Vader cheek mark (c-scar)

[ArtisanProps]

Well, it's all there for everyone to see now and the more they fight it the more their battle looks like a personal attack on Gino. It's a shame because the only reason they won't concede is because it would mean they would have to concede to him, which I don't understand and I guess I never will for that matter.

Information is power, but not in the sense they use it. They use it to have a superior status over everyone which really eerks the hell out of me. After all, outside of this hobby, knowone knows who they are or gives a rats A_ _ to know who they are..


Vadermania made it clear that the pics are not photoshopped. Period.. Is there
really anything else to say or debate?

 

[Trap Joe]

Well, it's all there for everyone to see now and the more they fight it the more their battle looks like a personal attack on Gino. It's a shame because the only reason they won't concede is because it would mean they would have to concede to him, which I don't understand and I guess I never will for that matter.

Information is power, but not in the sense they use it. They use it to have a superior status over everyone which really eerks the hell out of me. After all, outside of this hobby, knowone knows who they are or gives a rats A_ _ to know who they are..


Vadermania made it clear that the pics are not photoshopped. Period.. Is there
really anything else to say or debate?

I don´t know what kind of problem you have?
Besides the picture still looks photoshopped to me, we had cleared that the pic was made before the resin was removed. I´ve seen the mask without tusks and with the scar. Is it so difficult to believe me, although I´ve been involved in the whole progress and watched over it about three times a week? Jesper even asked me about the design and spot to make the TM initials. I know what I´m talking about.
But I guess I will stop and let you believe what you want. It´s a bit dissapointing, but I have no problem to acceps that we are a fantasy movie fan forum on which some members want to keep their own dreams and visions over pure facts

 

[Art Andrews]

You know, I'm curious. When you say "you" and "your", are you addressing me as an individual, or clumping me with everyone else?

I am referring to you specifically as well as those who are taking the same approach to this debate as you.

If someone presumes to have the authority to bully others, it's the obligation of the people bullied to challenge that authority.

It is interesting to see that you perceive Gino to be a bully but don't see what happened in the eFX thread in the same light.

And how many times have you yourself asked Gino to back his statements instead of his circular logic trademark, "If you don't believe me, just look at my statues. The fact that they have that look must mean I know something!)

On this we are in total agreement. I absolutely hate it when Gino (or anyone) takes this approach. It doesn't benefit the community and lends very little credence to one's argument. This applies to anyone.

So why, suddenly do I have to cough up private correspondence, Art?

No one is making you do anything. You were the one that brought up the fact that you had the proof and based on your above disdain for people who say things without providing proof, I don't know why you wouldn't post it up to shore up your argument. Not sure why you are suddenly playing the victim on this point.

you've allowed me to be called freak, fanatic

Please provide quotes.

Given this, you're doing more than take sides against "flip-flopping". You're taking sides with Gino.

The bias is clear. I'm done talking to you.

You are certainly welcome to twist this in whatever way makes you able to feel vindicated about the actions you are taking, but, unfortunately, it doesn't make you right.

 

[ArtisanProps]

I don´t know what kind of problem you have?
Besides the picture still looks photoshopped to me, we had cleared that the pic was made before the resin was removed. I´ve seen the mask without tusks and with the scar. Is it so difficult to believe me, although I´ve been involved in the whole progress and watched over it about three times a week? Jesper even asked me about the design and spot to make the TM initials. I know what I´m talking about.
But I guess I will stop and let you believe what you want. It´s a bit dissapointing, but I have no problem to acceps that we are a fantasy movie fan forum on which some members want to keep their own dreams and visions over pure facts

To reply to such a statement would be off topic because it's filled with
baiting and absolutely useless to the point of this conversation. I'm
afraid you words mean nothing to me now that Vadermania has stepped in
to confirm what we have been saying all this time.. The fact that you
THINK the photo was photoshopped is pointless and is absolutely factless..
You can THINK it's photoshopped all you want, the FACT is Vadermania said
it isn't..

 

[Art Andrews]

Besides the picture still looks photoshopped to me

Are you disagreeing with TM's statement that the photo is NOT photoshopped?

I´ve seen the mask without tusks and with the scar.

Do you have those photos? Is so, are you able to share them? If you don't have them, can you get them?

Is it so difficult to believe me, although I´ve been involved in the whole progress and watched over it about three times a week? Jesper even asked me about the design and spot to make the TM initials. I know what I´m talking about.

These comments sound EXACTLY like the kind that you have berated Gino for in the past which is asking people to just believe you/him because you/he say so. People don't (and shouldn't) believe Gino without substantiation, why should they believe you?

some members want to keep their own dreams and visions over pure facts

Where are the facts? If you have them, show them. If you don't have them, how are they facts? Based on your word alone? When has this site ever accepted someone at their word without proof?

 

[vaderdarth]

Seriously and without Sarcasm. I love both the screen accurate Vader and the Chronicles style Vader. Both are important to me. The screen accurate vader of course is complete with C scars, divots, yucky hand painted details, paint drips on the neck, etc etc. The Chronicles Vader has no apparent flaws in that it was a total repaint. But that repaint was so iconic in my youth as it literally embellished every other Star Wars product. Remember the yellow poster with Vader....the same image used for the cover of the Star Wars Story Book? The cardboard standee??? That was all Chronicles Vader.

You need a helmet from the UK mould for the yucky Vader and you need the Baker mould helmet for the Chronicles Vader. It's the same screen used helmet, but at different points in it's career. There is nothing wrong with wanting it all!

Only gino can answer any questions about the divot, simply because he was there. So I keep on asking, but I don't get answers. You other guys who beg for every crumb that gino might drop, you keep attempting to answer my question for him, but honestly none of you were there and saw that mould, so your answers mean little. You don't have to concern yourself with why I wish to know all about that divot, I already explained it right up there at the beginning of this very post. You only need to know that I want to know. If you can't help me clarify what I need to know, try to hold back answering. I'll consider it baiting from this point forward. I only want to hear from gino about whether it was still in the Baker mould or whether it wore out prior to eFX obtaining it. A photo would be better but not necessary. If it really was there but eFX and or gino decided on their own to remove it, end of story, I won't even ask again.

I don't require some smart alec comment or some nasty dismissal, that will just keep me pestering the hell out of gino for answers for as long as it takes. Just an honest open answer is enough to make me just go away from this whole divot conversation. gino, it's up to you buddy.

You were kind enough to answer all my other questions but seem so unecessarily evasive about this one tiny little point. I promise I will not speak negatively here or otherwise if you give an honest answer. It doesn't detract from the eFX so let's just put that aside right now. Nothing and I mean nothing can take away from what you accomplished on that eFX helmet. Vader fans will be crowing about that helmet for literally years to come. It's that nice.

Pretty please, there I've said it

Dave

 

[Juansith]

Cmon people, they are going to close this thread too.
For three or so pages we were really discovering interesting things here, please dont make this thread shut too.
If there are no more evidence to be shown, lets leave it at that.
I think we have enough to make our own mind.
You all know by now what are you Vader helmet options, what you would get with the EFX and the TM and the SL, in case theres a chance you get one of the last two.

Top three people, just remember that....top three.

 

[cboath]

If the original argument was that the pic was photoshopped and then TM comes to say it wasn't - you have to wonder if the small number of people privy to the original details knew about the removable black resin - why was it never mentioned at all until TM says the photo wasn't photoshopped? Seems like it could be relevant. You'd say (or at least you'd think) the photo was photoshopped, but to cover your bases note that it could be a legit photo but then after studying that helmet it was found that there was easily removable black resin and when that was remove, voial, the scar was there.

The answer doesn't matter to me, but as more of an outsider on the issue, that's the thing that pops to my mind.

Those pics also make it look more like an O scar as opposed to a C scar as well. Personally, i'd think if there such a distinct scar on the helmet at that, someone would have been able to see it on film as an O scar by now, too. But maybe that's just me.

Another question would be, if that photo was photoshopped, why is it impossible to see ANY evidence of it? Seriously, why would you go to all the trouble to edit out a decent size part of a photo to hide detail and make it so good you can't find any evidence at all it was photoshopped when the images were being sent to what? 10-20 people? Especially when you're telling people the image was photoshopped. I don't have a photoshop here to play around with, but i've seen really good edit jobs that you can't tell just by looking at it normal size, but when you zoom in to the pixel level it becomes clear it's been tampered with.

Like I said, just things that jump out to me.

I don't get the private correspondence thing either. No offense, but you've already said who said it and what was said (more or less). If there was any breach, it already occurred. Regardless, though, I don't think it'd accomplish anything. Just like God coming down and personally vouching for one side or the other here, a portion of the other side still wouldn't believe it. Email is easily tampered with so anything you posted would still be subject to question. So, in that regard, posting it wouldn't make any difference I don't think.

If anyone has a photo of the cheek from the UK mold, that'd likely settle it. Don't think anything has surfaced on that front, though. After 3000 or so posts, though, it's possible i missed it

 

[vaderdarth]

Top 5. Not all hands were played. But solid top 5.

 

[encased]

After hearing form both sides I see a hung jury and a mistrial until more of the photographic evidence can be accounted for. I'm very much interested in seeing if the other pics from the restoration process can be found.

And very disappointed that trap Joe's recommendation for 2 molds to be made wasn't gone along with. There was only 1 chance to do this and it was lost over what? A couple hundred bucks of silicone?

It's like home theater equipment. When you drop 10K on a system you don't hook it up with RCA jacks. $200 probably was a very small percentage of the price of the lid. Oh well. Hindsight and all that.

 

[Art Andrews]

Only [Gino] can pull a casting out of the Baker mould that many many other people have pulled from and not pull that screen accurate divot over Vader's left brow. All those other idiots ended up with that freaking inaccurate divot in their domes. You just have to take gino at his word on this one man. He's got divot removal skills, left to right C-scar orientation and painting skills, nunchuk skills, you know SKILLS!!!!

Curious as to why you are beating this dead horse when Gino plainly stated:

PS, just for you dave, the dome divot most definitely appears on a raw baker cast.

I am assuming (but don't know for a fact) the implication here is that it isn't on the final eFX production piece, but that it was in the mold. Like you, I wish Gino would post a pic, but what photos are posted is up to eFX, not Gino, so I guess it will be up to Bryan to decide if posting a photo of the divot will benefit eFX in any way or will only cause you to jump to yet another subject as the last few photos have done.

 

[Trap Joe]

Are you disagreeing with TM's statement that the photo is NOT photoshopped?




Do you have those photos? Is so, are you able to share them? If you don't have them, can you get them?



These comments sound EXACTLY like the kind that you have berated Gino for in the past which is asking people to just believe you/him because you/he say so. People don't (and shouldn't) believe Gino without substantiation, why should they believe you?




Where are the facts? If you have them, show them. If you don't have them, how are they facts? Based on your word alone? When has this site ever accepted someone at their word without proof?

I said To me it still looks... No I´m not doubting Vadermania. But read the thread, the continuing thread in the Den and the statement that JRX may have not wanted to let this escape unphotoshopped into Gino´s hands, which really sound like Jesper, you will get a picture.
Please read my posts more careful. I said: I regret I didn´t take pictures of that state.
I´m not Gino who says you must believe me. So believe what you want.
Art, I have pictures of the mask in it´s original state with the paint and bondo on, only. I´m sorry.
I would help you if I had the pictures you want.

Artisianprops: you can believe what you want as well.

calm down, peace

 

[Juansith]

Top 5. Not all hands were played. But solid top 5.

Now you are saying this because the missing two helmet owners are your friends .

 

[vaderdarth]

I did theorize early in the eFX threads that I felt they might do that.....use one single mould of the cleanest helmet to make both versions. I was afraid that might happen, its unfortunate for a handful of Legend owners, but it's still a reasonable thing considering mass production. I don't think anyone truly criticizes the decision when you take production profits into account. You do realize that there are a select few of Legend buyers that would actually prefer a pristine helmet even though the blemishes are all paint ops. Hey to each his own.

 

[encased]

"All those memories will be lost in time, like tears in the rain".

 

[ArtisanProps]

I said To me it still looks... No I´m not doubting Vadermania. But read the thread, the continuing thread in the Den and the statement that JRX may have not wanted to let this escape unphotoshopped into Gino´s hands, which really sound like Jesper, you will get a picture.
And read my posts better. i said I regret I didn´t take pictures of that state. But believe what you want.
I´m not Gino who says you must believe me.

Artisianprops: you can believe what you want as well.

calm down, guys, peace

Jorge, the pictures in question were taken by Vadermania after the
stripping process.. What does Jesper have to do with this? If Vadermania
says that the photo's are NOT photoshopped then YES I am going to believe
him and NOT you.. It's not as simple as "believe what you want to believe"
I'm not basing anything on personal feelings like you, I'm basing them on FACT.

I have no issue with you so please relax your stance. This is about fact not
personal feelings which is where I think your confusing things..

The TM is a nice helmet, but I think it's been proven that we can't use it
in any way to prove weather or not the C-scar existed.. I say we move on
and leave the TM out of this discussion from this point foward..

 

[vaderdarth]

Only one of them is a friend Juan.

Thank you Art, I totally missed that entire post apparently. Thank you kindly for reposting for my benefit. I overlooked it and I apologize. I'm only human. Your comment about me jumping topics is very rude and baiting one Art. I had a specific list of questions I wanted answered and I went from one to the next as each was answered or ignored. You would have done the same thing if you cared enough to inquire. Only gino was involved in this project, therefore he's the only expert available to us peasants. Treating me like it's some crime to have more than one question about the eFX helmet (the only licensed ANH Vader helmet in existence) is not cool Art, not cool.

 

[Trap Joe]

To me personally it counts even more to have a size compairisson between TM and EFX ANH helmet.
Because I made the TM casting with very expensive materials that allowed me to receive results with nearly no shrinkage. The TM casts are 1 % smaller, which is not noticable, and my personal one - as 4 others - have the very correct weight of the TM original. If the EFX helmet has archieved this goal as well, I have to have one.

Artisian. I can understand your side. I´m in your boat to find out the truth. I don´t like I should believe without prove. If neccesary I can live with it, if it is played fair. Having my own model shop company for nearly 12 years now and work in the movie-entertainmelnt industry since 1995, I know a lot about the many ways how details envolve in clay, silicone, fiberglass, resin, vacuum pull,etc.. Unfortunately, I can´t help with pictures here. I hope you understand me now.

 

[vaderdarth]

Joe I agree and I think that so does everyone else in these discussions. I do think you'll see a slight difference as eFX would almost definitely have had to create multiple and possibly 3rd gen moulds of the helmets. In the best situation it could result in 1% shrinkage each generation. I'm not huge on the size issue like some guys are. That's another personal preference with these helmets.

To me personally it counts even more to have a size comparison between TM and EFX ANH helmet.
Because I made the TM casting with very expensive materials that allowed me to receive results with nearly no shrinkage. The TM casts are 1 % smaller which is not noticable, and my personal one - as 4 others - have the very correct weight of the TM original. If the EFX helmet has archieved this goal as well, I have to have one.

 

[ArtisanProps]

I'm not huge on the size issue like some guys are..

I think some women would disagree with you on this subject :lol