Star Trek Into Darkness (Post-release)

On the issue of the "homages", I think it's a little different when you're doing an homage to the same series that begat the original. The thing that Tarantino, Lucas, etc. do is to apply homages to their own new material in a way that brings in new elements.

But imagine if, in the next Bond movie, Daniel Craig is strapped to a table with a laser beam about to slice him in half starting at his crotch, and engages in a dialogue that ends with "Do you expect me to talk?" "No, Mr. Bond, I expect you to die!" It'd be cheesy, too "on-the-nose," etc.

Homages work when they're brought in to something other than the thing from which they come. Referencing an older film in the series by recreating a scene from that older film seems less like an homage and more like laziness.

Personally, I found the "homage" moments in STID to be some of the least pleasurable moments. The rest of the movie wasn't bad at all, but it felt more like the film didn't trust itself to stand on its own, and so went back to the well by recreating an older movie's scene, when they could've simply left off with the villain being a super-soldier guy named Khan. It didn't kill the movie for me, but it struck me as...hmm....weak, I guess. Fan service for the sake of fan service, which left this fan feeling poorly serviced. :)
 
Solo4114 said:
On the issue of the "homages", I think it's a little different when you're doing an homage to the same series that begat the original. The thing that Tarantino, Lucas, etc. do is to apply homages to their own new material in a way that brings in new elements.

But imagine if, in the next Bond movie, Daniel Craig is strapped to a table with a laser beam about to slice him in half starting at his crotch, and engages in a dialogue that ends with "Do you expect me to talk?" "No, Mr. Bond, I expect you to die!" It'd be cheesy, too "on-the-nose," etc.

Homages work when they're brought in to something other than the thing from which they come. Referencing an older film in the series by recreating a scene from that older film seems less like an homage and more like laziness.

Personally, I found the "homage" moments in STID to be some of the least pleasurable moments. The rest of the movie wasn't bad at all, but it felt more like the film didn't trust itself to stand on its own, and so went back to the well by recreating an older movie's scene, when they could've simply left off with the villain being a super-soldier guy named Khan. It didn't kill the movie for me, but it struck me as...hmm....weak, I guess. Fan service for the sake of fan service, which left this fan feeling poorly serviced. :)
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But Skyfall had its internal dialogue moments that broke the 4th wall too, E.G.the DB5, and some of Q's comments "What did you expect? An exploding pen?").

I definitely agree with you that some of the fan service was weak (or as I said, "shoehorned in,") but I'm also saying I didn't mind it so much that it took me out of the film. I chuckled a bit, because honestly, Trek to me always has a bit of campiness (like the Gorn fight, or Spock's marshmallow dispenser, or any of Spock's lovely passive aggressive one liners to McCoy).
 
dbalschi said:
Last time I checked Star Trek involves space. Meteorites are in space. Is there anything you don't nitpick?
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I'm just trying to figure out the relevance on why a meteorite instead of something more relevant to the film. Sure, meteorites come from space, but that's just generalizing, not being specific to the film in question. Take a look at this set that was exclusive to Best Buy.

trek09badges_zpsd205ca47.jpg


See? That's a freaking awesome set. I myself happen to own it. You can actually see those badges, along with their different divisions in the actual film. This "Meteorite" edition makes more sense for the "Super Mario Bros." movie than it does Star Trek Into Darkness. Why not a Starfleet ring? A vial of Khan's blood? A mini replica of the alien scroll that Kirk took? Why not Carol Marcus' underwear? There have been domestic DVDs that included a pair of women's underwear before and underwear was the highlight of her character.
 
dbalschi said:
Last time I checked Star Trek involves space. Meteorites are in space.
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Should be an homage to Star Trek The Motion Picture... Lt Ilia, "object is an asteroid". :lol
Need to rename it the asteroid edition but I'm happy with the special phaser edition.
 
:lol Oh c'mon now! :lol


Evidentally you were not around here for the Prequel threads..

I assure you Uncle George was taken to the woodshed and beaten to within an inch of his life!

Same with Tarentino.


jlee562 said:
Most folks don't attack Lucas and Tarantino with the same kinds of vitriol and rhetoric which JJ received in this thread for doing what is essentially the same thing.
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Well, for one, I thought it was pretty clear I was talking about ANH.

As far as Tarantino, I'm not saying he never takes flak, but the point is that by in large, most people don't grandstand over such homages.

Thirdly, the RPF is not a representative sample.
 
Yeah ANH was ripped too!

Not just talking about the RPF either.

You know as well as I do that any Film will not please everybody, but to say that JJ and into darkness are getting more vitriol and rhetoric is just plain silly!




jlee562 said:
Well, for one, I thought it was pretty clear I was talking about ANH.

As far as Tarantino, I'm not saying he never takes flak, but the point is that by in large, most people don't grandstand over such homages.

Thirdly, the RPF is not a representative sample.
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No, I'm not. I'm more than willing to clarify my point, but you're not actually contradicting my argument by pointing out that Tarantino takes flak, or by pretending to rebut a point I never made.
 
Jeyl said:
I'm just trying to figure out the relevance on why a meteorite instead of something more relevant to the film. Sure, meteorites come from space, but that's just generalizing, not being specific to the film in question.

This "Meteorite" edition makes more sense for the "Super Mario Bros." movie than it does Star Trek Into Darkness. Why not a Starfleet ring? A vial of Khan's blood? A mini replica of the alien scroll that Kirk took? Why not Carol Marcus' underwear? There have been domestic DVDs that included a pair of women's underwear before and underwear was the highlight of her character.
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Dude it's the only one like it and it's for a contest. It's not like it's a mass produced collectors edition being sold everywhere.
 
Maybe I was expecting too much from it, I don't know, but what summed up the whole approach of the movie was Kirk's "repairs" to the warp drive. In WOK Spock is seen entering the compartment, putting on gloves, and working methodically to fix the problem. In ID Kirk simply kicks the s!!t out of it.
 
Mektar said:
How many times dont we fix something by kicking or hitting it. Its still an effective way :p
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You've obviously never seen me under the hood of the '78 Camaro I used to have. Drove the thing over the quarter million mile mark before I sold it as parts (got a 77 Pontiac Grand Prix for free with only 48k miles on it). That was a long, long time ago...
 
clactonite said:
Maybe I was expecting too much from it, I don't know, but what summed up the whole approach of the movie was Kirk's "repairs" to the warp drive. In WOK Spock is seen entering the compartment, putting on gloves, and working methodically to fix the problem. In ID Kirk simply kicks the s!!t out of it.
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Were you equally as disappointed when Marty banged his head against the steering wheel and the Delorean came to life in the climax of BTTF? ;)

(I know the context is different with BTTF as it was a sc-fi film with some strong comedic elements.)

And I'm not saying that Kirk "kicking" the "engine" until it aligned was meant as comedy (although somebody here will probably say they thought it was a bad joke :rolleyes :lol).


This is just a different take on the same scenario of "main character sacrifices themselves to save the day."

Kind of like the scene in nuBSG where the captain of the Pegasus goes into the engine room (which has been sealed and running out of oxygen) to turn some lever that is stuck, which will save the ship- he hits it with a hammer.

But I took the scene as this:

The "right" descision would be to allow Scotty to go in and fix the problem as he is the engineer (what does Kirk know about fixing the engine of the ship? Certainly not as much as Scotty would).

However Kirk has decided that it is time for him to take responsibilty for EVERYTHING that has happened. Yes the person going into the radiation filled engine room will die, however everyone is going to die if someone doesn't, and this entire situation is Kirk's fault.

So Kirk is saying "I'm a screw up." And I have to finally answer for being a screw up. And no one else but myself is going to get killed under my command because of my screw ups.

So kicking the engine is also symbolic: it is not only the last act of a man desperate to save his crew, it is Kirk "kicking" at all the mistakes he has made not only as Captain of the Enterprise, but essentially everything he has done wrong since he was born.

Each "kick" he gives represents him trying to atone for his sins.


My take on it. ;)


Kevin
 
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