Vader cheek mark (c-scar)

[Qui-Gonzalez]

Can we at least agree that the eFX helmet, and the research into the Baker mold is a HUGE game changer?

 

[Too Much Garlic]

Can we at least agree that the eFX helmet, and the research into the Baker mold is a HUGE game changer?

For the availability of something that high end to the masses? Absolutely. Also why I ordered one.

 

[GINO]

Really after all this, we still aren't going to agree on the c-scar?

 

[Juansith]

You guys are methodical, im sure there must be pics of all the TM process.
If what VM says is true ( im not saying at all is not), imagine such discovery when at first you were frustrated that you didnt find lots of detail and after a little work (that came from another gentleman) you face mask turned out to be so detailed and clear.

Wouldve felt like finding TutanKhamons tomb, and theres a whole lot of pics of that though it was on 1922.

Its not clear to me though if VM had the hunch of those details even being there or if it surprised him when JRX told him, its also not clear to me if VM found out over the phone, before , in the middle or after the process of ripping the black paint left over was done, or if he was there the whole time.

Sounds just too perfect somehow that from one pic to the other we suddenly have the best Vader face mask ever.

... like when my girlfriend went on vacation with her parents being a size B and she returned a month and a half later with double Ds, she claimed she just grew up, and shes 23.... YOU KNOW THERE MUST BE SOMETHING FISHY BOUT THAT!

 

[GINO]

Maybe you should post some comparisons so we can analyze.

 

[ArtisanProps]

I'm glad Vadermania posted verifying that the image of the cheek is
not photoshopped.. I personally think if there were black resin on the
cheek, it would be very visible in the picture just like it is on the brow
and socket. Since you can't see one smidgen of black resin or discoloration
on the cheek, I'm gonna have to agree and say the detail was added, just
like a few of the other details that were pointed out..

 

[Qui-Gonzalez]

That's the thing, Gino. People's minds are made up. The only thing we can do as senior members is to get ALL of the information out there for everyone to see and decide for themselves. There are no "camps" or "cliques" if you boil it down to "This is the info...you decide".

This thread, and the eFX have given the information. My personal opinion is things were added to the TM after vadermania gave it to Jesper. I could very well be wrong and would readily accept that if evidence is given. There is too large a broken chain of custody from the time that vadermania gave it over to Jesper to have the tusks repaired and when Jorg did the mold.

I am NOT calling anyone else's word into question. I am going by the evidence before my eyes and NOT any hearsay. What I see is the Baker mold, which touched the screen used helmet, does NOT have a C-scar. The C-scar on the TM is a HUGE divot. Nothing even closely resembling the inside of the Baker mold.

That is my perception of the evidence we have. Not hearsay, not anything else. These are the photos we have and far greater evidence than we have ever had....and frankly, those photos are the ONLY indisputable evidence we have.

Draw your own conclusions. Your mileage may vary.

 

[Zombie Killer]

I'm glad Vadermania posted verifying that the image of the cheek is
not photoshopped.. I personally think if there were black resin on the
cheek, it would be very visible in the picture just like it is on the brow
and socket. Since you can't see one smidgen of black resin or discoloration
on the cheek, I'm gonna have to agree and say the detail was added, just
like a few of the other details that were pointed out..

+1 exactly, you can't even see a smigden of tint difference or anything. There is nothing there.

 

[Clutch]

I could have sworn JRX documented the removal of the black goop with photos. I can't find them to save my life. Am I dreaming this?

 

[voice in the crowd]

My personal opinion is things were added to the TM after vadermania gave it to Jesper.

What I see is the Baker mold, which touched the screen used helmet, does NOT have a C-scar. The C-scar on the TM is a HUGE divot. Nothing even closely resembling the inside of the Baker mold.

I have to disagree about the C scar being added. To make that addition and make it so close to what we see on screen is pretty much impossible.

I would also say that Jesper replaced the broken sections of the tusk tubes and honestly just look at them on the TM they are not the greatest. How could somebody so good at adding minute details to the cheek not make such a great job on the parts that had to be repaired?

The parts Jesper repaired IMHO are the biggest flaws on the TM.

The logic being used is if it isn't on the Baker mould then it just wasn't there.

The UK mould has the grill impression left in the cast between the teeth. Bakers mould does not. Is there anybody who cannot see the grill inbetween the teeth on screen? Anybody?

I have said it before in the other thread more than one thing got changed on the Baker mould and they are glaringly obvious when you look at what has been changed. Again though most of the changes make no difference to making a finished helmet from that mould because most of the changes are parts you would cut out when making a helmet.

The prime example is the horrible bumpy gap between the mask and the lenses - I showed the adhesive bumps in the other thread in a reasonably clear picture. Rick Baker clearly put some kind of filler into these gaps as there are small under cuts and they are ugly. Parts of the original lines at the bumps still show in the exact same places on the US mould but mostly are filled in. The lenses on both the US and UK helmet match almost perfectly with each other and the screen.

I still do not see that there is any value in pretending Rick Baker never cleaned the Vader helmet and gave it a bit of TLC before he cast it. He kept the shape THE look and made it closer to what the helmet was like at the start of filming. He done an awesome job and testiment to that is his mould still exists 30+ years later providing an awesome Vader helmet for the fans.

@Kaane there is no C scar on the picture Lambotour posted because it is not a TM it is a VP you can see the eye adhesive, lenses and grill between the teeth on that mask all feature missing from the TM. The tubes are also intact.

@ Clutch I think it was documented also but don't have the photos myself. That is why I asked Tom if he had them and if he could repost them if he could.

Cheers Chris

 

[KaanE]

@Kaane there is no C scar on the picture Lambotour posted because it is not a TM it is a VP you can see the eye adhesive, lenses and grill between the teeth on that mask all feature missing from the TM. The tubes are also intact.

Hi Chris. It was a rhetoric question because he said:

"I know some of you will say this has nothing to do with the C scar, but it does. This show gino is wrong about his own pieces. If he makes claims about his own pieces that are now being shown as pure nonsense, then what does it say about what he is saying now. The devil is in the details."

And all what I saw in his post was an attack to Gino, nothing to do with the C-Scar.

 

[Qui-Gonzalez]

If he repaired the tusks, what makes adding in that C-scar so impossible? Like I said, the evidence is there. If there is counter evidence shown, like Clutch has alluded to, I will be swayed a bit. As nothing has surfaced and the ONLY shots of the raw TM we have are the ones we have, sans C-scar, I cannot accept that the resin "bondo" was there and hiding such a huge blemish, but masking others seen on screen. Again, these are MY opinions alone. They do not make yours, nor mine incorrect...just differing.

Some of you have worked in resin. Have you ever seen any you can scrape off with a fingernail or toothpick? That is an honest question since I have not handled ANY resin and am curious. I would imagine that anything you could peel off, vadermania would have found it to be soft just from the acetone he used.

 

[voice in the crowd]

Hi Chris. It was a rhetoric question because he said:

Ah ok sorry I see your point. I thought you had confused masks by accident. My apologies.

Cheers Chris

 

[voice in the crowd]

Again, these are MY opinions alone. They do not make yours, nor mine incorrect...just differing.

Yeah you are right. Hopefully someone will post up some further pics to help out. Fingers crossed

Cheers Chris

 

[KaanE]

Some of you have worked in resin. Have you ever seen any you can scrape off with a fingernail or toothpick? That is an honest question since I have not handled ANY resin and am curious. I would imagine that anything you could peel off, vadermania would have found it to be soft just from the acetone he used.

Yes. Soemtimes GelCoat doesn't stick correctly to the mould or has a little hole and the polyester resin you apply after the GelCoat goes through the GelCoat and sticks to it. But it can be removed with flat screwdriver or something like that. That happened to me in my first castings a few years ago... I think the resin doesn't stick correctly to the GelCoat because of the release agent?

I don't why it happens, but it happens.

 

[Qui-Gonzalez]

Thanks KaanE. That does lend itself to the possibility that it was there.

 

[Juansith]

Yes. Soemtimes GelCoat doesn't stick correctly to the mould or has a little hole and the polyester resin you apply after the GelCoat goes through the GelCoat and sticks to it. But it can be removed with flat screwdriver or something like that. That happened to me in my first castings a few years ago... I think the resin doesn't stick correctly to the GelCoat because of the release agent?

I don't why it happens, but it happens.

Do you see that situation happening on the Tm original pic we have?

 

[KaanE]

Do you see that situation happening on the Tm original pic we have?

It looks to be the same situation because it is shinny and the same thing can be seen IN the eyebrow (the same zone), I mean, it feels the same in that pic, but or the caster did use black coloured resin, or it comes from a 2nd GelCoat "coat", because if using normal polyester resin (fiberglass resin) it would be a dark brown, not black.

 

[GINO]

Absolutely not.
If it was a get coat situation, then the gel coat broken off would have been what touched the surface of the mold.

 

[GINO]

If you can look at the pic I posted and think that there is even the slightest possibility that what you are seeing is black resin on the cheek then I don't know what to tell you. Only someone with absolutely no experience in actually making fiberglass props could fathom such a thing.
Same goes for the addition of the scar, same goes for the addition of the paint separation line.
I've not seen anyone address this nor show any pics to the contrary.
Why, because showing pics would make their argument even more weak (if you can imagine that).
I'm not surprised in the least that pics still have not been shown nor do I expect them to be.


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