Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Post-release)

[CT1138]

Oh Lord. Please kill this thread with fire. Whoever brought this back should be made to endure the stench of a thousand piles of steaming bantha poodoo.

Can we just agree to rename this movie and thread "The Least Jedi," and lock it down, mumble depressingly to ourselves one last time at the lost opportunities and character assassination that masqueraded as avant garde expectation subversion and just let...it...die.

I brought it back to point out an interesting detail. It was other people who thought it was the bright idea to interject their hatred of the movie into what had previously been a civil discussion. It's like they're playing punch buggy and can't help themselves. Somebody mentions it in passing and they have no control over themselves to yell, "HATE IT!" That's what starts this bantha poodoo. Nobody can just civilly discuss anything related to this movie. It's always,

Person 1: "Hey look at this detail I didn't notice."

Person 2: "This sucks, you suck, the movie sucks, and **** Ruin Johnson!"

 

[robn1]

Person 1: "Hey look at this detail I didn't notice."

Person 2: "This sucks, you suck, the movie sucks, and **** Ruin Johnson!"

This is a straight up lie. I've never seen ANYONE on this site be told "you suck" for saying they like something. The opposite, however, has happened numerous times.

 

[Spyhunter2k]

I brought it back to point out an interesting detail. It was other people who thought it was the bright idea to interject their hatred of the movie into what had previously been a civil discussion. It's like they're playing punch buggy and can't help themselves. Somebody mentions it in passing and they have no control over themselves to yell, "HATE IT!" That's what starts this bantha poodoo. Nobody can just civilly discuss anything related to this movie. It's always,

Person 1: "Hey look at this detail I didn't notice."

Person 2: "This sucks, you suck, the movie sucks, and **** Ruin Johnson!"

You're right. What was I thinking? How could anyone possibly have known after 293 pages that resurrecting The Least Jedi thread could lead to anything other than warm hugs, general agreement, and civil discussion of opposing viewpoints?

 

[Psab keel]

 

[The Brahma Bull]

This is a straight up lie. I've never seen ANYONE on this site be told "you suck" for saying they like something. The opposite, however, has happened numerous times.

This movie with it's poor directing, plot etc. is a perfect example of todays society. If you didn't like the movie you're called, sexist, racist etc. Just for not liking a movie that get's done nothing right. And even from the studio and this arrogant dumbf**k of a "director" you got called those things just for not liking his stupid movie. And this is the biggest problem on this whole mess. Disney blames their audiences for hating a steaming stinking turd of a movie and not their staff for producing a trainwreck like this.

 

[Joek3rr]

And it fails miserably in how they did it. It was simply just 'done' with very little believable explanation. Just because certain people can go to great lengths to extrapolation a plausible reason, doesn't mean the onscreen execution wasn't remotely enough to get the majority of people on board for it.

If you want to do something like that, you have to take care to craft it so everyone is going to believe what you've given them. There's no debating that the vast majority of people didn't buy into that. The reason why isn't really important. If you're going in that direction, it's your responsibility as director to get people to buy it regardless of pre-conceived notions or nostalgia.

As for your bit about it jiving because luke's greatest fear is losing the one's he cares about - you want us to believe Luke would remotely consider killing his then innocent nephew on a 'maybe', but once HIS actions put his nephew on the course to fullfill that vision and kill everyone and everything he cares about, he just up and says 'f it' and quits on everyone and leaves his loved ones to fend for themselves against a foe that cannot stop on their own? Simply, no. If you want to expound (as a director) and show that relationship sour and a fight take place and Luke then feels horrible for winning or how he won - that's something else. I could totally see Luke doing what he did if he thought he killed Ben. But not when he believes he sent Ben off on his path of destruction.

But enough of this. You beat this like a dead horse. I don't think i've seen you so much minutely shift your opinion on anything, ever. I can admit there are things i like about the ST. I don't have much of any real issue with TFA. i even like some of RJ's ideas in TLJ, i think he just botched the execution frequently. Maybe it does work if RJ doesn't all three and that stuff is laid out from the beginning - we'll never know. I mean, what we got in reference to Luke isn't a whole lot different than if Harrison Ford refused to come back and the opening crawl started with, "After having killed Han Solo in an argument, Luke Skywalker has vanished.". You can't jump from ROTJ to that without a big explanation. A minute or two is far from sufficient to make that act believable to the viewer.

I think I see the problem. The problem isn't Luke in TLJ. The problem is how we view Luke in the OT. And the larger themes of Star Wars. You keep talking about a jump from the end of ROTJ. But I don't see a jump. There is no jump that needs explaining. Luke in TLJ, is natural continuation of "my" OT Luke. A Luke who is very fallible, and repeatedly fails over and over again. The cave on Dagobah, Cloud City, Jabba's palace, and twice on the Death Star. A very human character who reacts on his fear and anger. (Borrowing CT1138's collage)

Reminder, this is what Anakin, Luke's father, did on a 'maybe.' Actions that end up fulfilling his vision.(its like poetry, its supposed to rhyme)

And yeah he just ups and walks away. He blames himself, he's ashamed. He hates himself. He loathes himself. He's become disillusioned with himself. After the incident, there's nothing in his guilt ridden mind that he could possibly do that wouldn't simply make everthing worse. Fear, anger, hate, and suffering. This is the suffering.

“Decide you must how to serve them best. If you leave now, help them you could, but you will destroy all for which they have fought and suffered.”

“If you end your training now, if you choose the quick and easy path as Vader did, you will become an agent of evil,”

 

[Psab keel]

Yup. That's it. We're all viewing Luke from the OT wrong. Got it. Thanks for clarifying my opinion for me.

 

[Joek3rr]

Yup. That's it. We're all viewing Luke from the OT wrong. Got it. Thanks for clarifying my opinion for me.

Never said it was wrong. But it's true we different interpretations.

 

[cboath]

Using Anakin from the PT is just not going. That Anakin was a complete idiot. No sane, hell, remotely sane person goes off an kills a whole bunch of kids (we're talking like 5 year olds), teens, young adults, and adults because someone who might be able to maybe save his wife tells him too. That's a whole other botched storyline.

Again, you don't get to the edge of maybe killing your nephew because your vision says he kills everyone you care about - then set him on that path and leave them to fend for themselves. It's not to say luke doesn't struggle with things in his life, but that would not be one of them. After that, it'd be more important than ever to protect those he cared about from the danger he theoretically just unleashed. And to be blunt, part of the problem is we do not know that Kylo is born BECAUSE of Luke. I'd say it's a 99% likelihood that Snoke with messing with his head early on. Your uncle looking like he's going to kill you in them middle of the night doesn't send you from happy-go-lucky, nice guy jedi, to evil, passive aggressive super villain.

When you do this in a movie it has to have everything thing contained in the movie for audiences to accept what you do. The whole thing is contingent upon looking acting irrationally over a vision he knows isn't necessarily true - for which the audience has zero basis to believe that vision. You want to compare to to Luke going to Bespin to try and HELP his friends. He didn't go to face Darth Vader, or kill him, or anything of the sort. He went to try and help his friends. Period. The only 'history' we have of Luke acting on a vision is of him going to help his friends. Sure, you can try and spin killing your nephew as helping your other friends, but it'd be much easier to prevent him from going evil in other ways. If he's going to make he huge leap from one vision to killing his nephew, there's gotta be a whole lot that takes place prior to that to make it even a remote possibility. We don't see any of it which makes the whole thing pretty unbelievable to the view. It should tell you something that you're the only one who thinks it's believable.

 

[Joek3rr]

Using Anakin from the PT is just not going. That Anakin was a complete idiot. No sane, hell, remotely sane person goes off an kills a whole bunch of kids (we're talking like 5 year olds), teens, young adults, and adults because someone who might be able to maybe save his wife tells him too. That's a whole other botched storyline.

Again, you don't get to the edge of maybe killing your nephew because your vision says he kills everyone you care about - then set him on that path and leave them to fend for themselves. It's not to say luke doesn't struggle with things in his life, but that would not be one of them. After that, it'd be more important than ever to protect those he cared about from the danger he theoretically just unleashed. And to be blunt, part of the problem is we do not know that Kylo is born BECAUSE of Luke. I'd say it's a 99% likelihood that Snoke with messing with his head early on. Your uncle looking like he's going to kill you in them middle of the night doesn't send you from happy-go-lucky, nice guy jedi, to evil, passive aggressive super villain.

When you do this in a movie it has to have everything thing contained in the movie for audiences to accept what you do. The whole thing is contingent upon looking acting irrationally over a vision he knows isn't necessarily true - for which the audience has zero basis to believe that vision. You want to compare to to Luke going to Bespin to try and HELP his friends. He didn't go to face Darth Vader, or kill him, or anything of the sort. He went to try and help his friends. Period. The only 'history' we have of Luke acting on a vision is of him going to help his friends. Sure, you can try and spin killing your nephew as helping your other friends, but it'd be much easier to prevent him from going evil in other ways. If he's going to make he huge leap from one vision to killing his nephew, there's gotta be a whole lot that takes place prior to that to make it even a remote possibility. We don't see any of it which makes the whole thing pretty unbelievable to the view. It should tell you something that you're the only one who thinks it's believable.

I'm using Anakin. Because like it or not, the Prequels are apart of that story. And the Sequels if they did their job right, are going to circle back on those themes from. The Prequels. And the Sequels did that.....

Its not a leap. To go from vision to ignited lightsaber. "Careful you must be when sensing the future, Anakin[insert Luke]. The fear of loss is a path to the dark side."
"Twisted by the dark side young Skywalker has become."

He's going to do whatever it takes to save his friends. Even if that means killing his nephew. That's another reason for his exile. He's decided to let go, of everything. He'd doing what he couldn't do in Empire.

It's clear that you don't think Luke did anything wrong by going to Cloud City. When if fact everything in that movie and following movies screams that him going was a huge failure on his part. He's giving into his fear. If wasn't a big deal. Then why the warnings from his masters?

It's also clear that you think Yoda and Obi-Wan are speaking nonsense, and not wisdom.

Also actions speak louder then words. Luke may have said he was going to "help." His friends. But he didn't. He goes there, and the only thing he does is fight Vader. Heck he even gives chase!

This stuff is painfully obvious. It really baffles me how you miss these interconnecting themes between the 3 trilogies.

 

[Psab keel]

What's baffling is that this thread was necroposted after almost 2 years of inactivity. A thread that has been so contentious that it saw two long time members banned because it got so heated. I'm honestly shocked that the mods haven't locked it up for good.

It's time to just let it die.

 

[HMSwolfe]

 

[Joek3rr]

What's baffling is that this thread was necroposted after almost 2 years of inactivity. A thread that has been so contentious that it saw two long time members banned because it got so heated. I'm honestly shocked that the mods haven't locked it up for good.

It's time to just let it die.

Not everyone hates the movie. Some really love it.

 

[Psab keel]

I'm aware..

 

[cboath]

Fortunately its a very small group.

 

[CT1138]

Anybody remember that old adage, "if you've got nothing nice to say, it's best to say nothing at all?"

Nobody is forcing the people who dislike this movie to respond to this thread. You're all very well free and capable of ignoring the thread and not jumping into it just for the sake of hating on the movie. Let's be honest here. We're all adults perfectly capable of making adult decisions. I necroed, yeah, but I sure as Hell didn't start this BS. We were all having a civil discussion until certain people came in here purposely starting trouble.

 

[Joek3rr]

Anybody remember that old adage, "if you've got nothing nice to say, it's best to say nothing at all?"

Nobody is forcing the people who dislike this movie to respond to this thread. You're all very well free and capable of ignoring the thread and not jumping into it just for the sake of hating on the movie. Let's be honest here. We're all adults perfectly capable of making adult decisions. I necroed, yeah, but I sure as Hell didn't start this BS. We were all having a civil discussion until certain people came in here purposely starting trouble.

I just want to say. I saved your two posts for later reference. I loved your observations.

 

[CT1138]

I just want to say. I saved your two posts for later reference. I loved your observations.

Thank you. I enjoy making them.

 

[Paul Andrew]

I like this movie. It's the sole entry from the sequel trilogy with any vision of its own.
::Cue someone telling me "yeah but it was a TERRIBLE VISION"::

 

[robn1]

Anybody remember that old adage, "if you've got nothing nice to say, it's best to say nothing at all?"

Anybody remember the old adage "Life is a two way street"?

Nobody is forcing the people who dislike this movie to respond to this thread.

Right. As I said it's quite the opposite.

You're all very well free and capable of ignoring the thread and not jumping into it just for the sake of hating on the movie.

Two way street.

We're all adults perfectly capable of making adult decisions.

Some of us are, others get their panties in a wad over different opinions from their own. No one is telling you "likers" to stay out of the thread. Again, quite the opposite. It's not just here but all over the net, and I'm goddamn sick and tired of it.

I sure as Hell didn't start this BS. We were all having a civil discussion until certain people came in here purposely starting trouble.

There was no BS until you made that asinine post last night. Oh that's right, you consider differing opinions BS. Because you don't understand how a two way street works.

And **** Ruin Johnson