sztriki
Sr Member
Of course...same way it always seemed that Palps has not really died in ROTJ, I presume? Although we still don’t know for sure what is going to happen in Ep IX it already makes perfect sense.
Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (Pre-release)
- Thread starter Bryancd
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Bigdaddy
Master Member
My theory that palpy is Anakin's Dad (my head canon since ROTS) was shot down pretty hard before the comic book retcon. Now I'm hearing how it "always made sense"!Of course...same way it always seemed that Palps has not really died in ROTJ, I presume? Although we still don’t know for sure what is going to happen in Ep IX it already makes perfect sense.
On another note, it's a slow day on my jobsite so I'm watching TLJ again in 10 minute increments... it's funny and painful at the same time.
cboath
Master Member
Fans can pull all this ancillary material into discusions. It's really there for hard core fans anyhow.
But, you flat cannot use in on screen without re-explaining the whole thing.
You can put it more simply that 99% of the theater going audience won't have seen anything but the movies. You could be very generous and say that stuff has a giant following, but it's still going to be 90%+.
You CAN do cameo's of that stuff or EU things, you can have throw away lines...
Finn: 'What as the name of the pilot you met on Jakku you were telling about?"
Rey: "Oh, you mean Hera?"
And that's as far as it gets. It can't have anything to do with the actual plot or story as the overwhelming majority of people won't be aware of it. Do that is bad story telling because you will confuse or lose the vast majority of the audience.
It's not that they couldn't use that stuff, but as noted, they'd have to re-explain the entire thing so the audience gets it. And even at 2.5 hours, they have too much other stuff to take care of.
But, you flat cannot use in on screen without re-explaining the whole thing.
You can put it more simply that 99% of the theater going audience won't have seen anything but the movies. You could be very generous and say that stuff has a giant following, but it's still going to be 90%+.
You CAN do cameo's of that stuff or EU things, you can have throw away lines...
Finn: 'What as the name of the pilot you met on Jakku you were telling about?"
Rey: "Oh, you mean Hera?"
And that's as far as it gets. It can't have anything to do with the actual plot or story as the overwhelming majority of people won't be aware of it. Do that is bad story telling because you will confuse or lose the vast majority of the audience.
It's not that they couldn't use that stuff, but as noted, they'd have to re-explain the entire thing so the audience gets it. And even at 2.5 hours, they have too much other stuff to take care of.
ConvergencePro
Master Member
My theory that palpy is Anakin's Dad (my head canon since ROTS) was shot down pretty hard before the comic book retcon. Now I'm hearing how it "always made sense"!
On another note, it's a slow day on my jobsite so I'm watching TLJ again in 10 minute increments... it's funny and painful at the same time.
Man.. all too ya dude.. I tried one more time on blu-ray thinking maybe I just had a bad theater experience and maybe made it 20 min, realizing this was the first starwars film I actually truly hated because its just so broken
DARKSIDE72
Sr Member
I'm really excited to see this film!
That is just as soon as a dirty cam version is available for downloading.....
That is just as soon as a dirty cam version is available for downloading.....
Mr Webber
Master Member
Having ships perform Hyperkazi moves and taking out fleets in one go has never been done in Star Wars before because it undermines every potential space battle moving forward. Thats because until recently, Star Wars directors and writers have'nt been selfish, pig headed bums.
No matter how majestic Abrams makes the battles in this movie there will be a large part of the audience that will be thinking why didnt insert name here just plough a few ships in there and end it. Thats why its never been and should NEVER have been done.
Joek3rr
Master Member
It seems I process Star Wars a little differently?Of course...same way it always seemed that Palps has not really died in ROTJ, I presume? Although we still don’t know for sure what is going to happen in Ep IX it already makes perfect sense.
I mean I like Canto Bight, even most people who like TLJ don't like Canto Bight.
you even like the upcoming movie, and is not even out yet.It seems I process Star Wars a little differently?
Joek3rr
Master Member
Actually I'm little apprehensive. JJ isn't known for ending things very strongly. But hopefully I'm wrong.
Bigdaddy
Master Member
I'll say this, TLJ had some nice visuals.On another note, it's a slow day on my jobsite so I'm watching TLJ again in 10 minute increments... it's funny and painful at the same time.
I do think most people will be wondering why the ship ramming technique isn't used in the next film. I didn't see anything on screen to infer those special shields, it would have been easy to put a few lines in if that was actually the explanation.
Think the space horses in the trailer are the same ones from canto?
harrisonp
Sr Member
The horses look to be a different species than the ones on Canto Bight, and honestly I’m willing to just chalk the Holdo maneuver up as a fluke never to be attempted again. If JJ was feeling saucy he could have written a line into TROS to explain the particulars of that situation. That’s the kind of “ancillary retcon” that actually counts for me, even if it’s lazy.
Joek3rr
Master Member
Okay so let's just take the films. No books no Clone Wars.
If the only time we see this is in TLJ. And we've never seen before and we've never see it again. Then wouldn't the logical extrapolation be that there was something unique to that scenario that allowed it to occur? Something unique either to Raddus or the Supremacy?
to be fair.... kamikaze pilots are a thing, and we currently don’t fly fighter jets into bases.
planes into buildings happens... pretty devestatingly, but the answer isn’t “why don’t we build a huge plane and crash it into them?”
i loved that TLJ shot. It’s maybe one of my fave moments in the series, in one of the weakest flicks
I still enjoy TLJ, I just skip the casino bit.
(haha... I have no idea why I’m always commenting on your stuff. I almost always agree with you...you just also always make me wanna comment)
sztriki
Sr Member
So to parallel it...at the end of BTTF2 the Delorean gets struck by lightning and Doc goes back to 1885. But the car was just hovering, there was no 88 mph in the equation anywhere. So we can either say, yep, that's a plot hole and they mucked up their own rules or we can say that when the Doc opened the door of the car in 2015 that door opening really did look diferent, so they surely made some mods to the car so that it could skip the 88 mph part just that once.
I mean I can blabber on, but 12:20 onwards of this summarizes it much better than I could:
Anyhoos, onwards to the future. I still haven't read up any plot leaks or spoilers, so there's still a chance I'll get surprised.
jhazard
Sr Member
If all we have are 7 movies preceding it, (well 8 or 9 if you count Solo and Rogue One) and it's never happened, even when the stakes couldn't be more dire (the threat of loosing a planet) - and then to have a character with with little to no screen presence or history in previous said films, who's displayed zero tactical competence - pull off something like that...
There is no logical extrapolation. That's the problem, in a nutshell. The story is being shown to us - extrapolation shouldn't be necessary.
The logical extrapolation is ask wtf was that all about?
Because it doesn't make sense that it hasn't been used before. If this was unique to other similar situations, then the difference that makes this possible needs to be accounted for. Imo, of course.
cboath
Master Member
If all we have are 7 movies preceding it, (well 8 or 9 if you count Solo and Rogue One) and it's never happened, even when the stakes couldn't be more dire (the threat of loosing a planet) - and then to have a character with with little to no screen presence or history in previous said films, who's displayed zero tactical competence - pull off something like that...
There is no logical extrapolation. That's the problem, in a nutshell. The story is being shown to us - extrapolation shouldn't be necessary.
The logical extrapolation is ask wtf was that all about?
Just to play devils advocate, you could say the capital ships are too expensive and have too many people on them to do something like that (the loss is just too great one way or the other or both).
Kamikaze may be a things since it was used in WW2, but, it wasn't really an offensive strategy of genius. It was an act of desperation. To my knowledge it's never been used outside of that scenario. They had no hope of winning unless they could take out the fleet and that was the only option left to them. In the end, it was, if i'm going down, i'm going down swinging
The TRIED an in-film explanation of why not...'it takes too many people', but the were able to rig the entire thing up for here in a few seconds (at least it seemed that way).
Master Boda
Sr Member
I might be wrong but I think we had seen this in ROTJ,I believe it was Wedge that commented “they are heading for the medical friget” and you can see some TIE’s crashing into it.
HeartBlade
Sr Member
ok, the problem is advanced experimental shields isn’t a good enough explanation from a fan perspective or a layman perspective.
Fan perspective - hyperspace as alternative dimension
A hardcore fan knows that hyperspace is an alternative dimension ships enter when they reach the speed of light to travel even faster. Ships essentially pop out of hyperspace as a result. Coordinate input in hyperspace is important because of mass objects (stars and planets) cast a “shadow” with their gravitational pull which can pull the ship out of hyperspace. There is a lot unknown about hyperspace but if the hyperspace ram ks used, Holdo should have poped out of space with the ship in the same place as the center ship, ripping it apart from the inside (if that is how objects entering the same location in a dimension work)
Casual viewer - hyperspace is just going very fast
Let’s assume going Lightspeed is just going super fast. Going fast entails more damage when you drive into something, which is why Holdo went Lightspeed in her ramming. Why don’t other ships do this when desperate?
Fan perspective - hyperspace as alternative dimension
A hardcore fan knows that hyperspace is an alternative dimension ships enter when they reach the speed of light to travel even faster. Ships essentially pop out of hyperspace as a result. Coordinate input in hyperspace is important because of mass objects (stars and planets) cast a “shadow” with their gravitational pull which can pull the ship out of hyperspace. There is a lot unknown about hyperspace but if the hyperspace ram ks used, Holdo should have poped out of space with the ship in the same place as the center ship, ripping it apart from the inside (if that is how objects entering the same location in a dimension work)
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Casual viewer - hyperspace is just going very fast
Let’s assume going Lightspeed is just going super fast. Going fast entails more damage when you drive into something, which is why Holdo went Lightspeed in her ramming. Why don’t other ships do this when desperate?
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