The Ultimate Luke ANH Graflex Research & Discussion Thread

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ALLEY

Master Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
What if ... the rivets were in the flash handle before it become a lightsaber.for

I doubt it as these rivets could impede the necessary movement of the batteries within the flash, depending on how much of the shaft of the rivets sticks out into the interior of the flash tube.

I’m trying to think of a practical reason why I would shoot rivets into the side of a flashlight, for example....I can’t come up with any.

Since the rivets do not attach anything to the outside of the flash, what practical use would they have other than to attach “something” to the inside of the flash (and likely impeded its intended function as a flash).

Also, if these rivets were there from the start, why not drill them out and simply cover the remaining holes with grip material?
 
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IronDestinyProps

Active Member
So these rivets may not represent an intended construction design, but more of a remedy for a construction error.
Very interesting observation, and seems quite plausible. Now the hilt needs to be located at the LFL archives by someone with access and opened up to verify.
 

dcarty

Sr Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
Can someone with a double Rivet d ring try something for me?

I’m curious with the d ring installed and the spring still in place if the 3 D batteries still fit

I can confirm that they do. As coincidence would have it I've been working on updating my Hero Graflex and this thread started. The Folmer Graflex I'm using for my hero build was also filled with vintage batteries when I received it many years ago and I like the heft that they give to it (it plays into the notion that the hilt was supposed to be heavy and difficult to control). I am using a Graflex Shop bottom piece as I'm NOT going to drill into another vintage part. Yet.

The spring was loose and wouldn't stay in place so I installed the rivets without it so the spring sits on top of the rivets. I attempted to spread out the end of the spring so that I could coil it underneath the rivets but couldn't get it to work and it wasn't important enough to me to bother with it any further.

Dave
 

Valor

Sr Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
I doubt it as these rivets could impede the necessary movement of the batteries within the flash, depending on how much of the shaft of the rivets sticks out into the interior of the flash tube.

I’m trying to think of a practical reason why I would shoot rivets into the side of a flashlight, for example....I can’t come up with any.

Since the rivets do not attach anything to the outside of the flash, what practical use would they have other than to attach “something” to the inside of the flash (and likely impeded its intended function as a flash).

Also, if these rivets were there from the start, why not drill them out and simply cover the remaining holes with grip material?
I know, I was just trying to be an anarchist. I'll see myself out now.
 

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roygilsing

Master Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
I doubt it as these rivets could impede the necessary movement of the batteries within the flash, depending on how much of the shaft of the rivets sticks out into the interior of the flash tube.

I’m trying to think of a practical reason why I would shoot rivets into the side of a flashlight, for example....I can’t come up with any.

Since the rivets do not attach anything to the outside of the flash, what practical use would they have other than to attach “something” to the inside of the flash (and likely impeded its intended function as a flash).

Also, if these rivets were there from the start, why not drill them out and simply cover the remaining holes with grip material?
Also, I can hardly imagine it's a coincidence that they would be conveniently placed in such positions that a T-track would fit exactly in between.
 
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Halliwax

Legendary Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
I can confirm that they do. As coincidence would have it I've been working on updating my Hero Graflex and this thread started. The Folmer Graflex I'm using for my hero build was also filled with vintage batteries when I received it many years ago and I like the heft that they give to it (it plays into the notion that the hilt was supposed to be heavy and difficult to control). I am using a Graflex Shop bottom piece as I'm NOT going to drill into another vintage part. Yet.

The spring was loose and wouldn't stay in place so I installed the rivets without it so the spring sits on top of the rivets. I attempted to spread out the end of the spring so that I could coil it underneath the rivets but couldn't get it to work and it wasn't important enough to me to bother with it any further.

Dave

Thank you!
 

sbeall

Active Member
If somebody drilled his replica and installed the rivets - please share your experience
I considered adding an aluminum angle iron inside mine. I happened to have some 3/4” long sections of 3/4 L profile just hanging around, and I thought it would be perfect. The problem I ran into was that L profile is straight, and the wall of the tube isn’t. There was simply no contact surface to sink a rivet into. So I would have had to modify the L profile to get better contact. Then there was positioning the bracket in the right place: how do I hold it and drill it and then rivet it? Poster tack on the end of a stick, and glue to the inside of the tube was the best I could come up with, and hope for the best when you drill. In the end these problems were not worth solving for me. Any prop shop could have done the job in under an hour, I’m sure. Besides, I had already decided on an idealized (possibly FX) saber. Maybe I’ll build a screen accurate one, next time.
 

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v312

Active Member
I considered adding an aluminum angle iron inside mine. I happened to have some 3/4” long sections of 3/4 L profile just hanging around, and I thought it would be perfect. The problem I ran into was that L profile is straight, and the wall of the tube isn’t. There was simply no contact surface to sink a rivet into. So I would have had to modify the L profile to get better contact. Then there was positioning the bracket in the right place: how do I hold it and drill it and then rivet it? Poster tack on the end of a stick, and glue to the inside of the tube was the best I could come up with, and hope for the best when you drill. In the end these problems were not worth solving for me. Any prop shop could have done the job in under an hour, I’m sure. Besides, I had already decided on an idealized (possibly FX) saber. Maybe I’ll build a screen accurate one, next time.
Thanks for sharing this. It basically confirms my concerns. Although the L-bracket seems the most obvious reason for the side rivets - there's not much space to fit like what we imagined.
I believe in general that If you run into too many obstacles trying to recreate something that is supposed to be a quick and dirty fix or "fix" a theory with too many "if"s and "but"s - then probably you are on the wrong track from the start.
 

ALLEY

Master Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
I speculate that rather than a “L-bracket” they would have inserted something more along the shape of a metal cap with a slightly smaller diameter than the interior of the flash that would hug the interior snugly and provide the surface to sink the d-ring into....similar to a paint cap?

A plastic cup just to illustrate what I’m describing:

AB238696-1B6D-4658-B649-FDCE908C88AD.jpeg
 

v312

Active Member
I think that makes much more sense! First thing I thought when I saw your post is of these old film canisters:
1614233676773.png

I'm not sure at all if they are the right size, but it is not hard to imagine that something similar exists that will fit just fine.
 

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Halliwax

Legendary Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
I speculate that rather than a “L-bracket” they would have inserted something more along the shape of a metal cap with a slightly smaller diameter than the interior of the flash that would hug the interior snugly and provide the surface to sink the d-ring into....similar to a paint cap?

A plastic cup just to illustrate what I’m describing:

View attachment 1429963

Bingo! ;)
 

v312

Active Member
Couldn't it be 2 narrower L-brackets? One for each pair of side rivets connected to the corresponding D-ring bracket rivet. At least that's how I initially imagined it when the discussion first came up.
Sure, it could be and they will fit closer to the wall of the tube. Might make it more problematic to position and secure them in place so you know where to drill. At least I feel Alley's idea will be easier to do without too much "engineering".

I still don't see a need to reinforce the plate unless it actually popped out when for example they tried to drill the d-ring clip holes and pressed too hard or something. You know, on a tight schedule and low budget "if ain't broke -don't fix it" should be like the golden rule.

And even if I decided that the 1mm brass plate needs reinforcing I will probably not think that a tiny 0.1-0.5mm aluminum (or even steel) l-bracket or cap will improve it drastically. But, if it did break on set or while working on it - and I was the one tasked to fix it "for yesterday" you know, the tiny cap or bracket will do just fine :)
 

uglyguitarguy

New Member
Respectfully, I say the L brackets, and now the inner "cup" theory still don't hold water for me (no pun intended). It would be a remarkable pain to try to put L brackets in the bottom, plus we've already identified that the bottom rivet(s) practically touch the bottom of the flash handle, so there's no way that's going through what would essentially be the bend of the L bracket, let alone doing that twice. As far as the "cup" concept, why would it only be riveted on only one side and not all the way around? Rivets between the grips all the way around would have actually lent itself to a pretty cool and consistent look, so thinking from a "prop-maker's perspective" that concept feels pretty loose.

To me, I still think it's far simpler and obvious. We're looking at prior attempt to attach the D ring (and I understand that concept still has it's flaws, like why different-sized rivets were used). Obviously without the original prop it's just Scroedinger's lightsaber, being both equally possible that we are all right and all wrong at the same time. I also don't meant to poo-poo opinions that people may be passionate about, so by all means, take my own opinion with a grain of salt.

I know you guys have probably been feeling this a lot longer than I have, but holy hell it's an absolute atrocity that this prop got lost somewhere in history, and that there's no way to reference it.
 

Gregatron

Sr Member
Assuming that the side rivets were indeed remnants of an attempt to install a d-ring bracket, then why FOUR rivets? Does that mean two separate, failed attempts? One attempt, but with an excessive amount of rivets?

Also, since the Elstree saber had ANH hero traits, no side rivets, and indications of an attempt to install an FX blade holder (or something) on the upper, that makes me think the Elstree was a failed attempt at an FX made after the hero design (with the d-ring mounted on the endcap) had been finalized.
 

BENnotKENOBI

New Member
Assuming that the side rivets were indeed remnants of an attempt to install a d-ring bracket, then why FOUR rivets? Does that mean two separate, failed attempts? One attempt, but with an excessive amount of rivets?

Also, since the Elstree saber had ANH hero traits, no side rivets, and indications of an attempt to install an FX blade holder (or something) on the upper, that makes me think the Elstree was a failed attempt at an FX made after the hero design (with the d-ring mounted on the endcap) had been finalized.
In terms of four rivets, it's no outside the realm of possibility that the holes might have been to big for the smaller rivets. And they wanted to use smaller rivets to fit between the grips.

So, I'm thinking, either the put two, and realized that the need an extra for each hole. Or, they thought ahead and planned to use two to begin with.
 

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