astroboy
Master Member
I'd also like to point out that this movie takes place what, two days after TFA? So maz is in the middle of some union dispute the day after her castle collapsed?
God I hate everything
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Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Post-release)
- Thread starter dbuck
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God I hate everything
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sztriki
Sr Member
That’s true, although they didn’t have a hyperdrive there but point taken, they did mention it. Luke’s X-wing bothered me more, he was just flying around in a fighter plane from Hoth to Dagobah then Bespin, how big was the tank of that thing...but again apart from what you mentioned there was never any other mention of fuel so I was like okay it’s not an issue until it’s a plot device.
Solo4114
Master Member
Sorry, I may not have been clear. I think they could have established a sense of paranoia about "How are they tracking us?! Is someone feeding them information? Is there a traitor?!" better, which would then explain why Holdo wouldn't tell anyone the plans. I think this was hinted at sort of, but I don't recall it being addressed. I did get up to go to the bathroom at one point, so it's possible I missed that part if they did address it explicitly.
I rewatched TFA the night before I went to see TLJ, and it seems to me like Rey's abilities and parentage -- as a big question mark -- were set up that way on purpose. We don't see her parents in person -- just their ship leaving. We see Rey screaming for them to come back. Maz asks "Who is she?" and just as Han is about to tell her his thoughts, they're interrupted. There's a bunch of stuff that just raises the question of "Who is she? Why is she this way?"
It's also central to her character that she questions her own origin, and it's one of the reasons she goes to Luke in the first place: she wants him to provide her with answers. That's part of her character arc in this film, where she ultimately determines that she doesn't need answers from Luke; she'll find them herself, and then comes to realize that the answers are ultimately beside the point: she is who she is, her past does not determine her future, and it's instead her choices that ultimately shape her future. As a result, she lets go of the questions and the sense of doubt she has, and is much more certain in herself going forward.
To be fair, Star Wars has never bothered with Newtonian physics in space. It's a lot more like aerial dogfighting and big naval ships.
On this one point, I have to disagree (re: the music). Well, not disagree. The music felt like John Williams, but as with the PT, I just haven't "bonded" with the music. It's not so ingrained in my brain that whenever I hear a piece, I instantly know what part of the movie it shows up in. some of that may be because I haven't watched these movies over and over and over again, and some may be because I don't own the soundtracks, but the music has felt far more like "background music" rather than a character unto itself the way it seemed to in Williams' older scores.
I LOVED that part, although I've seen a lot of people complain about it. "Why are they flying so close? That's such a dumb formation!" Pick up a history book, people. Flying fortresses flew in tight formations like that to provide overlapping gun coverage from their multiple turret and side- and tail-gun positions. That sequence was basically "The Mighty Eighth Goes to Space."
Yeah, fuel and travel speed have always been treated in these films "as the plot demands." Luke can fly all over the back end of space in his fighter, but Han has to worry about how far it is to Bespin. The Rebel fleet can mass and then jump to attack the Death Star, but the Resistance flagship is going to run out of gas in 18 hours, which, coincidentally, is the exact amount of time it'll take Rey to get trained in 3 days (wait, what?) and for Finn and Rose to travel to another planet, meet a dude who can slice stuff, come back, fly to the Star Destroyer and shut it down. Or something.
Putting in the 18 hour "ticking clock" notion was, I think, a mistake, but the films have never been good about this and marking the passage of time.
JD
Master Member
I think they did address it with "hyperspace tracking."
sztriki
Sr Member
Yea, sod it all, let’s become Trekkies...:-D
Solo4114
Master Member
Yeah, that's my recollection, too. I'm saying I think they could have played up the issue of how a hyperspace tracker got on board in the first place, and what that may mean with respect to there possibly being a traitor on the ship. (Plus, from reading online, this is apparently a new technology that was in the works during the Rogue One era, and which -- so it seems -- doesn't require a tracker beacon to be on the target ship.) Still, I think they could've said "We think it's a hyperspace tracker, but we don't know for sure and can't be too careful." That or "Captain Dameron, I expect you to follow my orders -- without question. Is that clear?"
Whoa, whoa, whoa. Whatever disagreements we may have about the film, let's not go that far.
(Plus, my preferred Newtonian physics in space has always been Babylon 5...)
glunark
Sr Member
When an engine is on constantly the ship will be accelerating, if all the ships are accelerating at the same rate, they will appear static to each other.
When the fuel runs out, the ship will still be moving at its last speed, but they will stop accelerating, to the ships that still are, it will appear to be slowing down.
Its all relative.
When the fuel runs out, the ship will still be moving at its last speed, but they will stop accelerating, to the ships that still are, it will appear to be slowing down.
Its all relative.
Zuiun
Sr Member
Being the leader of a squadron of other fighter pilots doesn't inherently make him less hot-headed and impulsive. The difference between TFA and TLJ is that this time his tendency toward "heroics first, consequences later" actually backfired.
The lesson he needed to learn was to temper his natural talents with better military strategy and a bigger picture view.
In other words, TLJ is setting Poe up to be MORE than just a squadron leader.
Finn wanting to go rescue Rey and getting injured in the process in TFA was absolutely selfish in the sense that he wasn't on the Starkiller base mission for the Resistance. He was on the mission for himself and Rey.
That's exactly the same reason he was trying to escape in TLJ. His plan was to go find Rey and take her away from all of the conflict (presumably completely against whatever Rey wanted to do),
Finn wanting to keep saving Rey is not being selfless if his motivation is less about Rey's needs and more about his own.
Sure, some of saving Finn was not wanting to see him die. But Rose *also* realized that Finn sacrificing himself in this moment would not have mattered. The Resistance was down to just a handful of people. Either they were all going to die in this moment, or if they didn't, then they needed to save every person they could -- especially someone regarded as a Hero of the Resistance.
It's not that her parents were unimportant. It's that their importance is misplaced. As I said in a previous post, they served the exact same purpose Aunt Beru and Uncle Owen served: To give Rey an excuse to refuse the Call to Adventure, just as Luke had a reason to refuse to go with Ben Kenobi.
Showing her marking the time on the wall tells us that, yes, she is invested in their return (similar to Uncle Owen telling Luke he still needs him on the farm invests Luke in staying put). This makes her refusal to answer the call legitimate. If she had no reason to stay on Jakku, then her story arc couldn't follow the Hero's Journey.
There definitely was, and I assumed it continued after I left, but part of why I left is because both sides were very standoffish and insulting. I wasn't there to bash the movie, I liked it overall, but I did think there were areas of weakness and every time I tried to get into a discussion about them it just got bombarded with name calling on both sides. Ultimately I remember just giving up. Some people just never learned that different opinions are a thing.
I didn't have a problem with that moment, but I do have a problem with the X number of years that followed. For all we know Luke is the most successful Dark side turner of all time, who risked his life and even the fate of the entire galaxy to try to save Vader after sensing a tiny bit of conflict in him. Meanwhile Kylo has so much conflict that it's obvious to everyone including a total stranger, AND it's partly Luke's fault, yet Luke never bothers to even try. That's an awfully big change from the guy who was willing to risk the fate of the galaxy on a slight chance to save one man.
JD
Master Member
I don't think a hyperspace tracker is something that got onboard the Resistance ship but was new tech that the FO now had.
I agree there wasn't enough exposition or talk about the hyperspace tracker. There could've been another few lines just to make it more clear.
Solo4114
Master Member
I mean, looking at the situation, going to Ben after (from Ben's perspective) trying to straight up murder him in his sleep...would you expect him to be a receptive audience when you say "I feel conflict in you! You're good! Come be good with me!"
First, Ben has every reason to call Luke a hypocrite (again, from his perspective). How can Luke credibly say "Come be good with me!" when "good" Luke tried to murder a sleeping boy? Second, why should Ben trust Luke? Why should he even listen to him at all? Why not just strike him down the instant he sees Luke?
Basically, if anyone from his past was going to turn him back, I think it would have been Han, but Ben got all murdery with Han, so..... Rey is the only one who can reach him, I think. Whether she succeeds, whether she even tries again...we'll see.
For all we know, Ben will wake up and say that, as part of "killing the past" he has to kill himself, too, even as Rey is trying to pull him back to the light.
I think Ben is a really tragic figure. Way moreso than Anakin ever was. He was born into this amazingly powerful family, but sent away by his mother to live with his uncle, who then almost murders him, and his father is basically absent. In many ways, Ben and Rey are very much alike: abandoned by their parents, and with every reason to be angry at the galaxy. But whereas Ben turns inward and dwells on his pain, allowing it to corrupt him, Rey seeks to protect others and remains good at her core.
So far, anyway.
Moreorless37
Active Member
I mean that is fair, but another thing to consider is this one of his first students, and his nephew. And he is directly resposible for his fall. That would be a REALLY hard pill to swallow to say the least, and probably put him off teaching. To top it off he was never trained to teach, so it was all him
JD
Master Member
Darth Lars
Master Member
Luke and Leia were originally not supposed to be siblings. When ESB was made, there were ideas for a sequel trilogy with Luke searching for his long lost twin-sister -- the person that Yoda was referring to when he said "No, there is another". Come preproduction of ROTJ, Lucas decided to scrap that and instead retcon Luke and Leia into being twins.
Carrie Fisher's real age in ANH: 19 y/o became the reference for Luke's new official age, despite Hamill being five years older than Fisher in real life.
TFA is set 34 years after the events in ANH, but released 38 years after ANH in real life.
TLJ is set directly after TFA, skipping another two years. That's 5 + 4 + 2 = 11 years difference. The scenes with Luke in TLJ were shot in the summer of 2016 when Hamill was 64 ( = 53+11) and Hamill has had two birthdays since.
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Meh. Star Trek only has a more comprehensive dictionary of technobabble from which to draw. In ST you can always decouple something or reverse a polarity to conjure your Deus Ex Machina of the week.
Whoa, whoa, whoa. Whatever disagreements we may have about the film, let's not go that far.
Mine is Firefly.
sztriki
Sr Member
Thought about your post when I was listening to this interview, at 5:08 he was speaking about Colin Trevorrow, the now-ex director of Ep9...
https://youtu.be/k3NXIPKEJs0
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