The OT stunt lightsaber blades research thread

[Mouse Vader]

Hi, (new guy to RPF alert -) I've hopped over here from thd9791's ESB blade core thread (ESB Bladed Stunt Graflex Lightsaber "The Core!" ) as I think I may be annoying him with my ANH questions. I'm currently looking to build a motorised ANH graflex stunt. I have a couple of Q's for halliwax & Kurtyboy. What RPM are your running motors at? And Q for anyone, is there a thread here from anyone who's made square / trianglualar tapered wooden blades ? cheers.

 

[Halliwax]

Hi, (new guy to RPF alert -) I've hopped over here from thd9791's ESB blade core thread (ESB Bladed Stunt Graflex Lightsaber "The Core!" ) as I think I may be annoying him with my ANH questions. I'm currently looking to build a motorised ANH graflex stunt. I have a couple of Q's for halliwax & Kurtyboy. What RPM are your running motors at? And Q for anyone, is there a thread here from anyone who's made square / trianglualar tapered wooden blades ? cheers.

It’s difficult to say what rpm... there’s a lot more too it then that. I got mine dialed in, and once it’s completed I’ll explain everything

But I don’t want to be giving anyone parts list during this experiment phase because I’m changing so many things it’s just a waste of your money

Once it’s done I’ll share everything

 

[kurtyboy]

I've no clue about the RPMs either but you don't want it too fast. I'm using a 550 21T motor. Too high a voltage makes it too fast which spoils the flicker effect, but too low and it won't spin efficiently and the blade will stop spinning when swung too hard. You want low voltage but high current. I'm sure the screen uses props used 6V.

I tried two pulse width modulators hoping it would retain torque while slowing the RPMs, but I got absolutely nothing from them!

At the moment I think I just need a new square blade as mine is warped which is affecting the smoothness, but I'm reasonably happy other than that. I haven't ruled out trying a motor with a higher turn rating though as I only just found out that the higher the turns, the more torque and slower speed.

I'm playing with square spinning wood vs. graphite golf shafts vs. ski poles and I'm going to rotoscope the red and blue glow and post some video.

And much fun is being had, I can tell you!

Top to bottom: Square wooden dowel 15mm to 10mm taper (21mm to 14mm when spun), ski pole 18mm at widest, graphite golf club 15mm at widest.

For Luke or Vader ANH this 1 wood club is too short, but I see there are XXL clubs up to +3" available, although they're expensive and I couldn't find a second hand one for sale.

 

[Mouse Vader]

Thanks both. I'm not really looking for a parts list, just wanting to see how what you've been doing has turned out, if good then perhaps I'd follow if not then it'd be my turn to try something else. Looking forward to seeing your finished article halliwax. Tubing for mine arrived this morning.

I've checked on Kurtyboy's 550 & gives 2300 - 2400 rpm /volt (kv) so I assume it's a brushless & you've a gear box & or speed controler) ? The motor I have on order (fleabay chinese) is 6v dc geared to 900 rpm. I had thought about using a brushless but I thought brushed dc would simpler & more like original prop. I also wonder if the problems you're experiencing may also be true to the original & part of the reason they were ditched.

I'm interested in rpm because of how this will interact with the camera frame rate to give flicker. Looking at youtube raw footage clips I had estimated about 1 turn every other frame. Cine camera's being about 24 FPS gives rpm of original about 720. MP4 video on my camera is 29.97 fps (AVI is 30) which is why I've chosen a 900rpm motor. I've since realise this might not be a good idea as these rpms will be in sinc with the camera so would be more like strobing not flicker.

I'm very pleased to see someone has done a sq. sec. blade. I love how your blades look with a flash (?). I'm not at all convinced sq. or triangle were used on screen, as all the pictures & clips I've seen look def. round. I'm also thinking 2 spinning, wooden, faceted blades making contact would a) chew eachother to bits & b) make a buzzing noise & not a clack. Have you ever hit anything with your square one? if so what noise did it make?

 

[thd9791]

Not annoying me at all!

kurtyboy , your reflective material, is it a fabric, glued, wrapped around or tape?

 

[Mouse Vader]

Phew.

 

[Halliwax]

It’s it that simple as getting a fixed rpm motor..

I’ve been experimenting a lot and it has become very expensive..

Your going to need a motor controller because it depends on what is filming the effect..

Youll has to speed it up or slow it down on different cameras/phones

You also have to experiment with the width of the black line..

I bought black pin striping but I’m getting better results with electrical tape cut on a taper...

Again, once I get this dialed in I’ll share everything. Posting and linking to parts right now is just a waste of time and money.. trust me.. I got 7 motors on my work bench right now.. 3 controllers and my own custom controller I made..

And the components keep changing every time I play with it.. I got more parts coming now... it’s frustrating but I made a HUGE break through last Sunday night...

I will tell you this.. I’m trying to house everything inside my V2. If not, and I went the battery belt route (which I will do for the run I plan on doing of them)

It’s SOOOOO much easier...

 

[Mouse Vader]

Thanks Halliwax, I'll keep watch. in the mean time I'll concentrate on getting the hilt sorted.

 

[thd9791]

I read in SethS s guide that the ANH motorized stunt had a core that rotated! As opposed to just rotating the blade.

 

[SethS]

I read in SethS s guide that the ANH motorized stunt had a core that rotated! As opposed to just rotating the blade.

I only use the latest and greatest theories. You two are the experts. If you say otherwise, I'd believe you.

The idea of a rotating core may have come from seeing the ESB core in photos.

That said. For the OB1 stunts it would make sense if just the rod turned. We know the emitter assembly turned, so in my head, that's what kept the rod/blade centered and stabilized.

Right? If the engine is down low, and the rod is in it, that's a lot of length to keep from wiggling about. So fixing it to the emitter helps keep it in place, and the emitter spins with the rod.

Right?

But that doesn't account for the Luke and Vader stunts.

 

[Halliwax]

I think kurtboy came up with the spinning core idea

He uses a huge bearing to help spin the blade

I thought I remember him sharing this pic

Is obiwan holding the code in is hand? This blade tip is broken... I don’t want to derail this thread any further but this picture is a topic of another day..

You can see the blade here has a nipple just like the others

The v2 defiantly had a rod going up the shaft of it to spin the emitter. It was a much more complicated, yet simple design.. much more complicated then the Luke motorized stunt

You can house the motor right at the top, and attach the blade right into the motors shaft..

It’s quite possible the motor was too small to fit right inside the 1-1/2” tube. So a machined cylinder could have been made to cradle the motor to center it down the tube. And the set screw holds the cradle

If the motor was big enough, and I imagine they were, a simple set screw can pitch the motor inside the tube

Very simple setup, I image Vader’s was an exact copy (mechanically) of Luke’s motorized stunt

 

[kurtyboy]

I didn't come up with a rotating core. I just put a bearing at the emitter end to keep the blade sleeve centered and help it spin. It's bad enough trying to get it to stand up to energetic swinging with a bearing let alone without.

I'm using 3M Scotchlite 8910 fabric which is not available as an adhesive tape. Spray adhesive is clean but not very durable, while E6000 is durable but messy! Still, once spinning and illuminated it looks great either way.

I started experimenting with rotating round blades but until I can get machined sleeves/adapters made, they stand up to zero swinging. The ski pole is obviously far too thick but the golf club looked good. It may be a bit too flexible though.

 

[Halliwax]

Kurt your having a hard time spinning the round pole?!

I can spin mine at a 180degree Bk problem, what motor are you using?!

 

[kurtyboy]

I do have a problem spinning a <16mm pole wobbling around in a 36mm hole, yes!

I printed a crappy spacer but it needs a smooth machined one. It spins fine until I swing it. Same 21t 550 motor.

I'm going to try a 27T, 45T, and maybe up to an 80T. Progressively higher torque and lower RPMs. I didn't know they went that high until today.

 

[Mouse Vader]

Are you using gears?

 

[kurtyboy]

Never heard of them!

 

[Mouse Vader]

gearbox -little coggy things ?

 

[Ridire Firean]

Hey Gang! Just curious enough about the motors to do a quick Google search and came upon this page...

History of Radio Controlled Cars | Classic and Vintage RC Cars History of Radio Controlled Cars | We are an internet source for classic RC car pictures and information. From vintage vehicles to pre-modern sports cars, you’ll find it here.

...which made me Google again and led me here...

Tamiya 934 Chassis

...I'm not sayin' this was the ONLY electric motor in 1977, but since you're looking at R/C motors, the first electric R/C car (1976 Tamiya Porsche 934 Turbo) seems to have only had a 360 motor in it. So, you might need to downsize if you're going for AFBB.

When mugatu got me lookin' at Reel to Reel Players for two days straight on an Obi-wan washers hunt, it got me to thinking that the motors inside something akin to a Reel to Reel Player may have been used in the spinning blade sabers.

TAG! You're it! Have fun wrapping your head around all of the possible electric motor sources in 1977!

 

[Mouse Vader]

Thanks for the info but I for one am not trying to duplicate the original motor set up, after all problems with the motors appears to me one of the reasons the spinning blade was dropped. I want my stunt to work...

 

[thd9791]

Over in the Barbican/ANH Vader discussion, brandon was kind enough to chime in and this is what he said regarding ROTJ and maybe ESB stunt blades, ones he helped dig out one day

"
The blades are definitely tapered. These would be from ROJ and maybe ESB - I doubt they're ANH blades. They are light weight. I believe they are hollow, and on the base of them there's an aluminum collar inside the blade shaft, and another aluminum collar outside of it. A set screw passes through both and then would tighten down onto the post mounted in the handle -- presumably these collars were added to the hollw tubes in order to give the set screw something to "bite" into. The tube wall itself would not be enough.

The blades may be a composite material. Years ago a member of the props crew told me billiard cues. For what its worth..."

Looking into composite pool cues, but they do break down into smaller pieces.

Also not sure if tapered means the full length, as we see end-taper and full-length taper BTS