Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (Pre-release)

[The Brahma Bull]

There is no explanation. If you make a movie, get your story on the screen. This scene ruined every space battle. Besides the vsiuals there was nothing good in tlj and IX will be suffering from that or JJ goes in with the attitude "well **** it, it's ruined already, now let's do some crazy ****"." And maybe a "good" movie will be released but with Disney behind it I pretty much doubt that.

 

[Psab keel]

As much as I loved the EU as a teenager even then there was a lot of garbage to be sifted through to get to the good stuff so when I heard that Disney was abandoning it and going with their own stories I was partly relieved because then it opened up the possibilities for the story to go in new directions. Sadly I'm not happy with what they chose to do, but I can understand their logic in not wanting to be beholden to existing material.

I'm still not sure how I feel about them using elements from the EU and working them into the new canon because out of the context of their original stories it feels like it would be off to me. Plus I imagine it could be a bit confusing to anyone first coming into the franchise. It's not necessarily a bad thing and in some sense I like that they want to honor the EU history.

 

[Captain Dunsel]

All this talk about the genius of the “Holdo Maneuver” got me to thinking...

As an experiment, strictly for science, I recreated the “Holdo Manuever” this afternoon.

I donned a purple wig and then silently began laying out all my scale model builds on the kitchen table. I mixed in models I targeted for destruction as well as models that I did not want to destroy as my allies.

Like Holdo, when my wife asked me what madness I was up to, I refused to tell her my plans and resorted only to saying “My plan? I’ll bet you would like to know” and shooting her shady side-eye looks whenever she walked by.

I then picked up one of the biggest models I own, a 350 scale Motion Picture Enterprise, wound up like a major league pitcher, and flung it as hard as I could across the table. The model spun on its axis, striking all the other models as it flew across the table top. It also struck the counters adjacent to the table and destroyed everything that was breakable on that surface as well. The sheer scope of carnage was stupefying. Both designated adversary models and ally models were destroyed.

You know, this was, indeed, a total game-changer. Who would have thought that you could crash one ship into a group of other ships, and destroy them? I’m totally gobsmacked and did not expect this result.

Now, I could recreate this result, at will. Of course I probably won’t due to the amount of labor, time, and money involved. I imagine the “Star Wars” characters would do the same and resort to more conventional means to fight their wars (like laser beams and rockets, which are much easier to quickly create than large capital ships made specifically to be crashed into other ships and also avoids inadvertently destroying your allies in the process), even though they could execute a “Holdo Manuever” whenever their resources allowed them to do so.

Oh yeah, and as a bonus for my experiment, I will also be sleeping alone, tonight. This was also an outcome that I did not expect from my experiment. I recommend that you all not “Holdo Manuever” your relationships.

 

[NeoRutty]

I rewatched TLJ last night... did my usual no pause washroom drink refills during the casino scenes... anything with a kid...

Really it's just a perfect mash of everything I liked about TFA with everything I hate about the prequels...

Still doesn't strike me as bad as people say. Still like all the Luke, Kylo, Rey stuff.

THAT SAID...

The one thing I still can't wrap my head around is the edit where Rose's sister grabs the falling control to release the bombs.

THAT CUT DON'T MAKE NO SENSE.

It drives me crazy.

She's facing up. It falls passed her... she turns and catches it facing perfectly down?

It's such a bad cheat.

 

[Inquisitor Peregrinus]

I'm still not sure how I feel about them using elements from the EU and working them into the new canon because out of the context of their original stories it feels like it would be off to me. Plus I imagine it could be a bit confusing to anyone first coming into the franchise. It's not necessarily a bad thing and in some sense I like that they want to honor the EU history.

It can be done well or badly, like most things. In Marvel's main Star Wars title, in issue... 7, I think it was, a bunch of looted Jedi holocrons are brought to Luke and they all activate at once. Amid the babble, one of them is an exerpt of the Jedi who recorded that particular holocron saying in this one he will be talking about the Hundred Year Darkness. That is a reference to the Second Great Jedi Schism that ultimately led to the founding of the Sith Empire and, ultimately, the Great Sith War and all of the KOTOR stuff. But you don't need ot know that to get that it's a Jedi lore dump you're seeing in that panel. For less-read audience members, it's a throwaway that implies a backstory, a la "Years ago you served my father in the Clone Wars".

One area I feel they dropped the ball, though, is Thrawn in Rebels. In the original telling, the Chimaera was one of the Star Destroyers at the Battle of Endor. Over the coruse of the battle, Pellaeon took command and, seeing the battle was lost for the Empire, withdrew. In the couple years that followed, his insistence on absolute adherence to Imperial Starfleet regulations kept the ship running well and not succumbing to the chaos nibbling away at the Empire. So, when Thrawn came back, he picked that ship to be his flagship. Now it was his ship before he went out to the Unknown Regions, Pellaeon was already its Captain, and -- in a needle-scratch across the record of Imperial uniformity -- the Chimaera has a frikkin' bas-relief chimæra on its ventral surface designed into the hull plating. Also not a fan of his voice (Thrawn, not Pellaeon).

And that's not even getting into areas where the makers of ancillary material -- or even more recent films -- have misinterpreted or misunderstood things from the OT or even the PT.

 

[Psab keel]

It just becomes such a convoluted mess. Lol

 

[PantheraGem]

It just becomes such a convoluted mess. Lol

I read some of this twice and it's just a jumble of words. I'm not very bright, but, still.

 

[tcsmit29]

Actually I'm little apprehensive. JJ isn't known for ending things very strongly. But hopefully I'm wrong.

Don't worry, you'll have plenty of novels and comics to explain things for you. It's the rest of us who will be confused.

 

[Joek3rr]

There is no explanation. If you make a movie, get your story on the screen. This scene ruined every space battle. Besides the vsiuals there was nothing good in tlj and IX will be suffering from that or JJ goes in with the attitude "well **** it, it's ruined already, now let's do some crazy ****"." And maybe a "good" movie will be released but with Disney behind it I pretty much doubt that.

I don't know why it would need an explanation. I mean hyperspace hasn't even got an explanation. You would literally have to pause everything to give a ton of techno mumbo-jumbo, first explaining hyperspace, then why this hyperspace ramming did what it did, and why it just didn't end with the Raddus going *poof*.

 

[HeartBlade]

The jump point for the system, was behind the fleet. The Raddus basically hyperspace jumped through the Supremacy.

Presumably the targets shields would protect it, under normal circumstances.

So we are going with the layman explanation (you don’t go into a separate dimension and thus won’t interact with the fleet).

If that’s the case, fine but then it doesn’t make sense that he Resistance doesn’t create ships for ramming and kamikaze in their future battles.

 

[HeartBlade]

Btw, maybe this should be a separate thread but D&D (writers for GoT) are not doing a Star Wars trilogy. We can probably say RJ’s trilogy is gone as well.

I wonder if it’s more indicative of the status of Star Wars though.

 

[Mr Webber]

That's pretty unique then.

The only reason it was shown, is because Rian wanted to show what that might look like. Particularly since Han mentions you can fly through a star. And the other canon material showed it.

EDIT
Going back and listening to the audio commentary, it sounds like Rian was inspired by the Revenge of the Sith Incredible Cross-sections.
"So this moment, um, here, of what Holdo is about to do. Going through the- blasting through it. This was another very early thing where you know we'd heard about in these movies about, um, if you don't do your calculations correctly you could smash through a planet, while you know trying to do- go through hyperspace and the idea of what would that look like."

How many different ways does it have to be explained to you that what Ruin did undermined everything moving forward and in fact, everything that happened in the past in his selfish desire to show "What it would look like" Maybe he should have set his sights on trying to show us what a Star Wars movie looked like instead.

This from the same man that moved Ren`s scar because it looked "goofy" and admitted to forgetting about filming Jake's robot hand falling to the ground.

 

[Mr Webber]

While that's as good an explanation as any, it's still a plot hole since there's nothing in the film explaining it (would have been easy to add dialogue to that effect). It never bothered me since I like the films so much, plus they're goofy comedies without much dramatic tension in the story. If TLJ was a better story I might just ignore the rediculous ramming thing (like I ignore how silly the space worm is in ESB) but it's really the least of the problems with that movie. IMO

The ramming thing is way down my list of things that bother me about TLJ as well but from finally seeing a real trailer from TROS it's the first of probably many of the carry over problems from that movie that have revealed themselves, to me at least. Does Abrams show the Jake Force Ghost with his robot hand is probably the only thing I`m waiting to see.

 

[Victor3]

I'll happily admit to having many issue with TLJ, but I think the robot hand complaint is unfounded. True, it would have been a neat shot. But, to those that make such an issue of it - why are we not also asking what happened to Obi-Wan's boots? Or all of Yoda's clothes? We've seen 3 Jedi become one with the Force over 8 saga movies. Of those three, everything disappears, except for their overcloaks or Yoda's blanket. It's visually consistent.

 

[Joek3rr]

How many different ways does it have to be explained to you that what Ruin did undermined everything moving forward and in fact, everything that happened in the past in his selfish desire to show "What it would look like" Maybe he should have set his sights on trying to show us what a Star Wars movie looked like instead.

This from the same man that moved Ren`s scar because it looked "goofy" and admitted to forgetting about filming Jake's robot hand falling to the ground.

Only for you. When it's not used in the next film, I know it's because of some one of a kind tech on one of the ships. So I don't expect to be repeated.

 

[Joek3rr]

So we are going with the layman explanation (you don’t go into a separate dimension and thus won’t interact with the fleet).

If that’s the case, fine but then it doesn’t make sense that he Resistance doesn’t create ships for ramming and kamikaze in their future battles.

Hyperspace is some sort of alternate dimension thing. However, you can still "impact" things. "Without precise calculations we could fly right through a star..." A ship is first accelerated to light speed, which then allows the ship to cross over into hyperspace. The Raddus, for instance, hadn't quite reached the speed of light.

But either way, it doesn't make sense, Holdo Maneuver or not. Since it's established in the first film, that it's possible to hit things traveling in hyperspace. But then again Star Wars doesn't make sense.

 

[Joek3rr]

Btw, maybe this should be a separate thread but D&D (writers for GoT) are not doing a Star Wars trilogy. We can probably say RJ’s trilogy is gone as well.

I wonder if it’s more indicative of the status of Star Wars though.

Not really, they just have a deal with Netflix and they don't have the time to do both.

 

[Bigdaddy]

then again Star Wars doesn't make sense.

It does when you stick with the original, adding the PT is when it started getting messy.

 

[The Brahma Bull]

I don't know why it would need an explanation. I mean hyperspace hasn't even got an explanation. You would literally have to pause everything to give a ton of techno mumbo-jumbo, first explaining hyperspace, then why this hyperspace ramming did what it did, and why it just didn't end with the Raddus going *poof*.

I know what you mean. I am a really big enemy of every Star Trek series from TNG to VOY (especially DS9), because of the stupid techno bubble and lot's of boring characters who defined themselfs with that stuff (greetings Mr LaForge).

I don't like that scene in SW because of simple lines out of ANH with jumping into the hyperspace, which implicates you jump into another dimension and when they go from Tattoine to Alderaan. I simply understood the whole concept of hyperspace different and I'm not the only one who has this problem.

But besides the techno stuff, my biggest problem is that the whole "heroic" act of Holdo is a great example of bad writing.

 

[BlandoCalrssian]

I cant help but get the feeling that if it was Ackbar rather than Holdo that made the suicide run the criticism of the tactic wouldnt be nearly as loud.