Timmythekid
Sr Member
Nawwww, I'm sorry, I'm gonna need you to show your work on that one.
Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (Pre-release)
- Thread starter Bryancd
- Start date
Hmmmm....Has Freddie weighed-in on this theory?
If not, I suggest running it by him before taking it any further.
On a serious note...I think some may be giving the sequel trilogy creators far more credit than is deserved, regarding their research and knowledge of “Star Wars Lore”. I doubt they even know what “Sith Alchemy” is.
I am pretty sure that the only standard they utilized in their decision-making was “wouldn’t it be cool if...[Palpatine returned /Star Destroyers flew out of ice / the Death Star remains were a set-piece / Rey flipped over a Tie Fighter]?”
Image over substance, character, and story seems to be the motivator for the decisions being made.
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Are Thundarr and the gang in this group? I could swear that I see them.
“Ariel! Ookla!! We Riiiiiiiiiide!!!”
“Ariel! Ookla!! We Riiiiiiiiiide!!!”
Joek3rr
Master Member
Even if the creators didn't know everything. They have people at Lucasfilm that know Star Wars almost as good as its creator. People like Pablo Hildago, Leeland Chee, Dave Filoni. JJ said when he was working TFA he was emailing Pablo daily.
Oh by the way look at the poster. That's Palpatine's Sith Alchemy.
Joek3rr
Master Member
Maybe it was just me. But when I was kid I thought it was odd that Palpatine suddenly exploded. I always thought he was supposed to have fallen to the reactor, but that's not enough time.
Hmm...
Now I could be wrong, but I don’t think that the creators of the SE would call that “Sith alchemy”...
I think they would call it “cool atmospheric lightning surrounding the face of a toy figure”.
Who knows? Maybe JJ goes to bed every night reading “Star Wars” books and leading think-tank writers rooms that are deeply entrenched in the history of the franchise. Maybe he has used terms like “Sith Alchemy” in his demands for verisimilitude in the scripts. Maybe he could regal all of us with a deep understanding of the characters, history, and motivations in the franchise that would blow us away.
It’s possible....
Highly unlikely.
But, it is possible...
On the other hand, Disney has a long history with understanding dark sorcery in their prior films. Perhaps Palp. will, indeed, cast dark spells in this film by invoking the darkest of incantations!
“BIPPITY-BOPPITY-BOO!! (Cackle, Cackle) UNLIMITED BOPPITY and BOOOOO!!”
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cboath
Master Member
The ultimate conclusion to george's overall plan was obi wan (and maybe yoda, i'm not sure) crossing back over to fight with Luke to take down EP in the very end.
So, even if george's plan involved EP coming back (and i don't think he came back, they just couldn't take him down til the tail end), you can't pull it out of your ass for IX with no shred of reference in 7 and 8 and claim it was the plan all along. If that was the plan all along there's probably no snoke, or we see snoke reporting to someone else. There wasn't a trace of remote hint that Snoke had any connection to anyone or that EP was anything put a pile of 30 year old ashes.
And, we've not seen him still. He could be a ghost ala Ben/Yoda or a disembodied spirit and we get voice only. We'll have to see. But to say he was pulling the strings in 7 and 8 is simply too big a stretch. Sure, he was doing that in 4 and 5 as well, but there was a throw away line in ANH to inform you there was an emperor and you see his head (originally a monkey head) in ESB and you were scared of him because vader was the big bad-ass and vader was scared of him. That doesn't work for the ST because there was nothing in regard to him. We were supposed to be afraid of snoke, and they did a good job and conveying that in 8, until they opted to simply write him off.
A number of people say Rey hasn't earned anything (and she probably hasn't), EP hasn't earned a damn thing in regard to the ST. To try and say it was all due to him in the end is disingenuous and smacks of '@#$%, RJ killed off snoke too early no we need a big bad...what to do??'
Look, i'll allow for the fact JJ could pull off a miraculous finale. I just wouldn't put money on it, but i'd say it's within the realm of possibility. But if they can somehow tie him into anything from 7 or 8 it'll be an amazing feat of retcon because there's nothing there in that regard.
So, even if george's plan involved EP coming back (and i don't think he came back, they just couldn't take him down til the tail end), you can't pull it out of your ass for IX with no shred of reference in 7 and 8 and claim it was the plan all along. If that was the plan all along there's probably no snoke, or we see snoke reporting to someone else. There wasn't a trace of remote hint that Snoke had any connection to anyone or that EP was anything put a pile of 30 year old ashes.
And, we've not seen him still. He could be a ghost ala Ben/Yoda or a disembodied spirit and we get voice only. We'll have to see. But to say he was pulling the strings in 7 and 8 is simply too big a stretch. Sure, he was doing that in 4 and 5 as well, but there was a throw away line in ANH to inform you there was an emperor and you see his head (originally a monkey head) in ESB and you were scared of him because vader was the big bad-ass and vader was scared of him. That doesn't work for the ST because there was nothing in regard to him. We were supposed to be afraid of snoke, and they did a good job and conveying that in 8, until they opted to simply write him off.
A number of people say Rey hasn't earned anything (and she probably hasn't), EP hasn't earned a damn thing in regard to the ST. To try and say it was all due to him in the end is disingenuous and smacks of '@#$%, RJ killed off snoke too early no we need a big bad...what to do??'
Look, i'll allow for the fact JJ could pull off a miraculous finale. I just wouldn't put money on it, but i'd say it's within the realm of possibility. But if they can somehow tie him into anything from 7 or 8 it'll be an amazing feat of retcon because there's nothing there in that regard.
Mr Webber
Master Member
If it didn't happen in the movies, it didn't happen. Just as it appears that to some if it did happen in the movies, it still didn't happen.
Joek3rr
Master Member
If what didn't happen?
Mr Webber
Master Member
The ancillary explanations for poor storytelling you keep posting, thats what.
Master Boda
Sr Member
Because Anakin looked to Palpatine as a father figure,and Palpatine was playing on Anakins emotions.I think that's a good way of putting it. Though you have wonder, when Palpatine says, "I need your help son." Is he calling him son in a sort of grandfatherly way? Or is it something else?
Master Boda
Sr Member
I believe Palpatine in that poster is a Hot Toys figure as well.
ConvergencePro
Master Member
I just wanna know what the look on peoples faces was when whoever said “Oh! Oh! What if we had them riding horses across the top of a star destroyer rising out of the ice in space?!?!” pitched the idea..
Joek3rr
Master Member
It's not an ancillary explanation. That's just how the hyperspace works in the Star Wars universe. And examples of that.
Bottom line, you can run into things, and cause catastrophic damage, before TLJ ever came out. If you don't like that. Okay, but understand that's your headcanon.
Joek3rr
Master Member
The Raddus is equipped with experimental shields. One of the reasons it can withstand a continual bombardment throughout the film. When the Raddus impacts the Supremacy, instead of vaporizing in a blinding flash plasma, the shield's energy field holds moments longer than a standard shield. Allowing the plasma traveling at nearly the speed of light to slice through the Supremacy and the ships behind it, like some super-duper shape charge.
Without those shields, the impact would have looked more like this. And the damage would have been isolated to the Supremacy. That is if the Supremacy's shields didn't protect it.
harrisonp
Sr Member
These “facts” be they canon or not are ineffectual when discussing what is happening IN the movies. It doesn’t matter what plot point gets tightened up or retconned in a comic, what Wookieepedia says about a topic, because at the end of the day the only thing that has truly defined the majority of the fandom is the movies. I’m not saying this as a Sequel hater, but as someone who can both enjoy these new movies warts and all as well as argue the many issues they do have without resorting to what is by definition “ancillary information” to defend them.
I find it’s much easier to explain a lot of the dumb stuff in the ST by directly contrasting it to all the dumb stuff in the OT. Things were coming off the top of George’s head all the time, but he was THE GUY for so long that we just rolled with it. He and Kasdan pulled off one of the greatest retcons of all time in ESB but that doesn’t mean there aren’t some shaky things in the OT story, we just love our characters enough that we roll past them.
The Sequel trilogy has contrivances like the Holdo Maneuver that some people dislike, but it’s fruitless trying to point at superfan side fiction as an explanation it only adds to their argument. The biggest issue with the “ass pulling” of some of these ST threads is that for many people the characters haven’t endeared themselves to their liking and so they don’t turn that same blind eye like they do for the OT.
this all came out as a rambly rant but my point is that what is on screen will always be the true canon (which is hard for me to admit because it means the Special Editions are the canon version of the OT)
I find it’s much easier to explain a lot of the dumb stuff in the ST by directly contrasting it to all the dumb stuff in the OT. Things were coming off the top of George’s head all the time, but he was THE GUY for so long that we just rolled with it. He and Kasdan pulled off one of the greatest retcons of all time in ESB but that doesn’t mean there aren’t some shaky things in the OT story, we just love our characters enough that we roll past them.
The Sequel trilogy has contrivances like the Holdo Maneuver that some people dislike, but it’s fruitless trying to point at superfan side fiction as an explanation it only adds to their argument. The biggest issue with the “ass pulling” of some of these ST threads is that for many people the characters haven’t endeared themselves to their liking and so they don’t turn that same blind eye like they do for the OT.
this all came out as a rambly rant but my point is that what is on screen will always be the true canon (which is hard for me to admit because it means the Special Editions are the canon version of the OT)
HeartBlade
Sr Member
one thing about the Holdo maneuver that bugs me, when was it invented and why didn’t it revolutionize the First Order/Galactic Empire’s entire battleship strategy?
We know even x-wings have hyperspace travel (Luke used it on his x-wing to get to Dagobah) and we don’t need human pilots (as seen with the Clone Wars in the separatist army). If you have robots that can fly ships, why not create remote drones that can shoot almost as well as human pilots and kamikaze into enemy ships. I’m sure the Empire can develop ships with a certain payload and ship structure to ensure maximum damage on impact.
Maybe that’s why Poe is riding the space horse.
We know even x-wings have hyperspace travel (Luke used it on his x-wing to get to Dagobah) and we don’t need human pilots (as seen with the Clone Wars in the separatist army). If you have robots that can fly ships, why not create remote drones that can shoot almost as well as human pilots and kamikaze into enemy ships. I’m sure the Empire can develop ships with a certain payload and ship structure to ensure maximum damage on impact.
Maybe that’s why Poe is riding the space horse.
Mr Webber
Master Member
You say its not an ancillary explanation yet none of it happened in the films before hand but in a cartoon and you even liked a post by another user further down that basically points out that you're on shaky ground at best if you use ancillary material when discussing events in the films. Like the other 98% of people that see this film, albeit on Blu Ray for mine, my "headcannon" is in the right place.
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cboath
Master Member
No doubt. The shot of all the start destroyers in the teaser...i mean, whichever side they're on, rig 'em all up remotely and kamikaze them and game over.
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