Vader cheek mark (c-scar)

[Juansith]

Correct. It was added to the TM. If you look at pictures of the stripped original its not there.

Is the VP derived from the TM?

 

[Davy Jones]

No I dont believe so. They are two different helmets connected only by the fact that they are UK mold style helmets. Their similarities are explained by the fact that they connect to the original UK mold in some way. Their differences can be explained by how many generations removed they are from that mold and what was done to their "father" castings before they were made.

 

[Juansith]

No I dont believe so. They are two different helmets connected only by the fact that they are UK mold style helmets. Their differences can be explained by how many generations removed they are from that mold and what was done to their "father" castings before they were made.

So was the paint line in the VP nose also added as well as they did with the TM?

 

[Davy Jones]

No. It was always there in the VP. It may not be an original ANH paint line however. I have heard it said it could be there because the original VP's father casting was a painted casting. But that is not my own theory. I dont know the definite answer.

 

[Juansith]

So the VP has clearly no scar whatsoever.
The TM original photo doesnt either.
also, the TD doesnt have a scar.
A+B+C
= No scar.

 

[vaderdarth]

But the TD was never stripped of it's paint. You can't make such a claim as there is no proof.

 

[Davy Jones]

Correct the TD was never stripped according to its owner. Is the scar hiding beneath the paint?
I do not know for sure. Seeing that all these other castings seem to lack one I would not think so.

But the owner has also made great claims about the scar being there. IIRC he once posted some large pictures of it over at the prop den. I wish he would repost them so we can see. Did anyone save them?
If we cant see the TD's scar in the paint I find it odd it shows up in castings of it.

Off to bed now. Catch you all later.

 

[AnsonJames]

The photos that Davy Jones posted were photos I took of my VP - definitely no c scar.

 

[defstartrooper]

So the VP has clearly no scar whatsoever.
The TM original photo doesnt either.
also, the TD doesnt have a scar.
A+B+C
= No scar.

The TM original photo isn't fully stripped, the photo is one taken before added material was removed.
The TD isn't stripped at all.
Who knows what happened with the VP perhaps whoever made that helmet repaired that area i don't know but it's certainly not proof no mark is in either the UK mould or original helmet by itself.

This is my issue, GINO is making accusations against people who have never been shown to be dishonest or deceptive in any way by saying they fabricated the mark.
This isn't the first time he's made unsubstanciated accusations against people either for one thing, plus he's not above making claims about his own stuff in order to bolster their reputation lets say.
Given his history and inventive marketing in the past i have a hard time just swallowing what GINO says.
That doesn't automatically mean i don't believe him however, i'm quite happy to do so but i would like some proof of this mark being fabricated by these people if that is the case other than GINO's word which is questionable.

Everyone who knows me knows my view on recasters,thieves and dishonest dealers so i truly would like to know if this accusation is true.

 

[voice in the crowd]

No. It was always there in the VP. It may not be an original ANH paint line however. I have heard it said it could be there because the original VP's father casting was a painted casting. But that is not my own theory. I dont know the definite answer.

I agree it does not mean the line was on the screen helmet it just means it is something in the UK style helmets. It would be likely it was on the screen helmet though.

A wee bit on the background of the VP for clarity -

To my knowledge the VP did not derive from a painted master helmet it came from a production made cast that was once owned by the Elstree art department. To be clear when I say production made that does not mean it could not be a generation or two along the line from the screen mask it just means it was made by the people who were working on the production of ESB. Although the art department cast is likely to just be a straight copy of the screen mask. The VP owned by the UK propmaker who done the small run therefore is at best a copy of a copy of the screen mask the ones made in the run are obviously another generation down.

Where the production cast is now I cannot say for certain but have a reasonably good idea. I also believe the same people have the mould made in the mid nineties from the production cast. The two casts I know of that made it 'out the door' of Elstree mid nineties both have clean up. The mask we know as the VP has more clean up than the other helmet that escaped.

The VP only had details removed from it none added.

@ Anson nice to hear from you mate you have been quiet for ages, I know you have been doing all that Dad stuff

I will give you a ring soon for a catch up.

Cheers Chris

 

[VaderArmor]

Fabricating details just to say you have something superior to everyone else's
is just, well, _ _ _ _ _

Now the people who bought them know they were fabricated I bet they feel like this...

 

[Al May]

Why would the TM owners go through the trouble of manufacturing such a mark if they were not going to show it to the masses, ? this is the first time i have ever seen these pics on a any forum and to me it looks like some of them are a little hacked off that these have been shown to the masses,The others have just posted evidence when pressed, if they knew it was not an authentic mark why bother showing such close up pics of it? If i were these guys i would just drop the openess and go back undercover, I for one will take the pictures on board as a viable referenace,

On an o.t topic what a great day , Bin is gone, a great day for freedomthumbsupthumbsupthumbsupthumbsup

 

[Qui-Gonzalez]

When in the hell did we get to accusing TM owners of adding the c-scar? You guys need to stop that. Here are the facts, once again: The TM was stripped by vadermania who documented what he found. No c-scar on the cheek after stripping. We then see the finished piece after being the repair work was finished to the tubes and there is a c-scar. This is before ANY of the owners of the TM ever even received their pieces.

The grey area is was there resin over this huge chunk on the cheek or not. The only person's word we have to go by is Jesper as he was the one who did the repair work. Jesper is not here to answer those questions. There is the possibility that it was there, but I personally find it difficult to buy into the acetone not stripping that resin off of the cheek while it did so off of the eyebrow. Just my opinion and I could be wrong.

Let's not paint the TM owners as being duplicitious in any of this. Let's not paint Jesper in that same light either. If he did sculpt the scar into the mother TM then perhaps he did it to offer up a better piece.

 

[Al May]

When in the hell did we get to accusing TM owners of adding the c-scar? You guys need to stop that. Here are the facts, once again: The TM was stripped by vadermania who documented what he found. No c-scar on the cheek after stripping. We then see the finished piece after being the repair work was finished to the tubes and there is a c-scar. This is before ANY of the owners of the TM ever even received their pieces.

The grey area is was there resin over this huge chunk on the cheek or not. The only person's word we have to go by is Jesper as he was the one who did the repair work. Jesper is not here to answer those questions. There is the possibility that it was there, but I personally find it difficult to buy into the acetone not stripping that resin off of the cheek while it did so off of the eyebrow. Just my opinion and I could be wrong.

Let's not paint the TM owners as being duplicitious in any of this. Let's not paint Jesper in that same light either. If he did sculpt the scar into the mother TM then perhaps he did it to offer up a better piece.

Well said that man,although alot of people are getting mad in this thread its just what individuals believe what they have been shown or told ,I can see in a moment that every one who has posted pics in this thread will remove them, how often have you guys read a thead where the poster has pointed out a detail in a pic then later removed it,:angry then its lost and nobody learns anything, Unfortunatly the only chance of truely finding out what the cheek on the screen helmet looked like in ANH is to go back to 1976 and see what the cheek looked like over the whole filming process, now i dont think any of us no mater how much we boast will be able to do that, Even if we could find the helmet now it still would not appear the same way it did back then, this thread should be used as a show us what you know and we will take it onboard and make our own minds up, not that I am 100% correct following (ten posts of ranting) then look at this pic (another ten posts of ranting)

At the end off the day we all share the same interest ,people who do not see the appeal in Vader or props for that matter would laugh their buts off at us

i would hope with the exf coming out and the refreshing attitude of people that have other authentic casts showing ,real discustions can take place not the bashing and group forming of who's right or who's wrong,that has been the joke of others for so long

Peace Brothers

 

[defstartrooper]

When in the hell did we get to accusing TM owners of adding the c-scar? You guys need to stop that.

We got there from GINO stating that Jesper and or TM and the owners of the other casts deriving from the UK mould added details to their casts to add false authenticity in the eFX thread and this one.

People in the TM and SL camp were of the mind that the c-scar was a dimensional detail on the original helmet.
When they acquired castings that did not have dimensional c-scars, in an effort to make their castings appear more authentic, they added this detail in (or at least, the person doing the clean up and molding added it in).

 

[Zombie Killer]

For the record i do not accuse anyone of adding details to their TM's. Like Qui said, at the time Jasper may have thought it was there and added it to make a better piece. Not in a malicious way but in a quest for accuracy. The only one who knows that isn't talking and apparently even isn't in the hobby anymore. Which leads me to think, why are the secret photos not being shown when the guy TM owners made the secret deal with isn't in the hobby anymore and noone knows where he is. You guys are protecting someone you obviously don't know all that well. I keep in touch with my friends and my friends give a heads up when they move. We are still waiting for 1, ONE, UNO, picture showing the stripped facemask with the scar.

 

[Al May]

For the record i do not accuse anyone of adding details to their TM's. Like Qui said, at the time Jasper may have thought it was there and added it to make a better piece. Not in a malicious way but in a quest for accuracy. The only one who knows that isn't talking and apparently even isn't in the hobby anymore. Which leads me to think, why are the secret photos not being shown when the guy TM owners made the secret deal with isn't in the hobby anymore and noone knows where he is. You guys are protecting someone you obviously don't know all that well. I keep in touch with my friends and my friends give a heads up when they move. We are still waiting for 1, ONE, UNO, picture showing the stripped facemask with the scar.

Believe me i would love to see that pic of the facemask, but maybe not all the present TM owners got their casts when JRX was around, or they may have been happy to take his word for what they were receiving,They would not be the fist person to buy a replica on the makers said pedigree or the last for that matter, I dont know ,but like you said i would like to see a pic after Vadamania and then JRX had finished with it, but i dont know if one even exists.

 

[Qui-Gonzalez]

We got there from GINO stating that Jesper and or TM and the owners of the other casts deriving from the UK mould added details to their casts to add false authenticity in the eFX thread and this one.

Oh, so you believe it too?

 

[vaderdarth]

No but you do Qui and that's okay buddy.

 

[Qui-Gonzalez]

No but you do Qui and that's okay buddy.

I was asking Gary. What I believe, and I will be perfectly honest, is that there was no scar on the stripped TM version based on the evidence at hand provided by vadermania. Whether it was added or not I cannot say until we have some definitive proof from Jesper as he is the one who did the rebuild. If you read my previous statement, I do not discount the possibility that it was there, but the evidence at hand shows nothing on the stripped down facemask.

Thanks for trying to speak for me though, Dave.