Then it sounds like on that we are 103% in agreement!
The Ultimate Luke ANH Graflex Research & Discussion Thread
- Thread starter IronDestinyProps
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It’s nice to see how Star Wars fans are giving back to the photography community with our replica working Graflex handles making it into prop departments to be used in major motion pictures like the upcoming ‘The Boys in the Boat’ based on a true story.
I caught up on this thread finally and I'm still confused. We're never all going to see the same thing are we? Considering that The Graflex was made, partially, if not fully, by hand-assembling manufactured parts, and those parts were made in more than one location, AND those parts were changed/updated/revised over time and materials in hand were not always the same OVER A PERIOD OF 30+ years on top of the fact that the people who bought and used them may make their own modifications and swap parts about, AND we're often looking at low res images of photos from 40+ years ago from a production that while well-documented in some ways, still has mystery to it... we may have to accept that the proper hero we see is a completely unique combination of custom work effected by a long history, chance, the rigors of production and we will never find a perfect match or know exactly what was done to it when or why.
Right?
Right?
To some degree, yes, but the photo evidence is strong enough to say with certainty the original ANH Graflex was a Folmer. The glass eye and ears and shiny clamp lever are a dead giveaway. There is also clear photo evidence of the original Graflex having a larger than Inc style lever rivet head. Whether it was a rivet from a different variant Graflex or a custom job is still unclear but it was definitely larger than the average Inc lever rivet.
1000%, we will never all agree
There are a lot of assumptions that we make—the main one being “The Folmer Graflex Orthodoxy”…the primary tenet of this faith is that every Graflex seen in the OT was 100% a Folmer top, bottom, clamp, glass eye, socket pins, etc. which somewhat flies in the face of the flashes I have purchased in the wild (which are often a mishmash of different bottoms, tops, glass eyes, etc., if they came from a prior photographer’s bag of equipment).
We also know that with multiple handles being used by the production, it is highly unlikely that they sought out ONLY 100% pure Folmer flashes. I suppose that they could have, but I’m not quite sure why they would have. We have seen the appearance of the regular and thin knurled red button on different hilts so we know that they harvested different parts from at least two types of Graflex flashes, for certain.
Beyond a hero ANH hilt that we have pretty decent reference for, and which does appear to be a Folmer, we really don’t know about the others.
But, the benefit of “The Folmer Graflex Orthodoxy” is that one can purchase very nice vintage Graflex Inc. flashes for 1/3 of the cost of a Folmer, in the open market; so there are definite benefits to these assumptions
We also know that with multiple handles being used by the production, it is highly unlikely that they sought out ONLY 100% pure Folmer flashes. I suppose that they could have, but I’m not quite sure why they would have. We have seen the appearance of the regular and thin knurled red button on different hilts so we know that they harvested different parts from at least two types of Graflex flashes, for certain.
Beyond a hero ANH hilt that we have pretty decent reference for, and which does appear to be a Folmer, we really don’t know about the others.
But, the benefit of “The Folmer Graflex Orthodoxy” is that one can purchase very nice vintage Graflex Inc. flashes for 1/3 of the cost of a Folmer, in the open market; so there are definite benefits to these assumptions
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I agree, but I am still a little vexed by that bear tab rivet finish-- but again, different parts made by different venders brought into assembly lines in different locations at different times makes for outlier flashes even BEFORE they get into the hands of photography who may swap parts before tossing them in box to sit for another decade or so before they make it to production.
We talk about the flashes we've all found in the wild, but think of how many ended up just being trashed in landfills, crushed in junkyards, or recycled for the war effort. For all the flashes we've found an seen, there a myriad lost to time.
Why vexed? It was simply machined and then chrome plated. All of the reference photos of the original ANH prop show this. It seems to be a rather rare find on a Folmer upper tube (practically guaranteed on an Inc) but they are possible to find, extremely rare though.
It was simply machined and then chrome plated. All of the reference photos of the original ANH prop show this. It seems to be a rather rare find on a Folmer upper tube (practically guaranteed on an Inc) but they are possible to find, extremely rare though.
Why vexed?
I do have to call out, I love your YouTube channel and your work—excellent on both counts.
There are a lot of assumptions that we make—the main one being “The Folmer Graflex Orthodoxy”…the primary tenet of this faith is that every Graflex seen in the OT was 100% a Folmer top, bottom, clamp, glass eye, socket pins, etc. which somewhat flies in the face of the flashes I have purchased in the wild (which are often a mishmash of different bottoms, tops, glass eyes, etc., if they came from a prior photographer’s bag of equipment).
We also know that with multiple handles being used by the production, it is highly unlikely that they sought out ONLY 100% pure Folmer flashes. I suppose that they could have, but I’m not quite sure why they would have. We have seen the appearance of the regular and thin knurled red button on different hilts so we know that they harvested different parts from at least two types of Graflex flashes, for certain.
Beyond a hero ANH hilt that we have pretty decent reference for, and which does appear to be a Folmer, we really don’t know about the others.
But, the benefit of “The Folmer Graflex Orthodoxy” is that one can purchase very nice vintage Graflex Inc. flashes for 1/3 of the cost of a Folmer, in the open market; so there are definite benefits to these assumptions
I still think that they decided the full-knurl knob was more aesthetically pleasing, and so added it to the hero(es), while relegating the thin-knurl knob to the FX/stunt(s).
I do have to call out, I love your YouTube channel and your work—excellent on both counts.
Ditto. Top-notch.
Thank you gents!
You said it-- I'm vexed by the rarity and that we haven't spotted one elsewhere. But I am MORE in the camp, as I said in my first post 20+ pages back, knowing production the way I do, I find it more likely to be a rare find than a case of the rivet being swapped. And if that folmer upper was missing a rivet and beer tab, it's more likely they'd just leave as they did in ESB than stick a INC rivet in.Why vexed?
For sure true! However, they have been spotted in the wild by myself with at least two separate customer commissions about a year ago and Diego has as well so machined Folmer beer tabs while super rare are out there.
The same may be true for the larger than average lever rivet being a rare variant but I doubt it since we haven't found one in the wild yet. The private higher res reference photo I have of the clamp clearly shows an obviously larger rivet head than an Inc.
That's great to know! Like I said early on, it's amazing the more outlier variations end up being used by production-- just like the MPP.
From my research I’ve been informed that there were around 50 units made specifically for the RAF. So that variant, which we now now to the same as the hero is indeed extremely rare.
It’s the RAF Stores Reference number of the camera kit (114A) with the flash identifier on the end (63).
They serialized everything, not just cameras. This just happened to be the cameras number. MPPs had different numbers. 14A/4678, I think. Here is the MPP part listing for the case:
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