it. If the information was out there somewhere, I don't find it implausible that Luke, who had been searching for it, would have had R2 store the data he had found.
Really, the only question here is why wouldn't Luke have taken his "little buddy" with him? And I guess that's something we'd have to ask JJ Abrams...
laszlo
Sr Member
Thanks for that
It's a shame that is was all so badly written, as the story ideas are really interesting, just poor characterisation and writing to explain motivations etc. Why should the Visual Dictionary be needed to add depth to the movie - crazy!
DarthLee
Sr Member
Much reading, have yet, I to do.
There we go with that "novelization", again... I dont want a "fill in the blanks" book to explain a movie.. I want the movie to do it.
Although I completely agree,
But what the hell has Luke been doing on that Island? Yoda could have straightened his butt out along time ago, when he confronted Kylo, Luke tried to fake out everyone, in the fact that he lost all force senses, I call it BS!!..bad writing...
I blame Yoda for all this.
DocWalker
New Member
Thanks for that
I think that echoes back to my previous statement in that while it would be nice to get the specifics of everything in the movie, if they listed all of the specifics to everything outright, it would be a ridiculous amount of exposition, even more than there already was in the movie. This is why I think they provide a general understanding of everything in the movie and leave most of the minute details to the novelizations, where they can provide all the specifics details they want with little restriction.
DocWalker
New Member
Luke had been living his life of solitude until he inevitably died. He cut himself off from the Force and everyone else because of regret, shame, and general blaming of himself for what happened with Ben, which is why he wanted to end the Jedi for good by being the last one. The last one to make these mistakes that Jedi have consistently made over the years, the last one to lose their apprentice or family to the dark side, the last one to be tempted by the dark side for even a moment that ended up costing him everything. Again, that's at least how I interpreted it all.
DarthLee
Sr Member
Like I said... ditched..
First, to me, It does matter how he got it. And how the entire Resistance has 90%, but not the last 10% that R2 has. I think, the fact that, R2 has the last part of a map to The Last Jedi Temple, tells a story, and could have brought out a completely compelling story, just like the Graflex. The whole R2 shut down part, was confusing.
CT1138
Sr Member
I just considered R2 shutting down as his version of Droid depression. He was miffed Luke didn't take him with him to Ach-To, after all they've been through. As far as we know R2 has never had his memory wiped, allowing the astromech's AI to develop a personality of its own. I assumed that the news that the rest of the map had been recovered was enough to wake R2 up out of his funk and let him be R2 again.
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