Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Post-release)

[seelsa73]

With TLJ that was my experience as well. I liked it coming out until I actually started to digest the movie beyond the explosions and the visuals. Then it started to all break down.

And I get it. I actually can see how people like the movie. It's good if it was it's own stand alone and maybe some other Scifi flick other than SW. But its E8! It does more to try to subvert your expectations than it does to follow the story threads of the previous episode. It does nothing for deepening the SW lore and story. And thats what we want more of right? A deep story. But it's very superficial in that respect. If your going to subvert my expectations do it by turning it around and making the first order the good guys or something, IDK. Dont screw with the plot threads that the previous movie set up. That's why most of us liked E7, that's why it made 2 billion dollars because of those plot threads.

Because of that, E8 left me sad, angry and bitter. I have been like that for a while now but I think that I am actually starting to turn a corner because those emotions are slowly being replaced with laughter. Now, I just laugh at how ridiculous TLJ is and how hilarious it is that they actually put that movie out as part of the 9 part saga.

I wish I was as confident as you are that E9 will turn things around. With all of my heart, I REALLY hope so. If anything I'm hoping that E9 will actually be the sequel to E7 that I have been craving for.

My thoughts exactly. 8 is a completely serviceable, entertaining generic sci-fi movie but a (imho) terrible Star Wars movie for exactly the reasons you say. As for my confidence with ep9, it comes from JJ's directing. Even though it's not my favorite, he did such a great job with TFA, setting things up (despite the fact that most of it was seemingly thrown out for TLJ, but I digress) that I think if anyone can salvage the mess I feel it's become, he can. If in the end two-thirds of the ST is great, I'll be satisfied.

 

[The Terminator]

They should just name Episode IX: "Star Wars Episode VII"
and start from scratch :thumbsup

 

[CutThumb]

Its interesting to see how all this negative feedback for "TLJ" really has effected interest in the franchise.

That TLJ is as disliked by such a large percentage (including me) isn't a surprise. SW invokes such passion from its fandom, many of us having folllowed the franchise for decades now. So, when a story is produced that so directly transgresses so many expectations then the backlash was bound to be strong.Its happened before..

If "The Phantom Menace" had been released at a time when internet speeds were not much quicker than a snails pace (I remember it took 24hrs to download and play the trailer) I think this thread would probably have been three times as long and GL might possibly not have made the next two (which may or may not have been a good thing ) given the feedback from that.

I still hate it most of all for the sheer level of stupidity and resulting actions that many of the key characters took to drive the story forward ,and its the same ,but in many ways even more so for "TLJ". But I digress.

If you contrast this thread with the films in this forum that have been greatly appreciated and got strongly positive poles results , well, things couldn't be so startlingly obvious about the state of the franchise.

Those threads generally fill with one or two posts from individuals praising it ,then pretty much slow to little after the first three weeks of release , then resurge a bit three months later after the digital releases then disappear.People move on to the next, theres nothing much left to discuss or criticize .

What I find most relevant (and Disney and Lucasfilm should be bloody worried about this) is the utter lack of strong interest in the next one.

There have been a ton of rumours , actual photos and other supposed leaks from the set about the film but nobodies posting them or (even worse!) showing one iota of interest in commenting much about them, if at all.

That lack of enthusiasm , certainly compared to the pre-release TLJ thread should really concern D/L. It illustates just how far they have degraded the overall series arc, and how little many of us here seem to care about the existing characters outcome and the future of the story overall.

PS Its been three weeks since anybody posted anything in the Ep IX thread but TLJ keeps trundling on...……...

 

[Halliwax]

Its interesting to see how all this negative feedback for "TLJ" really has effected interest in the franchise.

That TLJ is as disliked by such a large percentage (including me) isn't a surprise. SW invokes such passion from its fandom, many of us having folllowed the franchise for decades now. So, when a story is produced that so directly transgresses so many expectations then the backlash was bound to be strong.Its happened before..

If "The Phantom Menace" had been released at a time when internet speeds were not much quicker than a snails pace (I remember it took 24hrs to download and play the trailer) I think this thread would probably have been three times as long and GL might possibly not have made the next two (which may or may not have been a good thing ) given the feedback from that.

I still hate it most of all for the sheer level of stupidity and resulting actions that many of the key characters took to drive the story forward ,and its the same ,but in many ways even more so for "TLJ". But I digress.

If you contrast this thread with the films in this forum that have been greatly appreciated and got strongly positive poles results , well, things couldn't be so startlingly obvious about the state of the franchise.

Those threads generally fill with one or two posts from individuals praising it ,then pretty much slow to little after the first three weeks of release , then resurge a bit three months later after the digital releases then disappear.People move on to the next, theres nothing much left to discuss or criticize .

What I find most relevant (and Disney and Lucasfilm should be bloody worried about this) is the utter lack of strong interest in the next one.

There have been a ton of rumours , actual photos and other supposed leaks from the set about the film but nobodies posting them or (even worse!) showing one iota of interest in commenting much about them, if at all.

That lack of enthusiasm , certainly compared to the pre-release TLJ thread should really concern D/L. It illustates just how far they have degraded the overall series arc, and how little many of us here seem to care about the existing characters outcome and the future of the story overall.

PS Its been three weeks since anybody posted anything in the Ep IX thread but TLJ keeps trundling on...……...

This is what happened to me, stopped the novels, stopped the comics. Though I’m still subscribed on YouTube to a lot of my Star Wars canon channels, I don’t even have the passion to watch them

BUT to be honest I blame my dislike of ep8 on myself

I over hyped ep8, I was really excited to see where it went. I didn’t watch any spoilers or theories, I went into it rather lost and only what I read in the comics and novels

I finished legends of Luke Skywalker in the parking lot before the movie, and I loved that book

I think I was so over hyped it left me disappointed, I over thought it so much, when nothing I thought was going to happen, didn’t happen.. I was lost

But I will not sit here and write countless posts about how much the movie sucked and my life is over

It’s not worth it to me, and I’ll just move on to the next thing. It certainly won’t be ep9, I don’t care where this story goes

I know look at all Star Wars out side of the OT as a parody film.. canon or not, these new films don’t count for me


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[Psab keel]

I didn't read spoilers for any of the sequel films though since TLJ I have read a few "leaked" details about Episode 9 (who knows if they are going to be true) and if they are then the conclusion to the Skywalker Saga is going to be a mess.

The Prequels were polarizing but the brand has NEVER seen anything like this before. I agree that 8 was a turning point in the series and for the fandom as a whole. After the backlash of the Prequels I never thought I would see it get this bad, but at least those films had an overarching plot to them. With 7 I think most fans (not all of course) felt like Disney was righting the ship and that we would see a return to the action packed upbeat tone of the OT. Then it all came crashing down. Even fans of TLJ have to admit that 8 was the most divisive in the franchise's history. I think we can all agree on that point.

I hate the fact that this thread has gone on this long and I hate that the debate has raged for almost a year now. Sadly I don't think it will end any time soon either. As you have suggested too, the lack of interest and outright apathy towards the direction of future stories is extremely telling. So much so that even interest for the other films and TV series and such is nowhere near the level of interest that it really should be. In years past fans would pour over every leaked image and speculate what it meant for the story. No longer. That's not to say that there aren't some fans out there who are genuinely excited, it's just that it's not at all what it used to be.

I personally don't care anymore what they do with it and after a lifetime of loving Star Wars, that is sad indeed.

 

[Greenie]

Nitz146 and seelsa73. I commend your diplomacy but seriously guys TLJ is a poorly constructed movie, flawed in all aspects of cohesive storytelling. It was created to stroke someone’s ego and not to entertain or enthrall an audience but to troll them.
halliwax. Don’t blame yourself. The hype was a direct result of TFA.
At this point, I’ve lost interest in SW. so much that I’m losing my inspiration to build Sabers and I’m only here coz I sometimes slow down to look at car crashes.

It’s worth noting, this time four years ago we were all salivating for ep7 and the first trailer dropped in early November. The ep9 thread is inactive!

 

[Halliwax]

@Nitz146 and @seelsa73. I commend your diplomacy but seriously guys TLJ is a poorly constructed movie, flawed in all aspects of cohesive storytelling. It was created to stroke someone’s ego and not to entertain or enthrall an audience but to troll them.
@halliwax. Don’t blame yourself. The hype was a direct result of TFA.
At this point, I’ve lost interest in SW. so much that I’m losing my inspiration to build Sabers and I’m only here coz I sometimes slow down to look at car crashes.

It’s worth noting, this time four years ago we were all salivating for ep7 and the first trailer dropped in early November. The ep9 thread is inactive!

This is what’s upsetting, hearing that you lost interest in prop building...

That’s why I say screw it, forget this new Disney Wars, stick with the old school stuff


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[The Terminator]

The OT has since the initial release infected pop culture on every level basically.
The Prequels, while not as loved as the OT still had a big impact.
TLJ made the polarization the prequels 'created'(if you will), look like nothing. The uproar against George Lucas after giving us Jar-Jar Binks is rather small compared to the negativity surrounding TLJ.

The people who liked/loved TLJ will continue to do so. The people who hated/disliked TLJ, will do the same... life goes on.
It's just a movie after all.
(and not even that can they get 'right')

 

[Joek3rr]

I recently went through all 8 films. And there were a couple of things that jumped out at me from TFA and TLJ.

At first I felt like many of you, that TLJ didn't pick up the mystery boxes started by TFA. Aside from the Knights of Ren, TLJ run plays off of everything TFA set up. It's maybe not what people were expecting. But it does have pay offs.

Secondly, I was stunned at how blatantly obvious Luke's character was set up in TFA. I felt really stupid for not seeing that lightsaber toss coming, or anything that Luke did. Anyone, including myself, that thought Luke was going to come back as an older version of his ROTJ self. Wasn't paying attention to TFA.

Finally, this last month I've gone from liking to loving TLJ. What happened to change my thinking? I came across a YouTube channel called the Wayward Jedi. I implore everyone to check it out. The Wayward Jedi looks at Star Wars through the lens of the great myths, legends, and fairy-tales from history, and the works of Joseph Campbell. His videos are very very insightful.

Prior to watching this video. I wasn't excited for episode 9. And I hated the idea of "Reylo". And I mean hated it. But this video swayed me into not only liking but wanting "Reylo" to happen. But as also gotten me very excited for episode 9! Please guys, give it a watch!

 

[seelsa73]

I love Star Wars and I'll always love Star Wars. One crap movie isn't going to change that for me. I love RO and like Solo a lot. Rebels as a whole was great and I'm really liking Resistance so far. Novels are more miss than hit for me (where TF is the Force?!?!) and I've fallen off the comics (albeit for monetary reasons more so than quality). And even though I thought TLJ was a crap saga film*, it was entertaining enough as a sci-fi flick that I'm actually interested to see RJ's standalone trilogy.

*I actually think it would have been a fine addition to the franchise were it a standalone and they were telling the story of how the Jedi got started in the first place. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Halliwax]

I recently went through all 8 films. And there were a couple of things that jumped out at me from TFA and TLJ.

At first I felt like many of you, that TLJ didn't pick up the mystery boxes started by TFA. Aside from the Knights of Ren, TLJ run plays off of everything TFA set up. It's maybe not what people were expecting. But it does have pay offs.

Now I feel the exact opposite, I don’t feel like TLJ played off of any of the mystery boxes setup from TFA

Instead I think it was lazy and cheated writing. TFA set up

Who’s snoke?
Who’s Rey’s parents? / who’s the girl?
Who dropped of Rey on jakku?
Where did the graflex come from?!

There’s plenty more but this is just a example

TLJ instead of creating something with these new scenarios and characters they

Who’s snoke? Don’t know kill him, then we won’t have to deal with it

Who’s Rey’s parents? Oh drunks! They are dead now, and we don’t have to explain how she got on jakku! Excellent!

The graflex? The lightsaber of Luke’s father? Luke’s been collecting Jedi relics over the past 30 years, he’d should be excited to see his old fathers weapon again... wait a minute naaaaaahh throw it off a cliff, and if still works after throwing it off the cliff just blow it up or something

Btw, lets take that super nazi general Hux and turn him into a bumbling idiot, the kids will love a your momma joke, throw that in there too

Ok my rants over lol, but I felt ripped off that everything setup in TFA was cheaply never answered...

Again like the terminator said it’s only a movie. It took me very long to except it, I was going through a very hard time in my life, and I used Star Wars to escape.

The comics, the books all gave me something to look forward to and keep my mind straight..

Then we got delivered this crap... I came on here right away to see if others felt the same way and it’s been total chaos..

And it’s still going!! Like I said I never posted my feelings until a few months ago, just because I don’t care about the story anymore.. don’t care at all. Life goes on.. props go on, the Sequel trilogy doesn’t count in my eyes. Over done, move onto the next project

Blah

 

[Joek3rr]

Now I feel the exact opposite, I don’t feel like TLJ played off of any of the mystery boxes setup from TFA

Instead I think it was lazy and cheated writing. TFA set up

Who’s snoke?
Who’s Rey’s parents? / who’s the girl?
Who dropped of Rey on jakku?
Where did the graflex come from?!

There’s plenty more but this is just a example

TLJ instead of creating something with these new scenarios and characters they

Who’s snoke? Don’t know kill him, then we won’t have to deal with it

Who’s Rey’s parents? Oh drunks! They are dead now, and we don’t have to explain how she got on jakku! Excellent!

The graflex? The lightsaber of Luke’s father? Luke’s been collecting Jedi relics over the past 30 years, he’d should be excited to see his old fathers weapon again... wait a minute naaaaaahh throw it off a cliff, and if still works after throwing it off the cliff just blow it up or something

Btw, lets take that super nazi general Hux and turn him into a bumbling idiot, the kids will love a your momma joke, throw that in there too

Ok my rants over lol, but I felt ripped off that everything setup in TFA was cheaply never answered...

Again like the terminator said it’s only a movie. It took me very long to except it, I was going through a very hard time in my life, and I used Star Wars to escape.

The comics, the books all gave me something to look forward to and keep my mind straight..

Then we got delivered this crap... I came on here right away to see if others felt the same way and it’s been total chaos..

And it’s still going!! Like I said I never posted my feelings until a few months ago, just because I don’t care about the story anymore.. don’t care at all. Life goes on.. props go on, the Sequel trilogy doesn’t count in my eyes. Over done, move onto the next project

Blah

And see, I loved the unexpected.

Who's Snoke? He's the Flash Gordon/ Buck Rogers-esque bad guy Emperor. I think we've been spoiled by superhero films as of late. We see what makes the villian tick. We get flash backs galore. But Snoke is your classic villian. He's the bad guy because the story needs a puppet master baddie.

And the twist of Rey's parents, was amazing. It's not where you come from, or who you come from. It's what you do now that defines you. Reminds me of what Qui-Gon told Anakin. "Remember, your focus determines your reality."

And Hux being a nazi-esque pompous idiot. Watch some of Hitler's and Mussolini's speeches. The posturing, the flailing of the arms, it's ridiculous, it would be down right hilarious if we didn't know how many people they were responsible for killing.

The Graflex, as Maz said, that's a story for another time.

Oh and I loved when Luke tossed the saber. It reminds me of this

Start at 3:25

On a side note. Have you been following the Darth Vader comic? Holy smokes! Is it good!

 

[MrSouthpaw]

And see, I loved the unexpected.

Who's Snoke? He's the Flash Gordon/ Buck Rogers-esque bad guy Emperor. I think we've been spoiled by superhero films as of late. We see what makes the villian tick. We get flash backs galore. But Snoke is your classic villian. He's the bad guy because the story needs a puppet master baddie.

And the twist of Rey's parents, was amazing. It's not where you come from, or who you come from. It's what you do now that defines you. Reminds me of what Qui-Gon told Anakin. "Remember, your focus determines your reality."

And Hux being a nazi-esque pompous idiot. Watch some of Hitler's and Mussolini's speeches. The posturing, the flailing of the arms, it's ridiculous, it would be down right hilarious if we didn't know how many people they were responsible for killing.

The Graflex, as Maz said, that's a story for another time.

Oh and I loved when Luke tossed the saber. It reminds me of this
https://youtu.be/ajpE9aultU4
Start at 3:25

On a side note. Have you been following the Darth Vader comic? Holy smokes! Is it good!

There is a difference between the unexpected and subverting an expectation. TLJ does the latter far too much.

People like to say that the Emperor had no backstory in the OT. But Tarkin at least gave the line about how the Emperor had dissolved the senate and took total control. If you understand what that means, you at least know how he became the Emperor. We don't even have that much about Snoke. How did he assumed control or took power? Dunno. Now he's just a cut up corpse. They could literally just say it in a paragraph, but I guess there was no time in the longest SW movie ever.

The revelation that Rey's parents were "nothing/died in the desert" was one of those subverted expectations RJ likes so much. In Rey's vision we saw a little girl look up at a ship leaving the planet and begging them not to leave and heard Kenobi's voice of all people calling out to Rey by name. It's not amazing to set up so much then leave it at nothing. It's cheap. The only recovery is that Kylo was lying to turn her to the darkside and the vision really did mean something.

I've said it before, but it bears repeating. It is entirely inappropriate to include the bad guys as the butt of jokes in SW. It diminishes the aura of evil and turns them into fools. By making them fools, RJ turned SW into Spaceballs and ended up making SW a parody of itself. This is probably the worst mistake in how this movie was made.

Luke throwing the Graflex over his shoulder was ridiculous. He hot potato'd it. If they really needed him to reject it they should have simply had him lower his arm and let it slip from his grasp. Making the good guys overtly comedic at times was another big mistake.

 

[PantheraGem]

We stand better chances of summiting Everest in tank tops and flip flops than changing each other's minds.

 

[SawbonesAdmiral]

We stand better chances of summiting Everest in tank tops and flip flops than changing each other's minds.

Nothing more encapsulates science fiction fandoms than unwavering stubbornness.

 

[Joek3rr]

There is a difference between the unexpected and subverting an expectation. TLJ does the latter far too much.

People like to say that the Emperor had no backstory in the OT. But Tarkin at least gave the line about how the Emperor had dissolved the senate and took total control. If you understand what that means, you at least know how he became the Emperor. We don't even have that much about Snoke. How did he assumed control or took power? Dunno. Now he's just a cut up corpse. They could literally just say it in a paragraph, but I guess there was no time in the longest SW movie ever.

The revelation that Rey's parents were "nothing/died in the desert" was one of those subverted expectations RJ likes so much. In Rey's vision we saw a little girl look up at a ship leaving the planet and begging them not to leave and heard Kenobi's voice of all people calling out to Rey by name. It's not amazing to set up so much then leave it at nothing. It's cheap. The only recovery is that Kylo was lying to turn her to the darkside and the vision really did mean something.

I've said it before, but it bears repeating. It is entirely inappropriate to include the bad guys as the butt of jokes in SW. It diminishes the aura of evil and turns them into fools. By making them fools, RJ turned SW into Spaceballs and ended up making SW a parody of itself. This is probably the worst mistake in how this movie was made.

Luke throwing the Graflex over his shoulder was ridiculous. He hot potato'd it. If they really needed him to reject it they should have simply had him lower his arm and let it slip from his grasp. Making the good guys overtly comedic at times was another big mistake.

That line of Tarkin's has nothing to do with the Emperor taking over. He had just dissolved the Senate. But he'd become the Emperor 20 years prior........so yeah....still no backstory for him.

TFA tells us that Rey's parents left her. And with Unkar Plutt! What kind of demented parents leaves their kids with a fat slime ball of a junk dealer on a backwater planet? Not Luke Skywalker, and Obi-Wan fathering an illegitimate child? No thank you!

Hux is acting just like Hitler or Mussolini. With the overdone dramatics. Particularly like Mussolini, that guy was so pompous and over the top.

You didn't watch my video did you?

 

[PantheraGem]

I've watched plenty of Wayward Jedi's videos. While edited well, it's done nothing to change my feelings on TFA or TLJ. That's what I mean. No minds will be changed here.

 

[Psab keel]

Which is why threads like this need to die. No one on either side is going to change their mind. So there really is no point in arguing about this stupid movie anymore.

 

[Nitz146]

Which is why threads like this need to die. No one on either side is going to change their mind. So there really is no point in arguing about this stupid movie anymore.

As annoying as this thread might seem I actually enjoy reading what people have to say. Not so much for trying to change someone's mind but for connecting to others who have the same feelings about this movie and the current state of SW as I do. It feels good to know that I'm not alone in my disappointment, especially when were being told that were just a very small vocal minority.

 

[MrSouthpaw]

That line of Tarkin's has nothing to do with the Emperor taking over. He had just dissolved the Senate. But he'd become the Emperor 20 years prior........so yeah....still no backstory for him.

TFA tells us that Rey's parents left her. And with Unkar Plutt! What kind of demented parents leaves their kids with a fat slime ball of a junk dealer on a backwater planet? Not Luke Skywalker, and Obi-Wan fathering an illegitimate child? No thank you!

Hux is acting just like Hitler or Mussolini. With the overdone dramatics. Particularly like Mussolini, that guy was so pompous and over the top.

You didn't watch my video did you?

Tarkin directly refers to the Emperor and says he dissolved the Imperial Senate and took total control. This is factually way more than we know about how Snoke became a Supreme leader. A little backstory is still backstory.

Why is Unkar Plutt a bad person? He raised Rey and how did she turn out? Strong, independent, technologically educated and with a good moral center. Is it because he makes her work for her food? Adults who work in their parents businesses typically have to work to get paid. Is it because he wanted to get BB-8 and turn it over to the First Order? Maybe he was trying to save Rey from getting tangled up with them.

It's pretty clear she's not a Skywalker, that family tree is well known. Doesn't have to be OWK's child to be a Kenobi, his family tree is virtually unknown.

Hux was acting like a dictator in TFA. In TLJ he is the butt of many jokes and involved in much physical comedy. Your personal opinion on how historical dictators acted is just that, your opinion. The objective reality is that they were able to convince large populations of people to do their will, and it wasn't because those people thought they made funny speeches.

Your video and the Luke scene are not comparable except that both are SW and someone threw a cylindrical object. The tone and import of both scenes are different, as is the perception of how and why the objects were thrown. SW can have comedic moments, the problem is how they are executed and who they involve, as I explained in my prior post.