If so I can hear Glen A. Larson rotating in his grave, grinding his teeth that he cannot return the law suits that Lucas decked him in upon release of BSG
Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Post-release)
- Thread starter dbuck
- Start date
If so I can hear Glen A. Larson rotating in his grave, grinding his teeth that he cannot return the law suits that Lucas decked him in upon release of BSG
A good point, and maybe a good intention, but damn bad execution in the script. Actually, Finn is set up very similar to Han Solo in ANH. First he´s in for himself, but in the end he returns and helps.
What we have to hold towards Finn is that he´s an active character. He tries do to something, together with Rose.
But unfortunately his action is a story being told within the story!!! You can completely take Finn and Rose out of the movie and it WOULD NOT MATTER! Or am I forgetting something here, again?
I think that Rian Johnson DELIBERATELY set us up when the first thing EVERYONE sees after the codebreaker plan was hatched was a reaction shot onto C-3PO. YOu effin CANNOT do this!!! It IS messing with the audience. A TWIST serves the plot and story and is BORN out of the story´s necessities. What was done here with the insertion of the codebreaker character, which I first loved, is to ADD another dead path, because we are served ANOTHER throw away character. I am okay with the exchange of the suave codebreaker in the casino being swapped out for DJ, but then seeing another character getting wasted AND burnt by making him a cheap traitor is a bit too much.
I still have to watch the movie again, but seriously, I am coming more and more to the conclusion that Rian Johnson really, really has even LESS interest in what the fans of the series (a series does come with a built-in audience and some standards to be successful) expect or at show some respect to them.
Yes, I am saying "can expect" as in "I think I am obliged to have...", but seriously, it was a different generation that made SW great. Let´s sit back and see how long SW can still stand out from all of the other competitors.
Last edited:
Those movies were MADE to challenge the audience´s imagination and intellect! SW?! Sorry...
Damn right.
3PO is in no way comparable to JarJar. You can erase JJ completely from the PT after he led the Jedi To Gunga city, noone would really notice. Purpose fulfilled, now he´s just baggage. 3PO? Companion to R2 and COMIC RELIEF. Not comedic appendix.
...[/QUOTE]
Exactly what I was after. See, the exposition regarding the Empire was done subtly and quickly.
SD chase. Vader boarding, killing the Captain in cold blood. Capturing the princess. >>> Empire is EVIL and brutal
Search party on the planet. POLICE FORCE! on the planet. >>> The Empire is PRESENT and has somekind of governmental status.
Whereas the First Order (which I still find a kind of ridiculous name) is shown burning down a village, destroying Maz´ Temple Diner Club, destroying a complete Planetary System. Thugs. Punks. Street cred? Duh.
Canto Bite also brings in DJ who gives up the Resistance Fleet cloaking technology to the First Order when they are captured allowing them to see their escape attempt.
Rogue1Luvr
Active Member
Star Wars maybe doesn't "challenge" the audience's imagination but it definitely captures people's imagination.
Galactican
Sr Member
Indeed. It's like using the Warp drive in Star Trek to crash into an enemy ship to destroy it. It's the final resort when all other options have failed. There was only one point in the history I remember when this was brought up: When Riker gave the order to go to Warp to destroy the Borg vessel in Earth's orbit (ST TNG: Best of Both Worlds, Part II).
I'm wondering, what will the ones who dislike the movie say when Episode IX brings back JJ and JJ would give "answers" to the questions raised like, Kylo was lying, Rey is the daughter of Kenobi/Skywalker/Whoever/Whatever etc. just like the fans had expected to see in Ep VIII? Will they be pleased in the end and say, yes, that's what should have been in Ep VIII, or, I knew it all the time, or will they be like, naw, what a crap decision, they screwed it up with Ep VIII and now they are giving some stupid fan service by exactly saying what the fans wanted to hear?
Last edited:
RPF posters commenting in every non-TLJ thread: Geeze, movie makers are dumbing movies down! They explain everything. There is no depth to characters or scenes!
Same RPF posters commenting in TLJ thread: Geeze, if I can't immediately determine every nuance in a movie by just watching the scene and not thinking about it the movie did a bad job!
Same RPF posters commenting in TLJ thread: Geeze, if I can't immediately determine every nuance in a movie by just watching the scene and not thinking about it the movie did a bad job!
The Brahma Bull
Sr Member
Well TLJ is trying to explain everything but has not much to explain, because after TLJ the characters are almost exactly where they were at the end of TFA. Just look at everything Finn and asian Jar Jar did. They always explained stuff, but it just didn't matter. Nothing they did or talked about had any impact. They tried to explain a lot about Rey, but this had no impact or relevance meaning, too.
Exactly. It is not David Lynch directing a Star Wars movie. And a Star Wars movie is not "Eraserhead" or "Mulholland Drive".
Yes. That is what it did, but IMO it was all started for making money. If I remember correctly, GL was looking for his next project to put some food on the table, just like every other prolific filmmaker. And according to all those biographies out there he always was someone who knew how to make his own money. So, the idea behind Star Wars is different to, say, the ideas behind a movie like the aforementioned ones. GL=business man and craftsman, e.G. Lynch= full blown artist.
I have not seen such self-contradicting posts, please post an example. Maybe I myself seem to be guilty of that? With all those huge amounts of typing that is done related to the new movie, how the hell can I keep track of my opinions?!
J/K.
The truth, I guess, lies in the middle. There are some very basic rules and guidelines that you learn in the 101 of screen writing at any filmschool or can be found in the most basic literature about screen writing, be it in printed form or online. "Exposition" i.e. setting the scene and rules to the world the audience is invited to visit is really important and often distilled into three words: Show, don´t tell.
Movies are a visual experience and form of story telling. If the images themselves cannot convey the content, it does not really help to add dialogue. Yes, the silent movies are actually great examples. You can understand Metropolis without the text cards, I would dare say. And even if not, the text is a fraction of information that is needed to understand the movie. heck, that movie is nearing its ninetieth birthday.
There is always something that goes above the head of a part of the audience. Director and audience often do not "speak the same languages". A director may have a grand idea, but if he gets caught up in some highbrow selfcontained thought construct, he gives people a hard time to decipher the message. I dare say that IS okay for a David Lynch or Lars von Trier. Why not for a Rian Johnson? Look at the movies of those gentlemen, it IMO is self-explanatory.
And THEN look at the target audiences.
Star Wars: ANH and ESB are established corner stones in screen writing classes, and not only there but also in classes about editing, production design and music. Because they are PRIME examples of how things are done right, to create a cohesive movie experience.
Looking at TLJ, it falls apart.
A Star Wars movie is imo NOT a movie to THINK about. It is ESCAPISM, it offers an escape from reality. If I want a movie to THINK about I will go and watch a different movie.
A Star Wars movie is imo a movie that I want to FEEL. And if I take all the usual feelings that an escapist movie should contain for me to be successful, a Star Wars movie needs to evoke something that a stand alone movie NEVER can. The feeling of HOME and emotional RECOGNITION.
Now that I am writing this, this was even SAID in TFA! "Chewie, we´re HOME!" Fan-service? Yes. But DAMN did they get me with that one. It unfortunately was over-used and spoiled in the trailers, but JJA understood what it was about. The ESSENCE.
I am ALL for change, but a home can be left and does not need to be burnt down to explore new regions, to put some wind beneath the wings of the kids so that they can find their way in life.
Jaitea
Master Member
What I don't understand is why did the Resistance ships jump to somewhere in space that was so far away from anywhere knowing when they got there they wouldn't have enough power to jump again.....why didn't they jump to a civilised system or even to the Salt planet
Why did the guy just put the salt he lifted off the ground into his mouth.....it could have been anything,...even corrosive or poisonous
J
Why did the guy just put the salt he lifted off the ground into his mouth.....it could have been anything,...even corrosive or poisonous
J
cboath
Master Member
Who says they went far? The point was to get the hell outta dodge so to speak. They weren't expecting the attack so the ships weren't full of gas. They jumped to a spot and were going to regroup and decide where to go next. Didn't really matter how much gas they had. If you can be tracked, jumping does you no good at all. No one even responded to their calls from help at the end, so getting to a friendly planet seemingly wouldnt have made a bit of difference either.
cayman shen
Master Member
Nonsense. That discounts the entirety of literary analysis (and by extension film criticism). Many, many works benefit from deeper exploration. As an English teacher who teaches a film studies course, I can't tell you how often students grow to appreciate something they'd initially written off...once they dig a little deeper.
PantheraGem
Sr Member
Why didn't I see this before Christmas?
To prove it wasn't snow (it's not Hoth, honest!) and to get in the cameo for Gareth Edwards.
I figure they were headed for Crait. If they weren't in the Crait system, it would have taken years to get there at sub light speeds.
Not aimed at you Jaitea:
Why would Finn need to see the evil arms traders to give him a reason to fight? He was taken from his parents by the Empire err First Order for Pete's sake! Just ham fisted story telling. Although it is extremely amusing to have an anti capitalist message in a Disney movie. Perhaps most the gamblers got rich making animated movies based on public domain stories.
My wife, who is a casual SW fan whispered in my ear during the movie "You'd think they would have figured out the fuel problem in their world". I'd have to agree. What a cheap, lazy plot device.
Is Coruscant still around? I know it wasn't the planet destroyed in TFA. Just wondering
Is Coruscant still around? I know it wasn't the planet destroyed in TFA. Just wondering
sztriki
Sr Member
Ah ******, you had to mention it...now I gotta watch it and be depressed for 3 days like every time I watch it. God I love that movie...
Agreed 100%.
The details are not gonna change the main setup that much, it's FO with their Empire-tech against the rag-tag Resistance. The OT went down just fine without a single mention of any "throne world" or involving one in the story. In fact it doesn't really make any difference in the PT coz all the fighting goes on in the outer worlds, Corsucant pretty much weathered out the entire Clone War without any real damage sans the space battle in the beginning of ROTS. At least we're not shown otherwise. And TLJ started off by stating the First Order reigns, so losing a capital ship is not that huge a damage. Kylo took over from Snoke, Hux pretty quickly submitted to him so, not that much of a change. TLJ didn't let enough time to set up a real power struggle between the two, it would have been interesting to end this movie with the FO breaking in two, but again, a missed opportunity to change the setting a little bit. Unless they'll just announce it in the titlecrawl of Ep9.
Last edited:
Last edited by a moderator:
I'd just like to give a heartfelt thank you to a few here on the RPF for the feelings of nostalgia & memories that you've brought back to my mind...
When my son was 8, & my daughter was 6 we had the opportunity to see Tim Burton's The Nightmare Before Christmas in theaters, a treat, since it had originally been in theaters when my wife was pregnant with my son. They were SUPER EXCITED, since we listened to the soundtrack constantly, they played with the few Jack & Sally figures I had found them, & a viewing of the movie was a tradition during both Halloween & Christmas.
So, we get to the theater, stand in line for our concessions, get to the front & order our popcorn & ICEEs, but, were told the ICEE machine is down.
...but... They wanted ICEEs... How can they be expected to enjoy themselves without ICEEs?
I, as rationally as possible, explained to my spawn what had happened, that the machine was broken, & although it was no one's fault, & they could have any other beverage on the menu... But they weren't hearing any of it. No amount of being rational or explaining in simple, basic, easy to understand terms was going to get through to them. They were both in full-on, hyper-BRAT mode, which meant since they weren't happy, their purpose on this planet, was to pout, complain at everything from the temperature of the theater, to the colour of the carpet, & try to tell me, who was completely enjoying the film, why we should abandon all hope & just leave.
The pout-fest continued for a few weeks, with no one playing with Jack, Sally, or even a hum of the soundtrack melody. My wife was a bit less understanding than I was, trying to rationalize with them, telling them they were being brats, etc, but I told her, " Honey, they're children who didn't get what they were expecting. They're angry at the situation, & can't stand the fact that others are enjoying themselves, so their only options are to either accept the situation, or try to ruin it for others. You can't rationalize the most plain & simple things with them, cause there's none as blind as those who will not see, so let them pout, whine, & complain, & enjoy yourself.".
That's exactly what we did.
It wasn't enjoyable to deal with at the time, but as I look back on it now, with my daughter away at school, & my son married & expecting his first child next month, it has become a fond memory.
So again, I thank those of you here that reminded me of my kids during this special time.
When my son was 8, & my daughter was 6 we had the opportunity to see Tim Burton's The Nightmare Before Christmas in theaters, a treat, since it had originally been in theaters when my wife was pregnant with my son. They were SUPER EXCITED, since we listened to the soundtrack constantly, they played with the few Jack & Sally figures I had found them, & a viewing of the movie was a tradition during both Halloween & Christmas.
So, we get to the theater, stand in line for our concessions, get to the front & order our popcorn & ICEEs, but, were told the ICEE machine is down.
...but... They wanted ICEEs... How can they be expected to enjoy themselves without ICEEs?
I, as rationally as possible, explained to my spawn what had happened, that the machine was broken, & although it was no one's fault, & they could have any other beverage on the menu... But they weren't hearing any of it. No amount of being rational or explaining in simple, basic, easy to understand terms was going to get through to them. They were both in full-on, hyper-BRAT mode, which meant since they weren't happy, their purpose on this planet, was to pout, complain at everything from the temperature of the theater, to the colour of the carpet, & try to tell me, who was completely enjoying the film, why we should abandon all hope & just leave.
The pout-fest continued for a few weeks, with no one playing with Jack, Sally, or even a hum of the soundtrack melody. My wife was a bit less understanding than I was, trying to rationalize with them, telling them they were being brats, etc, but I told her, " Honey, they're children who didn't get what they were expecting. They're angry at the situation, & can't stand the fact that others are enjoying themselves, so their only options are to either accept the situation, or try to ruin it for others. You can't rationalize the most plain & simple things with them, cause there's none as blind as those who will not see, so let them pout, whine, & complain, & enjoy yourself.".
That's exactly what we did.
It wasn't enjoyable to deal with at the time, but as I look back on it now, with my daughter away at school, & my son married & expecting his first child next month, it has become a fond memory.
So again, I thank those of you here that reminded me of my kids during this special time.
Similar threads
