The Ultimate Luke ANH Graflex Research & Discussion Thread

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v312

Active Member
I would agree, it seems like there is a slight bit of space between those rivets, but it may also be a trick of the light there. The shadows between the rivets may be creating an optical allusion to a degree. Will be interested to see if roygilsing has managed to compare his 3D model with this detail.
I saw that Roy actually have this in his earlier post and for me it matches close enough on the outside to assume it is just shadows making it look like a bigger gap. There's this (5) label unfortunately exactly on that spot
1614057943744.png
 

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v312

Active Member
Which I find interesting. I have actually drilled these holes in a replica lower, and I drilled into the bottom plate because it was too close to it! :unsure:
Yeah, looks like the top rivet goes in like that. Either a really sloppy riveting or that was the only way to solve a problem that we cannot identify yet .
1614058416880.png
 

roygilsing

Master Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
Yes, I agree that that rivet is popped in a slight angle. Probably to fixate that bracket inside ;)

Here the overlay:
Screenshot_13.jpg


Screenshot_14.jpg


Like I said, I still believe strongly in the L-bracket reinforcement. The fact that they are placed exactly on both side of one grip means that the grip was planned there when they put the rivets. Also, they could have just removed that single grip and glued it back in place after the rivet were popped.
Why would you ever close a tiny hole with a huge rivet? I truly can't understand the logic of that. Rivets are meant to hold something. Something in that area can only mean reinforcement of the D-ring, afraid that it might ruin the prop while running around in Tunisia. It makes perfect sense to me.

Roy
 

Obi1Kenobi

New Member
Yes, I agree that that rivet is popped in a slight angle. Probably to fixate that bracket inside ;)

Here the overlay:
View attachment 1429230

View attachment 1429231

Like I said, I still believe strongly in the L-bracket reinforcement. The fact that they are placed exactly on both side of one grip means that the grip was planned there when they put the rivets. Also, they could have just removed that single grip and glued it back in place after the rivet were popped.
Why would you ever close a tiny hole with a huge rivet? I truly can't understand the logic of that. Rivets are meant to hold something. Something in that area can only mean reinforcement of the D-ring, afraid that it might ruin the prop while running around in Tunisia. It makes perfect sense to me.

Roy

And maybe the large rivet on the top right here was the first one to get installed. When they realized the hole was a little too close to the inside of the endcap and/or the bracket inside, and that the large rivet head was also protruding beyond the end of the saber, they switched to smaller rivets on the left. (Just a theory about why there are two different rivet sizes.)

And maybe each of the two bottom rivets matches each of the two top rivets in size because if anyone is going to notice a size mismatch, it will be from any two rivets that are right next to each other. (Just a theory about why the pairs of two different sizes.)
 

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AstroZopyros

Active Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
And maybe the large rivet on the top right here was the first one to get installed. When they realized the hole was a little too close to the inside of the endcap and/or the bracket inside, and that the large rivet head was also protruding beyond the end of the saber, they switched to smaller rivets on the left. (Just a theory about why there are two different rivet sizes.)

And maybe each of the two bottom rivets matches each of the two top rivets in size because if anyone is going to notice a size mismatch, it will be from any two rivets that are right next to each other. (Just a theory about why the pairs of two different sizes.)
Now there's an interesting Idea!
Yes, I agree that that rivet is popped in a slight angle. Probably to fixate that bracket inside ;)

Here the overlay:
View attachment 1429230

View attachment 1429231

Like I said, I still believe strongly in the L-bracket reinforcement. The fact that they are placed exactly on both side of one grip means that the grip was planned there when they put the rivets. Also, they could have just removed that single grip and glued it back in place after the rivet were popped.
Why would you ever close a tiny hole with a huge rivet? I truly can't understand the logic of that. Rivets are meant to hold something. Something in that area can only mean reinforcement of the D-ring, afraid that it might ruin the prop while running around in Tunisia. It makes perfect sense to me.

Roy
Thanks for the great scaling, modeling and art as always Roy! Definitely makes things easier to see and understand!
 

Sym-Cha

Master Member
Now here's an observation ... I took this picture of a 2 Cell as an example :

Battery Spring.jpg


Every 3 Cell bottom should have the same kind of battery spring inside ... it also holds the backplate secure between itself and the outer curved lip. This makes me wonder why the propmakers thought it necessary to remove it, add an L-shaped bracket and drill several holes to secure it with rivets?

And is everyone now removing their battery springs in order to recreate a screen-accurate lightsaber prop with rivets?

Chaïm
 

AstroZopyros

Active Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
Now here's an observation ... I took this picture of a 2 Cell as an example :

View attachment 1429283

Every 3 Cell bottom should have the same kind of battery spring inside ... it also holds the backplate secure between itself and the outer curved lip. This makes me wonder why the propmakers thought it necessary to remove it, add an L-shaped bracket and drill several holes to secure it with rivets?

And is everyone now removing their battery springs in order to recreate a screen-accurate lightsaber prop with rivets?

Chaïm
That is actually a great point Chaïm, I was wondering this as well? I mean, perhaps the spring was already missing? I still am having trouble wondering what the point of the bracket would be, when they hung obi wans nearly 2 lb. hilt by one plastic cube drilled out...Though, this still seems the most plausible explanation, especially since there are so many rivets in one area.
 

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ALLEY

Master Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
Now here's an observation ... I took this picture of a 2 Cell as an example :

View attachment 1429283

Every 3 Cell bottom should have the same kind of battery spring inside ... it also holds the backplate secure between itself and the outer curved lip. This makes me wonder why the propmakers thought it necessary to remove it, add an L-shaped bracket and drill several holes to secure it with rivets?

And is everyone now removing their battery springs in order to recreate a screen-accurate lightsaber prop with rivets?

Chaïm
That is actually a great point Chaïm, I was wondering this as well? I mean, perhaps the spring was already missing? I still am having trouble wondering what the point of the bracket would be, when they hung obi wans nearly 2 lb. hilt by one plastic cube drilled out...Though, this still seems the most plausible explanation, especially since there are so many rivets in one area.

Hmmmmm....I have another possibility to consider.

What if their first attempt to pop the rivets for the D-ring resulted in a “blow out” and a hole that was too big for a new rivet to be inserted into and held securely in place?

When this happens, a common remedy is to insert a new piece of metal, under the previously drilled rivet hole, to pop the rivet into.

Popping a couple of rivets into the side of the flash, in order to hold the piece of metal, or bracket, in place so that it could be drilled and have the d-ring “re-popped” securely into place would make sense.

So these rivets may not represent an intended construction design, but more of a remedy for a construction error.
 
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Valor

Sr Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
I'm imagining a world where some repair I've done – where I've quickly jammed a bunch of mis-matched screws to hold something together – is now 40 years later being examined under a microscope by a bunch of people trying to understand the method to my complex assembly technique :)
 

Sym-Cha

Master Member
AstroZopyros indeed a 2 pound Obi-Wan lightsaber vs a lightweight 3 Cell and not much time, so many trooper blasters had to be build o_O Thanks scottjua ... that would be a logical explanation to add something to secure the backplate if they thought it necessary or as a repair during filming like Valor mentioned. ALLEY now why not grab another 3 Cell bottom from Roger's box instead?

Chaïm
 

BENnotKENOBI

New Member
Hmmmmm....I have another possibility to consider.

What if their first attempt to pop the rivets for the D-ring resulted in a “blow out” and a hole that was too big for a new rivet to be inserted into and held securely in place?

When this happens, a common remedy is to insert a new piece of metal, under the previously drilled rivet hole, to pop the rivet into.

Popping a couple of rivets into the side of the flash, in order to hold the piece of metal, or bracket, in place so that it could be drilled and have the d-ring “re-popped” securely into place would make sense.

So these rivets may not represent an intended construction design, but more of a remedy for a construction error.
Oh, I like this! Or they tried to drill for screws and didn't like that. Especially if they were limited in how many bottoms they had on hand.
 

ALLEY

Master Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
AstroZopyros indeed a 2 pound Obi-Wan lightsaber vs a lightweight 3 Cell and not much time, so many trooper blasters had to be build o_O Thanks scottjua ... that would be a logical explanation to add something to secure the backplate if they thought it necessary or as a repair during filming like Valor mentioned. ALLEY now why not grab another 3 Cell bottom from Roger's box instead?

Chaïm

Why not simply grab another 3 cell bottom vs. inserting a bracket and popping a few rivets to recover a botched D-ring attachment attempt?

Because, as Roger has said, he absolutely knew that this was “Excalibur for a new generation” and a venerated object to behold. To separate the sacred pieces of the hilt would have been sacrilege.

In all likelihood, expediency was the issue. If this hilt was otherwise fully assembled, it may have been easier to just drill 4 holes between the grips and pop a bracket in place for the d-ring than to cut and slap grips on another bottom and proceed from there.

Also....we can’t assume that the famous “dusty box of flashes” had multiple extra flash bottoms available.
 
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roygilsing

Master Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
Hmmmmm....I have another possibility to consider.

What if their first attempt to pop the rivets for the D-ring resulted in a “blow out” and a hole that was too big for a new rivet to be inserted into and held securely in place?

When this happens, a common remedy is to insert a new piece of metal, under the previously drilled rivet hole, to pop the rivet into.

Popping a couple of rivets into the side of the flash, in order to hold the piece of metal, or bracket, in place so that it could be drilled and have the d-ring “re-popped” securely into place would make sense.

So these rivets may not represent an intended construction design, but more of a remedy for a construction error.
Yes, interesting theory. Maybe it was the large hole from a Robertson screw that came off!! :lol: :lol: :lol:
 

AstroZopyros

Active Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
Ultimately, I think it's very interesting to imagine all these possibilities. However, unless we find the hero one day, or photos of the internals, we'll likely never know a definitive answer. I think Roy and Nate are hitting the nail on the head here... as getting these grips and rivets in the right positions, angles, and sizes are most important for accurately recreating the hero prop to the level of accuracy we all want!
 

Gregatron

Sr Member
Ultimately, I think it's very interesting to imagine all these possibilities. However, unless we find the hero one day, or photos of the internals, we'll likely never know a definitive answer. I think Roy and Nate are hitting the nail on the head here... as getting these grips and rivets in the right positions, angles, and sizes are most important for accurately recreating the hero prop to the level of accuracy we all want!


Hey, whoa, wait a second--let's not bring nails into this. We're already having enough hassle over rivets and screws.
 

Halliwax

Legendary Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
Can someone with a double Rivet d ring try something for me?

I’m curious with the d ring installed and the spring still in place if the 3 D batteries still fit
 

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