Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Post-release)
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JD
Master Member
JD
Master Member
Do we know how much time passed from Maz to Starkiller to Rey leaving? It's not like Star Wars has never taken liberties with timelines (ESB - and see my post above for the relatively course about how Luke and Leia aren't the same age).
Toadmeister
Sr Member
I think anyone that thinks that Rose & Finn's mission in Canto Bight was pointless, is again, narrowmindedly missing the overall point in this film.
Did the mission fail?
Yes
Was the mission, in the end, unnecessary?
Absolutely
So what was the point?
As in a lot of films, we see a physical act that visualises something more symbolic. When Rose frees the animal, she says that even though they failed, it was worth it, because they had brought a small amount of freedom to an animal. It'll probably be recaptured, but for now, it's free.
Simple enough, but what else did they accomplish? They showed a small group of slave children that there was hope left, by revealing that, like in the past, there's a rebellion brewing. One of those kids just so happens to be force sensitive, & he knows it.
They've planted the seed.
Now, Skywalker has decided that his legend can do more than he could ever physically do- it can inspire, it can grow, IT can live forever. He embraces that, & soon after, that legend has spread to Canto Bight.
The seed has now been fed & watered.
Give it time to grow.
Also, here's the further proof that the Force is doing it's own thing now. Luke, Leia, & Anakin, as far as we know, possibly some of the strongest with the Force, all grew up without knowing what was inside of them, until a Jedi came along & introduced them to the existence of the Force. They may have shown some uncanny abilities that were Force-Fueled, but there was no conscious use of the Force. This kid knows it, & I'd dare say we can assume the Force has revealed ITSELF.
To me, one of the most exciting aspects of where we're going.
Did the mission fail?
Yes
Was the mission, in the end, unnecessary?
Absolutely
So what was the point?
As in a lot of films, we see a physical act that visualises something more symbolic. When Rose frees the animal, she says that even though they failed, it was worth it, because they had brought a small amount of freedom to an animal. It'll probably be recaptured, but for now, it's free.
Simple enough, but what else did they accomplish? They showed a small group of slave children that there was hope left, by revealing that, like in the past, there's a rebellion brewing. One of those kids just so happens to be force sensitive, & he knows it.
They've planted the seed.
Now, Skywalker has decided that his legend can do more than he could ever physically do- it can inspire, it can grow, IT can live forever. He embraces that, & soon after, that legend has spread to Canto Bight.
The seed has now been fed & watered.
Give it time to grow.
Also, here's the further proof that the Force is doing it's own thing now. Luke, Leia, & Anakin, as far as we know, possibly some of the strongest with the Force, all grew up without knowing what was inside of them, until a Jedi came along & introduced them to the existence of the Force. They may have shown some uncanny abilities that were Force-Fueled, but there was no conscious use of the Force. This kid knows it, & I'd dare say we can assume the Force has revealed ITSELF.
To me, one of the most exciting aspects of where we're going.
jhazard
Sr Member
I just don't see hot-headedness in Poe's character in TFA, or why his character was "needed" to learn any lesson - this was a manufactured behavior for a sub plot, that imo didn't really add to anything. I suppose it could be considered character development, but that doesn't feel right with how this movie went down. No problem seeing Poe with a larger command role. Both Han AND Lando were both Generals (a scoundrel and his buddy, not even "military"). Their advancement was smoothly handled off-screen, and it was accepted pretty easily.
I get WHAT Rian/Disney did. I don't agree with why or how they did it, imo it was necessary and wasted time that could have been used to bolster something more interesting.
As for Finn - I get the selfish behavior in TFA, hence the "now" part of my statement about him, but I see your point about him in general - he woke up and immediately was in the same mode. Point taken. I could believe Rose "teaching him a lesson" more if she hadn't kissed him - that made it more personal (and selfish) than altruistic and thinking of the larger picture.
Lol, I'll split the diff on Rey's parents. Call to adventure, for sure. But they are used as bait about her identity, a question raised several times in the film; the audience is led to wonder about that, it's not just a random detail.
Maybe JJ will mark a second surge in his career with an ANSWER BOX for episode IX
, and do Rian like Rian did him.
astroboy
Master Member
Yes, ESB does have that one big contrivance.
If there is a time gap, it is from the moment they return from starkiller base, to the moment Rey and chewie take off to find luke.
But unless they needed some serious time to pack, I would assume that would be pronto.
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Zuiun
Sr Member
Meant to comment on this and it slipped by...
I agree that he knew exactly what would happen, and here's why: Luke went to that island to die. He believed that the Jedi Order needed to die and, being the last known Jedi, if he died the Order would die with him, ending the cycle of the Jedi/Sith.
Luke also had cut himself off from the Force, meaning that he knew when he died, he was going to LITERALLY die.
Finally, keep in mind that at the end of Revenge of the Sith, we are clearly told that becoming One with the Force was something that doesn't just happen. It was something that had to be learned.
So not only did Luke project himself to Crait to give a spark of hope to the Resistance, but also was effectively renouncing his belief that the Jedi should end he surrendered himself to the Force so that he could still influence the Order as needed.
Toadmeister
Sr Member
I do get that, your explanation is a good one.
But a bunch of younglings saw a few animals set free and run amock. Rose flashed her secret decoder ring. That will inspire them to lead a future Rebellion?
All that seemed rather Disney to me and not Star Wars. The power of the Mouse must be stronger...
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Zuiun
Sr Member
Here's the thing: What, exactly, would be the satisfactory answer about Rey's parents? It's not like Star Wars has a large box to pull from in terms of potential candidates, and every single established character comes with its own set of story problems and fan animosity if they wind up being related to Rey. Similarly, if her parents are *somebody,* just not somebody we've met before, that also creates a host of story problems, because now they need to be introduced and explained.
No matter which way it goes, it becomes a problem of wasting story time on backstory, and the Star Wars films have *never* been about wasting time on backstory -- at least not in the middle of whatever the present film is. (Yeah, yeah, the Prequels are essentially nothing but backstory, but the point is that within the films, very little time is wasted on history, unless it's in direct service of moving the plot forward - e.g., Palpatine telling Anakin about Plagueis was solely to get Anakin to believe that Palpatine was the only one who could train him, NOT about filling in details.)
Honestly, I don't really think JJ Abrams intended Rey's parents to be a thing. I think his flaw was in underestimating how much the fans would obsess over wanting to know who they are.
But like I said, they really can't be anybody without causing major story problems. So we got the best possible answer: they are nobody.
Not necessarily that simple. They saw that something confined, tortured, & used, can be powerful when unleashed. They couldn't be stopped. It's not something that'll pay off immediately in their lives, or even in the films, but when the time is right, it can inspire. Now add to that, there's a possible 'Jedi' in their midst. One that's being fed on the legend of what one man can do when he chooses to stand against a larger force for the good of his friends & the galaxy at large.
That was the point of it all, IMO.
astroboy
Master Member
Absolutely. There are other motives beside progressing the plot.
But in addition to your suggestions, I will add "enabling the plot to lead to a confrontation between Finn and phasma"
So there are a few narrative reasons for that side quest. I can accept that.(Personally, I think freeing the animals was not a point that needed to be made. It brought their desperate mission down to a snail's pace)
So...that begs the question, is there another plot that can tell the story better? In a way that doesn't suck?
Here is my proposal for a better way to tell that story.
During the first attack on the Raddus, Finn (who is still injured) is trapped in sick bay with a young med named rose. It's just the two of them and a patient that she is trying to keep alive. Their story is nothing more than a conversation. During the arc, she loses the other patient but helps Finn recuperate. She can even tell him all about the injustice she has gone through
Maybe he's just benched for this movie. Just developing character. He really needs it. Also, it was pretty stupid that he recovered in a second.
As for the other elements,
Forget the PETA message. As much as I appreciate human and animal rights, it was misplaced and off-putting. (Shouldn't we be concerned about Droid rights?)
Finn can encounter phasma in the third film. But we do need more phasma. Just have her on the bridge commanding a bit. It would be enough.
And lastly, the stuff with this kids.....
So, after we heard rose tell her life story, where she started off as a a slave stable girl, we have a good idea sense of her world.
Instead of connecting the kids to the plot, we simply tag them on to the end. After it all, we have a scene of a group of stable kids talking about the hero, luke Skywalker. Afterward, one of them goes outside and force pulls a mop to him. We see the rebel ring and the camera pans up at the stars.
I actually that part works better. It shows us that you can kill the Jedi, but the force grows like a weed. You can't stop it. And it connects this with Rey, who's a nobody
Same story, different plot. It may not be perfect, but it doesn't destroy the film. And I just shaved 20 minutes off this turd.
While i'm here, I want to blame JJ for something. Because he chose to (kind of) remake ANH, he missed out on the most important part of that film...the death star rescue. That scene setup everything we needed to know about the three humans and why they're friends. It was a trial they went through together and while they don't always agree, they are loyal.
J.J. missed that, and at this point we have a trilogy where two of the main protagonists just met each other at the end of the third film. This is A HUGE problem, and it's one of the main reasons that they don't have anything for Finn to do.
Seriously. Since jakku, that guy has been pointless. His sanitation career has been his only asset. (Twice)
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Toadmeister
Sr Member
I agree actually, you articulate it better than I can.
Admittedly, I found the Casino planet a real drag on the pacing of the movie, so I interpret it somewhat pessimisticly as a result. Rose as a character didn't work for me either even though she had a role to play.
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JD
Master Member
I'd guess they moved quickly, but still there was enough time for Maz to get herself into trouble.
I'm not fond of Maz and could've done without the callback.
gedmac66
Sr Member
This is another thing I find confusing . If Luke had cut himself off from everyone and everything , in order to ‘ die ‘ - why was he shown knowing how to fish and milk ( that particular creature ) for sustenance ? Also by cutting himself off from the Force , did he have to sacrifice himself at a stage when there’re more resistance/rebellious fighters dead than alive ( that we’re shown ) - only to become one with it at the end , and becoming a beacon of hope yet again ? Makes his character out to be incompetent and indecisive . Thanks RJ .
Moreorless37
Active Member
Just looked up those bombers on wookieepedia, and omg, Starfortress SF-17, Em-1919 blaster machineguns in the turrets. I mean all they need is a "Norton Industries targeting computer" and you got a full fledged space B-17 :lol (for the record, I do know it wasnt 1919s in actual B17 turrets ) I love it lol
) I love it lol
Zuiun
Sr Member
I didn't take it as him going there to die *immediately* -- as in, he wasn't there to commit suicide. He basically retired himself from the galaxy. Live out his days, as it were.
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