Vader cheek mark (c-scar)

[Juansith]

It looks to be the same situation because it is shinny and the same thing can be seen IN the eyebrow (the same zone), I mean, it feels the same in that pic, but or the caster did use black coloured resin, or it comes from a 2nd GelCoat "coat", because if using normal polyester resin (fiberglass resin) it would be a dark brown, not black.

Its hard for me to see the resin in the C scar area, at least not as clear as the resin on the eye socket.

Do you see resin in the cheek area?, what does it look like?

 

[Qui-Gonzalez]

Well, I am that guy with ZERO experience laying up fiberglass. Again, I want to see pics of a UK mold helmet before I go even thinking that there was a huge pock mark in Vader's face. Your photo shows nothing, or at least nothing to the extent of what the is shown on the TM.

Show me, don't tell me.

 

[KaanE]

Absolutely not.
If it was a get coat situation, then the gel coat broken off would have been what touched the surface of the mold.

It can happen, it happened before to me. I'm sure it happened Here is a pic where you can see how the resin wnt through the Gel Coat. It's not as big as the TM one, but it's also a smaller piece (it's a Fett knee).

 

[GINO]

Its hard for me to see the resin in the C scar area, at least not as clear as the resin on the eye socket.

It should be hard to see, because there is nothing there.

 

[GINO]

It can happen, it happened before to me. I'm sure it happened Here is a pic where you can see how the resin wnt through the Gel Coat. It's not as big as the TM one, but it's also a smaller piece (it's a Fett knee).

What does that have to do with suggesting that the entire cheek area of this mask was covered in a second layer of gel coat that somehow so perfectly came between the detailed 1st layer of gelcoat and the mold surface.
That's total nonsense.

 

[KaanE]

Its hard for me to see the resin in the C scar area, at least not as clear as the resin on the eye socket.

Do you see resin in the cheek area?, what does it look like?

Nope, the C-Scar are is cleaner than a new iPhone. No resin anywhere. At least I can't see it. There is nothing covering anything. No C-Scar is there.

 

[KaanE]

What does that have to do with suggesting that the entire cheek area of this mask was covered in a second layer of gel coat.
That's total nonsense.

Instant No Button! Star Wars funnies FTW!

I never said that! I was speaking about the eyebrow area not the cheek! :lol

 

[GINO]

Instant No Button! Star Wars funnies FTW!

I never said that! I was speaking about the eyebrow area not the cheek! :lol

Oh in that case I agree with you completely. :thumbsup

 

[Zombie Killer]

OK like a crack head i'm back. After rereading vadermanias post again a few things stick out to me. Especially the quotes below. In the first Paragraph, we have hearsay about where the helmet is from. "According to the previous owner". Did he provide proof of his claims? This is the ame guy trying to get as much money as possible for it correct? Ever deal with a used car salesman. They are very honest.

In the 4th paragaph below "To be honest, when I examined the faceplate after the paint had been fully removed, I was slightly disappointed, because I thought there was a lot of detail missing." This speaks alot. That is all i will say.

The last paragraph is really odd. WHY if the resin was so easy to come off with a fingernail did it take Jasper forever to remove it?

And then vadermania points out the black resin on the eyebrow. The resin is black as black unlike the faceplate material. You can see the black resin clear as day on the eyebrow but somehow it changed tint on the cheek so that it's invisible?

Just an observation.

According to the previous owner and based on my personal research, the so-called "TM ESB Vader helmet" has been made for the production of ESB by the very same person who produced the majority of fibreglass helmets for the movie.


There were two layers of paint (gunmetal and black) on it, a heavy layer of light grey primer, plus some reddish bondo - all this has been removed by me using acetone.

Let's have a look at the photo below - the one entitled "stripped down TM casting all surfaces sanded down". This image shows the ORIGINAL TM faceplate after the paint, primer and reddish bondo has been removed by me via acetone. This image is NOT photoshopped. Perhaps it is a bit out of focus in the area in question.

To be honest, when I examined the faceplate after the paint had been fully removed, I was slightly disappointed, because I thought there was a lot of detail missing. But I also noticed that there was other material slopped onto the surface of the faceplate which could not be removed via acetone. It was some sort of black resin or resin bondo. You can spot it very clearly in the image below, sticking on Vaders right eyebrow.



After I have sent the original faceplate to Jesper (with the intention only to restore the broken tusks), he found out, after further examination, that the black resin (which in fact was applied very sloppily on the faceplate) could carefully be scratched away with a fingernail or a toothpick. The black resin was found on many areas of the faceplate, most notably on the eyebrows and in the eyebrow sockets, the nosebridge, the mouth area, Vaders right cheek and the area around the left tearduct. It took Jesper literally ages to remove this material, revealing the detail underneath.

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[Juansith]

Lets go through logic as much as we can:

Minority report (which won an academy award for best picture EVER), has a dialogue when lots of evidence pics are found on the supposedly killer of Tom Cruises child.
Colin Farrell (oscar for best Actor in History of mankind) then says, this is " An orgy of evidence".

That is not the case here, but thinking as Collin (and being the clever chap he is), i realize that the only evidence we have is relevant to the C scar, why?, because the C scar is relevant to the lineage of the Vader helmet, but obviously there must be other interesting details on the other cheek,the cheek we never see.
Some experts might say, theres nothing on the other cheek, that may be correct, maybe not.

Ive looked for pics that doesnt focus on the C scar area, but on the other side,yet ive found none, all the pics focus on that one area.In some part because that is the angle that we see clearly on the Tantive scene, but also we get to see some shapes on the corner of the Vader left cheek.
Yet no one seem to be comparing those.

I know the C scar is like the Mona Lisa smile but we cannot find the truth in that feature because thats were the most focusing is going to be, how about looking on the other cheek, find similiarities and differences.

As a photographer might say, you cannot tell light direction by looking at the light, but by looking its shadow.

 

[GINO]

Here's a pic of the other side of the original TM casting.
You can see more clean up that was performed on the other cheek as well.
(not that this has any bearing on the addition of the c-scar).

.

 

[vadermania]

Clearly you can see on the original TM (non photoshopped image), that the c-scar and nose bridge paint line details are not there.
Clearly, those details are not covered up by the same black resin you see on the brow.
These details only show up on the subsequent castings. Why? Because JRX added them in.

There were parts on the faceplate where it looked like the black resin was slapped on and left there untouched (such as the eyebrow example). On other areas it appeared like it was added in a more "professional" manner (such as the mouth area, especially on the teeth itself). In some areas (for example Vaders right cheek and the area around Vaders left tear duct), the added black resin was sanded to achieve a smoother surface.

Clearly you can see on the original TM (non photoshopped image), that there are worms in the cheek area (which is correct for a ESB style UK mold casting).
They are only removed in the subsequent castings. Why? Because JRX removed them.

I remember vaguely that Jesper called me to ask about if he should leave the worms in or get rid of them (on the original faceplate). At that time, we indeed tried to get as close to ANH as possible, so I gave permission to remove them.

Personally, I would love to compare a totally unaltered/unsanded UK casting to the TM faceplate. That would perhaps answer some open questions.

 

[Qui-Gonzalez]

Personally, I would love to compare a totally unaltered/unsanded UK casting to the TM faceplate. That would perhaps answer some open questions.

If you pull that off, be sure and share. I hae a feeling owners of UK mold helmets are VERY reluctant to show them.

 

[GINO]

Thanks Tom.
Do you have any pics of the original TM that show the cheek area in question throughout jesper's restoration process?
Before, during, after (all of the above).


.

 

[Juansith]

Here's a pic of the other side of the original TM casting.
You can see more clean up that was performed on the other cheek as well.
(not that this has any bearing on the addition of the c-scar).


.

Thanks Gino, for some reason i cannot see the pic.
oh there it is, it was loading it...wow huge.
thank you Gino

 

[KaanE]

Now it works.

 

[vadermania]

Thanks Tom.
Do you have any pics of the original TM that show the cheek area in question throughout jesper's restoration process?
Before, during, after (all of the above).


.

Unfortunately, no. I took a handful of pics after acetone orgy, most of them have been shown here already. I have not been in touch with Jesper for probably more than 3 years now, I do remember that he has documented the removal of the added-on black resin (or whatever that material really was).

May I ask what you think has been cleaned up on the other cheek (other than the broken tusk tube and that slab of black resin on the upper part of the cheek, where it bends toward the nose)) in the other pic that you have just posted? That pic is also one from the few that I have taken in person after the paint stripping process, before I sent the faceplate to Jesper.

 

[vaderdarth]

gino, I just wanna say how much I look forward to seeing your mannequin once this eFX helmet hits the street. Your display is certainly in the top 5 of all ANH displays, but from what you've said, your display should be over the top after that helmet crowns the mannequin. I know you will be sporting your own untainted casting from the Baker mould and I wanna see how your own personal paint job and detailing matches up with the screen helmet. Peace,

Dave

 

[cboath]

The last paragraph is really odd. WHY if the resin was so easy to come off with a fingernail did it take Jasper forever to remove it?

It's easy and fast to remove something with a fingernail - if your fingernail fits into the area. If the area is smaller, it takes more effort and attention and a tool. If you have to use something like a dental tool to get the stuff off it's going to take a while because a misstep with the tool scratches the helmet.

There also could have been a ton of places the stuff was at.

I wasn't involved in the process at all, and I don't really have a dog in the fight. Just pointing it out.

 

[GromitFan]

VaderMania,

Thank you for chiming in. Speaking only for myself, your comments have that "this all makes sense" vibe to them without feeling overly manufactured or assigning motivations and/or hidden agendas to anyone's actions.

It is my favorite kind of post here.

Before things get too confusing regarding the "TM" ESB Vader helmet, I'd like to clarify/add/correct/comment on a few things which I think are of importance. Just for clarification, TM are my initials, I am known as vadermania on the forums, and I work as a VFX Supervisor in the movie business in Germany.

According to the previous owner and based on my personal research, the so-called "TM ESB Vader helmet" has been made for the production of ESB by the very same person who produced the majority of fibreglass helmets for the movie. It was made to be used as a lighting reference on set, before the actors were called in. If it has ever been used as such is not proven yet. For now, I am not able to present waterproof documents regarding it's authenticity, but this might change in the near future.



Partly correct. I never touched the dome (it still has it's original paint on it), only the faceplate after it has been separated from the dome.

There were two layers of paint (gunmetal and black) on it, a heavy layer of light grey primer, plus some reddish bondo - all this has been removed by me using acetone. The first part I stripped (as a test actually) was the area around the tabs. I could see no traces of sanding in that area, which encouraged me to continue with the stripping.

Pictures of the faceplate in this state are already floating around on this forum - some photoshopped, some not. Let's have a look at the photo below - the one entitled "stripped down TM casting all surfaces sanded down". This image shows the ORIGINAL TM faceplate after the paint, primer and reddish bondo has been removed by me via acetone. This image is NOT photoshopped. Perhaps it is a bit out of focus in the area in question. What you can see here is that the faceplate has been sanded in some areas, but not completely. For example, the areas that have been sanded most extensively are Vaders right side cheek above the upper tusk tube, the area right from Vaders right tear duct and Vaders left eyebrow. I addition to that, the complete forehead above the eyebrows has been sanded lightly.

To be honest, when I examined the faceplate after the paint had been fully removed, I was slightly disappointed, because I thought there was a lot of detail missing. But I also noticed that there was other material slopped onto the surface of the faceplate which could not be removed via acetone. It was some sort of black resin or resin bondo. You can spot it very clearly in the image below, sticking on Vaders right eyebrow.



Not correct. JRX/Jesper worked on the ORIGINAL faceplate. After I have sent the original faceplate to Jesper (with the intention only to restore the broken tusks), he found out, after further examination, that the black resin (which in fact was applied very sloppily on the faceplate) could carefully be scratched away with a fingernail or a toothpick. The black resin was found on many areas of the faceplate, most notably on the eyebrows and in the eyebrow sockets, the nosebridge, the mouth area, Vaders right cheek and the area around the left tearduct. It took Jesper literally ages to remove this material, revealing the detail underneath.

Of course there were areas which had imperfections such as air bubbles and tiny holes - those were filled in by Jesper.



The ORIGINAL, restored faceplate was molded by Joerg. At that time, the faceplate had two details incoroprated to identify recasts. One was a little sculpted "TM ESB" logo. When the faceplate was molded for the second time, these details were removed prior to molding.

.

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