The Mandalorian (TV series)

[Usagi Pilgrim]

added numbers to help clarify answers. a lot of us that are a bit bummed about these characters tend to come from the same places.

First and foremost, a lot of us mostly just don't want to see them in mandalorian, because LIKED mandalorian without them, it's a change, that seems unnecessary, and they are characters from shows that had completely different tones from mandalroian; so there's great concern that to make the cartoon characters seem "right", they will have to change the tone of the mandalorian.

1. a lot of the frustration for me, comes from the long running serial nature of the cartoons. they are meant to be watchable by young kids, so long term serious consequences are few and far between, there are a lot of "kids show" plots, etc. also, everything needs to be back to "normal" after 1-2 episodes, so they can tell the next little story. This has a tendency to simplify the characters, and to make it where they are accomplishing ludicrous feats in 15 minutes. it makes them very mary-sueish, just so they can get through an episode.

2. see my first point, we didn't care for the shows, and these characters showing up signals a higher chance of mandalorian being LIKE those shows. so we'd rather the characters just not show up.

3. the character's existence is fine, they functioned within the logic of the shows they were created for. we just don't want those characters bringing stuff from those shows over with them.

Fair enough. Thank you.

 

[NakedMoleRat]

I have faith in team F&F. They have proven to me that they are fans of the show just like I am and that they know what they are doing.

That does not mean that I will automatically like everything that they do. I am also a Star Trek fan, but I did not enjoy every episode that Rick Berman produced. I was so sick of the mirror universe episodes that I mostly did not watch them.

I was not a fan of every character there. But I enjoyed and still enjoy the series.

Stories grow and evolve over time. New becomes familiar and then old. The writer knows that he has to make his characters grow and change.

Take a look at Richard Brenner’s character from Homicide, the show was canceled but the character was added to Law and Order on a completely different network. And it worked.

I am happy to have characters I know and like in different shows.

Heck, I live in Phoenix AZ, but a while ago I ran into someone who went for the same high school as me in Rapid City SD!

If the world can be small, so can the universe.

 

[HMSwolfe]

I guess my question would be, why do you hate the characters?

Do you hate their character arcs, because they actually do have one?

Do you hate them just because they were in shows that you hate?

Or do you just hate them because you have issues with their existence at all?

I'm not asking you to justify your opinion, I'm just legit curious.

I took my son to see The Clone Wars movie when it first came out in theaters, & I absolutely HATED Ahsoka. I equated her to Ewoks. Today, I'm more excited to see her in this show than anyone that's been rumored.

That's why I ask.

Let’s take Ahsoka, seeing as how she’s by far the most popular thing to come out of those shows.

I think her inclusion and use in TCW is so fundamentally flawed as to defy all reason. I mean, seriously. If you were a Jedi master, which of these two things would bother you more, concerning Anakin. Would you rather give him an ultimately meaningless title and decorative place on the Jedi council to appease his fragile ego? Or would you trust him with an impressionable youth, in uncertain times, in situations where they’d be far from the watchful eye of anyone?

Okay, so you argue that they did it, so it’s canon. Whatever. Anakin now has an apprentice. So, logically, what is the most drama that you can create with this apprentice? You can have this apprentice discover that he’s married, and have Anakin be forced to silence her, possibly on the battlefield in a way that makes it look like a simple casualty of war. Or, you can have a final confrontation, wherenot just any old Jedi, not a teacher he’d resented, but his apprentice. Someone he’d trained and who’d trusted him and believed in him when others didn’t. And now Anakin has to destroy the Jedi. Wouldn’t that make the most sense narratively?

Nope, fans like her and this is a kids’ show, so she survives anything and everything. She’s got a convenient “get out of jail free” card so she’s no longer in the order by the time the purge comes around.

And these big flaws I find with her character are representative of many problems I have with both shows. Illogical choices made with characters that don’t work for me. I have a lot of other problems with those shows but they don’t necessarily track over to the Mandalorian like these characters and writing do, so I won’t address those.

Moreover, I don’t care for any performance of those two shows. And finally, honestly? I think aliens in SW should be seasoning, not entrees. I prefer the aliens as they were in the OT. Mostly it’s either Chewie (who’s basically a dog that can fix things) and then background characters.

Really, though, more than anything at all about those shows is that they are supplanting what Star Wars is in the minds of the audience. Many will claim otherwise, that those two shows aren’t different from the OT, just more Star Wars, but I disagree. They’re not the worst things ever. They’re definitely not the worst content ever produced with the Star Wars name attached. But when the standard that all Star Wars is held to is a couple of really third-rate cartoons, rather than the actual original films, that’s what all new Star Wars will be. I don’t have any problem with anyone enjoying TCW or Rebels. I enjoy the 2D animated Clone Wars miniseries. I liked Solo. Heck, I liked TLJ when I saw it in theaters. But that doesn’t mean I think they are how all SW should be judged. I have a problem with this constant proclamation that they’re so good or possibly even better than the originals, which just isn’t true. They can’t even be measured on the same scale, because they’re such different stories with such different audiences and focuses. The “hate” I have for the shows does not come merely from their quality, but on how high a pedestal they sit in many fans’ minds.

Ultimately, I hope that none of what I may say here comes across as demeaning or offensive. I do not equate liking those shows with being an idiot. I’m not looking for fights or enemies. I just want a little more thoughtful analysis of what is actually working and what isn’t. I want people to be able to like something without it having to be good also. You can totally enjoy something without it being good. I just want new Star Wars to be better than those shows, and many others think that peak excellence has already been achieved.

 

[Usagi Pilgrim]

Let’s take Ahsoka, seeing as how she’s by far the most popular thing to come out of those shows.

I think her inclusion and use in TCW is so fundamentally flawed as to defy all reason. I mean, seriously. If you were a Jedi master, which of these two things would bother you more, concerning Anakin. Would you rather give him an ultimately meaningless title and decorative place on the Jedi council to appease his fragile ego? Or would you trust him with an impressionable youth, in uncertain times, in situations where they’d be far from the watchful eye of anyone?

Okay, so you argue that they did it, so it’s canon. Whatever. Anakin now has an apprentice. So, logically, what is the most drama that you can create with this apprentice? You can have this apprentice discover that he’s married, and have Anakin be forced to silence her, possibly on the battlefield in a way that makes it look like a simple casualty of war. Or, you can have a final confrontation, wherenot just any old Jedi, not a teacher he’d resented, but his apprentice. Someone he’d trained and who’d trusted him and believed in him when others didn’t. And now Anakin has to destroy the Jedi. Wouldn’t that make the most sense narratively?

Nope, fans like her and this is a kids’ show, so she survives anything and everything. She’s got a convenient “get out of jail free” card so she’s no longer in the order by the time the purge comes around.

And these big flaws I find with her character are representative of many problems I have with both shows. Illogical choices made with characters that don’t work for me. I have a lot of other problems with those shows but they don’t necessarily track over to the Mandalorian like these characters and writing do, so I won’t address those.

Moreover, I don’t care for any performance of those two shows. And finally, honestly? I think aliens in SW should be seasoning, not entrees. I prefer the aliens as they were in the OT. Mostly it’s either Chewie (who’s basically a dog that can fix things) and then background characters.

Really, though, more than anything at all about those shows is that they are supplanting what Star Wars is in the minds of the audience. Many will claim otherwise, that those two shows aren’t different from the OT, just more Star Wars, but I disagree. They’re not the worst things ever. They’re definitely not the worst content ever produced with the Star Wars name attached. But when the standard that all Star Wars is held to is a couple of really third-rate cartoons, rather than the actual original films, that’s what all new Star Wars will be. I don’t have any problem with anyone enjoying TCW or Rebels. I enjoy the 2D animated Clone Wars miniseries. I liked Solo. Heck, I liked TLJ when I saw it in theaters. But that doesn’t mean I think they are how all SW should be judged. I have a problem with this constant proclamation that they’re so good or possibly even better than the originals, which just isn’t true. They can’t even be measured on the same scale, because they’re such different stories with such different audiences and focuses. The “hate” I have for the shows does not come merely from their quality, but on how high a pedestal they sit in many fans’ minds.

Ultimately, I hope that none of what I may say here comes across as demeaning or offensive. I do not equate liking those shows with being an idiot. I’m not looking for fights or enemies. I just want a little more thoughtful analysis of what is actually working and what isn’t. I want people to be able to like something without it having to be good also. You can totally enjoy something without it being good. I just want new Star Wars to be better than those shows, and many others think that peak excellence has already been achieved.

Thank you. I appreciate the response.

 

[NakedMoleRat]

When Ryan Johnson made the last Jedi, he basically dropped a turd into the Star Wars universe, which ultimately landed on JJ Abrams desk. Abrams then had to work off of that turd and make the rise of Skywalker. Sure I still had a little smell to it, but at least the turd has been polished!

Your argument that a whiny Anakin who is mad about being on the council but not a master, and should not be given a Padawan does not really hold ground because all of this happened before revenge of the Sith. When he was training Asoka, he has not yet been seduced completely by the emperor.

I think that’s the biggest problem people have with that revenge of the Sith happened so quickly that the rise of Darth Vader was not even within the realm of happening the way the movie depicted it.

And also, calling Chewbacca a dog that can fix things sort of really pissed me off. Did you see how he fell to the ground with a broken heart when he had heard that now Leia too had died? Yeah, that’s a good boy!

 

[HMSwolfe]

When Ryan Johnson made the last Jedi, he basically dropped a turd into the Star Wars universe, which ultimately landed on JJ Abrams desk. Abrams then had to work off of that turd and make the rise of Skywalker. Sure I still had a little smell to it, but at least the turd has been polished!

Your argument that a whiny Anakin who is mad about being on the council but not a master, and should not be given a Padawan does not really hold ground because all of this happened before revenge of the Sith. When he was training Asoka, he has not yet been seduced completely by the emperor.

I think that’s the biggest problem people have with that revenge of the Sith happened so quickly that the rise of Darth Vader was not even within the realm of happening the way the movie depicted it.

And also, calling Chewbacca a dog that can fix things sort of really pissed me off. Did you see how he fell to the ground with a broken heart when he had heard that now Leia too had died? Yeah, that’s a good boy!

I don’t mean it derogatorily. That’s just literally what he was. He was literally just based off of Lucas’ dog. Sure, he was more intelligent than that, being that he could speak in his own way, but essentially? A dog. And I mean that in the nicest way. Dogs are loyal.

They’re just movies. He’s just a sidekick. That’s all. In fact, that’s part of why the OT were so much better. They were just movies. They weren’t a religion. I just want the new stuff to be better as movies/shows, not as “Star Wars™ content”

And excuse me, wasn’t Anakin a whiny SOB in the previous film? Isn’t AOTC’s entire purpose in laying the groundwork for his dissatisfaction with the Jedi? You tell me what normal, responsible adult would allow screamy, sobby, just lost his mother and possibly murdered a bunch of people Anakin anywhere near anyone younger and more impressionable than himself. Sure, TCW is somewhat of a course correction for the prequels, but they simply aren’t compatible with the films. They really aren’t.

Final note, TROS is way worse than TLJ, and worse than TCW or Rebels as well.

 

[Sluis Van Shipyards]

Ok I finally got to watch the whole series up until the new one tomorrow. Long story, but bad crap went down at that time last year so I wasn't in the mood to watch. Anyway this is soooo much better than the Sequel crap! I think any one episode is better than them. I have a little faith that we can still get good SW now.

Why does the Mando not have a Deathwatch symbol on his shoulder? My nephew said it's because he's a child of the Deathwatch (I think Bo Katan calls him that) so maybe he's not a full member or something.

 

[Lightning]

She’s got a convenient “get out of jail free” card so she’s no longer in the order by the time the purge comes around.

I understand your point of view, but one small quibble, they did not use the "not in the order" loophole. She still had to survive the clones trying to kill her. Now I could see the fact that she survived the clones actually making it even worse in your eyes, but I felt the need to clarify.

 

[HMSwolfe]

I understand your point of view, but one small quibble, they did not use the "not in the order" loophole. She still had to survive the clones trying to kill her. Now I could see the fact that she survived the clones actually making it even worse in your eyes, but I felt the need to clarify.

Yeah, I get it, they kind of walked that back with the last season they just released, but still. My main point—robbing the narrative of any weight by not taking advantage of the personal conflict over having to kill his own apprentice—still stands.

 

[harrisonp]

I realize they’re not for everyone, be it the animation or the “childish” nature, but when TCW and Rebels hit their mark they legitimately have made me cry. There’s a lot of “my” Star Wars in them so I’m happy to see them tie into the overarching plot of the Mandalorian. That said I DO NOT want them to overtake Mando, because that’s not the point of the show, I just liken it to the “where’s Thor/Iron Man/Cap” question in the Marvel universe. When a plot comes close to those characters it’s better they be included than weirdly absent.

 

[HMSwolfe]

I realize they’re not for everyone, be it the animation or the “childish” nature, but when TCW and Rebels hit their mark they legitimately have made me cry. There’s a lot of “my” Star Wars in them so I’m happy to see them tie into the overarching plot of the Mandalorian. That said I DO NOT want them to overtake Mando, because that’s not the point of the show, I just liken it to the “where’s Thor/Iron Man/Cap” question in the Marvel universe. When a plot comes close to those characters it’s better they be included than weirdly absent.

That’s the thing though—I don’t dislike them for being animation. In fact, part of why I dislike them as a whole is that I consider them bad animation. I really think both shows were animated because they were too cheap to do it live-action, and that should never be a reason to do animation. Animation is an art form, and those shows…well, it’s not for the animation that people watch ‘em.

 

[harrisonp]

Okay the passage of time was a little hinky but that was a pretty great episode. I’m shocked by how much advancement in plot these last two episodes have given us.

 

[kalkamel]

Okay the passage of time was a little hinky but that was a pretty great episode. I’m shocked by how much advancement in plot these last two episodes have given us.

Yeah, those two mechanics fixed that ship in RECORD time.

 

[Somerset]

I like how Greef went on the mission wearing the most impractical garments... Fashion comes first.

 

[Darth Fetty]

Well, that was a delight from beginning to end. Well done Carl Weathers.

This show is fulfilling my Star Wars dreams. And now I have an odd desire to go out and get some macaroons.

 

[Laspector]

Great episode, yet once again 20 or 30 Stormtroopers--totally worthless lol.

Speeder bike chase was cool and I am so loving these folding TIE fighters!

 

[Somerset]

It reminded me a little bit of the first few levels of Jedi Outcast when you have to break into the Imperial outpost before you get any Jedi powers - blasting stormtroopers, finding keys off imperial officers, flicking switches to turn off reactors etc. A very enjoyable morning watch.

I also liked how the base appeared to be a long way off on the planet hologram but turned out to be about a 5 minute drive away!

 

[CelticRuins]

Just when you think Mando couldn't get any more DAD....

 

[sztriki]

Please no fking lightsabers, please no lightsabers, don't start swinging and twirling any lightsabers, don't even ignite one for a phone call, if I see a lightsaber tonight I'll lose my sith...

 

[CelticRuins]

Please no fking lightsabers, please no lightsabers, don't start swinging and twirling any lightsabers, don't even ignite one for a phone call, if I see a lightsaber tonight I'll lose my sith...

You're good. Can't say the same for next week though...