The Marvels (2023)

Tell me again, what exactly is Kang trying to do?
I think that's part of Marvel's issue. True, with Thanos we didn't know what he was up to either, but tipped it fairly well with the guantlet tease from Thor and stone's showing up everywhere. All we've heard about Kang, really, is from Loki S1 and a bit in Ant Man 3. Essentially, ALL the Kangs unleash war across the multiverse. Ant Man got by 1, but we saw, what? 100's or 1000's in the post credit scene there. They'll have to defeat them all, not just one. Presumably.
 
It looked like there was one (blue) Kang leader, some generals and a bunch of lackeys.

The one from Ant Man had been exiled by the Kang Continuum.

There were just a few pulling the strings.

Loki mentioned the Ant Man Kang as having been handled locally in that universe.
 
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I think the problem is more that they keep trying to top themselves and there's only so far that can go. It's a basic comic book problem, which makes it entirely understandable when it comes to Marvel. You start with a basic superhero. They face problems and have to dig deep to overcome them and then... they need to make the next enemy stronger. Then the hero has to get stronger. Lather, rinse, repeat until you've got Superman juggling planets and they have to reset the whole thing back to square one and do it over again.

In the very first movie, Iron Man faced a very simple enemy. It was a guy in a suit up against a guy in a suit. Then it just kept escalating until you were facing gods in the first Avengers movie, until you got to Thanos and the potential end of half of the life in the universe. Where do you go from there? Audiences don't want to go back to watching Tony Stark, or whoever you replace him with, punching a bad guy. That's one reason why, I think, in Phase 4, they started sidetracking into other things that weren't trying to top the last movie. The fact that identity politics got thrown into the mix and that alienated a huge part of their audience, I figure it was just them looking for something to do that wasn't "the universe is ending... AGAIN!" That's why the threat level kept getting smaller and "the message" kept getting bigger. Kevin Feige had no idea what else to do and he still doesn't.

Comics have never figured out the solution to the problem and no "cinematic universe" is going to either. You either need to reset everything, or, better, not grow as fast as they did. They didn't do the insanity that DC tried to do, but these things should take many, many years, over many, many movies, with only small changes along the way. Marvel didn't do it and now, I don't know that they can go back without losing their audience.

Granted, they've managed to drive away most of their audience now, so I'm not sure how much it really matters.
I think they need to start exploring problems that just power alone cannot punch, kick or blast one's way out of. That's why I like some of the one-shots Alex Ross did during his heyday, like Superman trying to feed the world, or Batman and the ultimate cause of crime. But it doesn't have to be the whole "woke until broke" thing; Star Trek presented these kinds of issues without shoving the message down the audience's throat.

On that note: one of the best I ever saw was the episode of Justice League Unlimited, where in the future Amanda Waller was talking with Terry (Batman Beyond) about an incident in the past where the antagonist Ace was dying.

Rather than give it all away, let me just post the clip:

Batman didn't punch his way out of that one, and the outcome was far different than most were thinking.

I may be diverging from your point, Cephus, but I do think it's possible for them to avoid running into the "superpower arms race" issue if they stop trying to go for more and start trying for better.

But Disney won't do that, no matter what. They're a lost cause.
 
Yeah, I'm hoping they just recast the role. I'm probably in the minority here, but I really dig Kang and the whole multiverse struggle. I'd also figure they're pretty heavily invested in the storyline now, so it wouldn't make any sense to just...drop everything.

One thing I'm wondering is how much stuff Majors had shot for any of the unreleased stuff, and whether they'd feel compelled to go back and reshoot (which would, of course, balloon the budget and virtually guarantee "box office bomb" status purely by virtue of having spent too much money on the picture(s)), or if they'll leave him in. Or, for that matter, if they've shot anything at all.

You'd hope they'd be smart and not have shot anything after about March when this all broke...but then Marvel hasn't exactly been smart in its budgeting and production approaches recently.
Actually, I think Kang is far underused and underexplored. I agree that they should recast Kang; it's just going to cause more harm if they don't.

As far as reshoots: if it's Marvel, just work in a scene where Kang is injured and the healing process alters his visual appearance. That way, they can keep the footage and at the same time introduce a new actor with a logical explanation.
 
I'm not big on the idea of one misdemeanor conviction ruining anyone's career.

Several incidents & convictions? That says a lot more IMO.
I agree in general. But, when you have 8 and 9 figures bet on you, you can't slip up. You have to know that. I view acting - especially leading man type stuff as more of a privilege and not a right. This is not keeping him from working in general, it cost him a big check in multiple movies. I'd wager the contract he signed had clauses for stuff like this as well, so he also knew that going in.

Hollywood is a big PR game. You have a bad look, no matter how long or short a time, you're toxic. He'll likely be back in a year or two doing other projects using a new team. This isn't 'will never work again bad' unless he stops trying.
 
Bit of a weird place to be having a discussion about Jonathan Majors given he wasn't in The Marvels but then this thread went wildly off topic a long time ago.
So if you can't beat them, join them.
I think Denzel Washington or his son would be a great recasting choice.
 
I agree in general. But, when you have 8 and 9 figures bet on you, you can't slip up. You have to know that. I view acting - especially leading man type stuff as more of a privilege and not a right. This is not keeping him from working in general, it cost him a big check in multiple movies. I'd wager the contract he signed had clauses for stuff like this as well, so he also knew that going in.

Hollywood is a big PR game. You have a bad look, no matter how long or short a time, you're toxic. He'll likely be back in a year or two doing other projects using a new team. This isn't 'will never work again bad' unless he stops trying.

That's pretty much how I feel about it. If you wanna get paid 8-9 figures to be a public figure then your private life is fair game. But at the same time I think literally anybody is capable of getting an anomalous incident on their record. IMO it's fair for Disney to yank the Kang role from JM right now but it shouldn't cost him the rest of his career.
 
Tell me again, what exactly is Kang trying to do?
The same thing he tries to do every night, Ravonna.

TRY TO TAKE OVER THE WORLD!!!
Have they been shooting anything since march? I'd think not with the strikes and all and it just getting back into swing a few weeks ago.
That's a fair point. I'd forgotten that all shooting would've stopped whenver the strikes hit.
 
The Jonathan Majors situation is messed up. It's very similar to the Johnny Depp case and even he hasn't recovered from that.

What's worse about Jonathan Majors is that the first thing I saw him in was the Lovecraft Country TV show. There wasn't much talk about it here. It wasn't the best show. But I would recommend checking out the first episode which was really good. It was like a short movie. Also there is an episode, I believe the third one, that involves the characters getting a new home. Those episodes are worth watching for the situations that occur.

There is definitely an agenda going on with some media not showing the full or editing the released car incident video. My advise is to always get that sort of thing direct and from the source. But with this incident and the The Marvels performance, I assume some big changes are about to take place. They have time though since only one movie, Deadpool 3 is scheduled for next year. Personally, I haven't seen Deadpool 1 or 2 in full yet. Only bits and pieces.

So I'm looking for Fantastic Four to restart everything. Which will probably be difficult since others have tried Fantastic Four 3 times and none of them are movies I want to rewatch. Although I thought the last one was ok but that's because it was more Ultimate Fantastic Four and I thought the comic was ok.
 
Agreed.

I really don't think they've shot anything that's in the can, so to speak. If there was anything existing for the new Cap film, they're in the process of almost reshooting that from the ground up, so there's an easy fix.

I think a recast would be able to work well, if they simply say that since Kang was being constantly monitored by the TVA, he somehow altered his variants to hide in plain sight, so to speak. Just think, if they cast a different actor in every MARVEL project that includes him, sometimes revealing it was him & other times keep it a secret that he's there.

If they go with just one actor, which would probably be their route, I'd like to see David Washington, from TENET, & then have a possible cameo from Denzel as an older version at some point.
Re: Denzel re cast . “ Thanos ain’t got s****on me!”
 
I still give Depp a side-eye, but Majors actually got convicted, which is pretty significant. Even if you point to the lower level charge involved, it's still a conviction.

Agree about Majors. A conviction has to count for something.

It's a pretty minor one though. Some people get recorded doing worse on video without ever being charged.


Depp has issues but it's really obvious who was in the wrong on that Depp/Heard mess. Depp had 30 years of famous exes who said they didn't recognize the behavior that Heard claimed. Whereas Heard was 20 years younger than Depp and she already had more partner abuse in her history.

Just my two cents.
 
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Yeah... I know the thread is completely derailed, but along with Majors conviction, there's also the fact of his supposed victim turning herself in for charges as well, but the DA declined to prosecute.

Figuring that charging her wouldn't have brought as much high profile coverage as charging someone famous.
 
Yeah... I know the thread is completely derailed, but along with Majors conviction, there's also the fact of his supposed victim turning herself in for charges as well, but the DA declined to prosecute.

Figuring that charging her wouldn't have brought as much high profile coverage as charging someone famous.
Without any of us knowing the actual details behind their decision, it’s s stretch to jump to that conclusion really.
 

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