Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Post-release)

[The Brahma Bull]

While "ruining childhood" might be a bit extreme. New movies do color and affect the older movies due to the fact that Humans associate.

For instance, I can't look at Vader now without thinking about all the Anakin stuff that didn't go over well.

And it sort of dampens the ending of ROTJ, to know that Luke will go on to be a fearful old hermit.

I think that's the point so many fans don't like TLJ.

For me this movie was a personal humilation. I, like many others, grew up with Star Wars. I was born in 1985, so the OT was completely released and Star Wars was maybe past it's prime but a big thing in (pop) culture.

I remember that unbelievable feeling when I first watched ANH and how mind blowing this was to me. I remember how shocked I was when Vader reveals himself to Luke. I remember how emtional it was for me to see Luke still believing there is good in Darth Vader and that he defeated the empire and even managed to redeem his father. So that there is a hope besides all of the failures.

TLJ takes away the magic of the OT because it (IMHO unnecessary) damages what and who Luke is for many people. I don't have big issues with the PT, sure these movies aren't great, but it does not really take away the spirit of the OT for me. TFA started with taking away the magic from all those beloved characters. But Han was not as inspirational as Luke was and it did have an effect for Hans character as well as for Kylo Rens, which I could partly accept.

With all it's flaws the PT still did tell a Star Wars story and managed at the same time to be different than the OT.

TFA was very similar to a new hope but it still brought in new interesting things even it wasn't a really good movie. TLJ adds nothing to SW, it just takes away from it and not even for real reasons. Just to be different. But it isn't different. Lot of scence were familiar in a bad way. Like a reflection of lots of things from ESB and RoTJ without a soul or a direction. This movie has good visuals and audio but it's still empty. There no developement of characters or story. Snoke is dead, but he didn't do anything and he simply was nobody. The writing was weak. It was nicley directed when it wasn't really important. Nice wide shots, nice details with the Luke - Ren showdown, but at the end, it meant nothing but "The OT is dead now, but we've no clue how to continue with this stuff, good luck JJ."

 

[Father]

When people say the magic is gone from these films what they mean is the magic specically for them.

The magic in a lot of things goes away when you get older.
Try watching some of the cartoons we watched as kids (GI Joe, Transformers, Voltron, etc.) and ask yourself "Was I really into this?"
Guys, is your taste in girls the same as it was when you saw the OT? If so, you should probably be on a watchlist.
Do you still feel "the magic" when you see a Lamborghini Countach?

You know what's magic to people that saw the OT in the theaters? Seeing the candidate they voted for getting elected and getting a low percentage rate when they finance a new car.

 

[DarthLee]

The magic in a lot of things goes away when you get older.
Try watching some of the cartoons we watched as kids (GI Joe, Transformers, Voltron, etc.) and ask yourself "Was I really into this?"
Guys, is your taste in girls the same as it was when you saw the OT? If so, you should probably be on a watchlist.
Do you still feel "the magic" when you see a Lamborghini Countach?

You know what's magic to people that saw the OT in the theaters? Seeing the candidate they voted for getting elected and getting a low percentage rate when they finance a new car.

I think thats why there seems to be such a diverse "commenting" about this film..

GI Joe, Transformers (well I cant say Transformers, cause I still enjoy it), Thunder Cats, etc, All seem to fade over time as we get older..

BUT, Star Wars was NOT those films. Star Wars was one of the very few that did stay with me.. From 5 to 45 years old.. It never changed or wavered, even after the PT. And it still holds my world record, for longest lasting, never disappointing, fantasy world stories of all time. ANH could have came out this year for the first time and as an adult, I would still feel the same way about it. Fantastic!!

 

[annanake]

You guys are really gonna be pissed when you find out Jar Jar has been running the shadow government science TPM!

ALL HAIL THE BINKS !

 

[Zuiun]

TLJ takes away the magic of the OT because it (IMHO unnecessary) damages what and who Luke is for many people. I don't have big issues with the PT, sure these movies aren't great, but it does not really take away the spirit of the OT for me. TFA started with taking away the magic from all those beloved characters. But Han was not as inspirational as Luke was and it did have an effect for Hans character as well as for Kylo Rens, which I could partly accept.

To begin with, I don't subscribe to the notion that either the new trilogy or the Prequels can tarnish the originals.

However, were I to pose such an argument, I'd say that seeing precocious little kid Anakin does more to harm the menace of Vader than seeing hermit Luke tarnishes the heroic image of Luke.

And maybe that's because we are viewing what Luke was doing on that island very differently. A lot of people seem to be taking the approach that he was running away, or giving up.

I don't.

The message I got from what we've been told is that Luke was shaken to his core both by the glimpse of the Dark Side within himself, and by the fact that he was completely blinded by Ben Solo's fall to the Dark Side until it was too late. So he went in search of the ancient Jedi texts for answers. The answer he came up with was that this was all a cycle and his conclusion was that he -- the last Jedi -- must die in order to break the cycle. So he chose to live out his days in seclusion.

Now... his choice seems to pretty obviously have been the wrong one, as cutting himself off from the Force didn't prevent Ben Solo from becoming stronger in the Dark Side. But, concluding that he was part of a perpetuating cycle and needing to die to end it is vastly different from running away / giving up, and even though it's not heroic in the classical sense of galloping in to save the day, it's still him choosing to sacrifice himself for what he believes is a greater good.

So again, while he may have been coming to the wrong conclusions, I don't necessarily see his resolve to break the cycle as being necessarily unheroic.

 

[The Brahma Bull]

You guys are really gonna be pissed when you find out Jar Jar has been running the shadow government science TPM!

ALL HAIL THE BINKS !


Nope that would be great and I'm convinced that if George Lucas was not just a good (story)writer but a good director (story teller) we would have become exactly that. I remember a scene from the making of PT documentary were Lucas said that Jar Jar has to work because he's elemental to the story. We all know why. BEcause he's the evil genius behind it all.

 

[The Brahma Bull]

To begin with, I don't subscribe to the notion that either the new trilogy or the Prequels can tarnish the originals.

However, were I to pose such an argument, I'd say that seeing precocious little kid Anakin does more to harm the menace of Vader than seeing hermit Luke tarnishes the heroic image of Luke.

And maybe that's because we are viewing what Luke was doing on that island very differently. A lot of people seem to be taking the approach that he was running away, or giving up.

I don't.

The message I got from what we've been told is that Luke was shaken to his core both by the glimpse of the Dark Side within himself, and by the fact that he was completely blinded by Ben Solo's fall to the Dark Side until it was too late. So he went in search of the ancient Jedi texts for answers. The answer he came up with was that this was all a cycle and his conclusion was that he -- the last Jedi -- must die in order to break the cycle. So he chose to live out his days in seclusion.

Now... his choice seems to pretty obviously have been the wrong one, as cutting himself off from the Force didn't prevent Ben Solo from becoming stronger in the Dark Side. But, concluding that he was part of a perpetuating cycle and needing to die to end it is vastly different from running away / giving up, and even though it's not heroic in the classical sense of galloping in to save the day, it's still him choosing to sacrifice himself for what he believes is a greater good.

So again, while he may have been coming to the wrong conclusions, I don't necessarily see his resolve to break the cycle as being necessarily unheroic.

Well i stay with what the actor of Luke, Mark Hamill himself said about this version of Luke in many interviews. He even told Johnson that Luke would not give up but that was what Johnson wanted to show in TLJ. And even if Luke came to the conclusion you're making, which is ok, because it was picked up in the movie, then he just gave up everything by telling Kylo Ren the exact opposite.

 

[Bryancd]

Well i stay with what the actor of Luke, Mark Hamill himself said about this version of Luke in many interviews. He even told Johnson that Luke would not give up but that was what Johnson wanted to show in TLJ. And even if Luke came to the conclusion you're making, which is ok, because it was picked up in the movie, then he just gave up everything by telling Kylo Ren the exact opposite.

Again because Luke realized he was wrong. He needed to inspire, not just show up and try to kill Kylo. Yoda told him effectively that Rey was all they needed for the Jedi to continue.

 

[The Brahma Bull]

Again because Luke realized he was wrong. He needed to inspire, not just show up and try to kill Kylo. Yoda told him effectively that Rey was all they needed for the Jedi to continue.

I never said that in my opionion he had to come and fight Ren. But he did not inspire, he simply bought time. Nobody heard what he said and he should've inspire Rey, which he not really did. IMHO the whole plot, well the whole movie was a product of really bad writing and directing.

 

[Bryancd]

I never said that in my opionion he had to come and fight Ren. But he did not inspire, he simply bought time. Nobody heard what he said and he should've inspire Rey, which he not really did. IMHO the whole plot, well the whole movie was a product of really bad writing and directing.

Not true. We see the effect his actions had in the coda with the stable boys reinacting Luke confronting the First Order with home made toys. That’s the light that sparks the flame.

 

[The Brahma Bull]

Not true. We see the effect his actions had in the coda with the stable boys reinacting Luke confronting the First Order with home made toys. That’s the light that sparks the flame.

Even though the whole plot in which the boys we're introduced was obsolet and it looked more that they're inspired by a vegan take on animals these boys we're, from a logical POV inspired from the Luke from Episode 6.

 

[Jaitea]

Not true. We see the effect his actions had in the coda with the stable boys reinacting Luke confronting the First Order with home made toys. That’s the light that sparks the flame.

The First Order must have been very impressed by Luke's actions, because they were the only witnesses to what happened on the Salt planet.....the stuff of legends

J

 

[Zuiun]

Well i stay with what the actor of Luke, Mark Hamill himself said about this version of Luke in many interviews. He even told Johnson that Luke would not give up but that was what Johnson wanted to show in TLJ. And even if Luke came to the conclusion you're making, which is ok, because it was picked up in the movie, then he just gave up everything by telling Kylo Ren the exact opposite.

The thing is, this is what Mark Hamill says his views were upon initially reading the script. This doesn't mean that Rian Johnson's intentions were exactly as what Hamill's interpretation was. Yes, Johnson clearly wanted Luke to have isolated himself so that he could have a redemption by coming back at the climax of the film, and yes, he clearly intended for Luke to have given up on the Jedi Order. This is evident by him saying the Jedi must end. But we don't know if Johnson's intent was for Luke to have wholesale given up.

Is my take on what was going on the right one? Who's to say... but I know I'm not the only one who saw it that way, so the elements are clearly within the film for that interpretation.

Hamill has also said in interviews that he and Johnson had long discussions, with Johnson listening to some of Hamill's input and the two of them coming to an agreement. So far, we keep seeing Hamill's quotes about disagreeing with Johnson plastered everywhere, but we don't know what their back and forth discussions detailed. For all we know, Johnson's intent was for Luke to be more sacrificing himself than giving up, but the initial draft of the script made that even less clear, leading to Hamill's "fundamental disagreement" and their back and forth evolved the idea a little.

 

[Bryancd]

Even though the whole plot in which the boys we're introduced was obsolet and it looked more that they're inspired by a vegan take on animals these boys we're, from a logical POV inspired from the Luke from Episode 6.

In their reinactment Luke is facing Walkers and a big gun, not his father and Palpatine.

 

[Jaitea]

In their reinactment Luke is facing Walkers and a big gun, not his father and Palpatine.

That's what I'm talking about......the last thing the Resistance/Rebels saw was Luke getting obliterated by the multitude of Walker laser fire......none of his heroics were witnessed by anyone other than the FO

J

 

[kalkamel]

So I watched The Last Jedi for the second time. I had thought maybe I judged it too harshly, allowing my prejudices to overlook its good qualities. Much to my own surprise, after the second viewing, not only did I find it much more tolerable, I thought it was very enjoyable. The humor seemed to hit the mark every time (I laughed at every single joke), the storyline was more coherent, I found the treatment of the character of Princess Leia a lot more respectable, the action scenes kept me at the edge of my seat and even Canto Bight was much more fun. And Luke... this time around, his motivations were clearer to me and this movie really showed him to be the badass Jedi Master he is. And Porgs... I love those little critters! I am now convinced that Rian Johnson has truly made a masterful entry in the Star Wars franchise that will be loved by fans for a long time.
...
...
...
...
And then I woke up.

 

[The Brahma Bull]

The thing is, this is what Mark Hamill says his views were upon initially reading the script. This doesn't mean that Rian Johnson's intentions were exactly as what Hamill's interpretation was. Yes, Johnson clearly wanted Luke to have isolated himself so that he could have a redemption by coming back at the climax of the film, and yes, he clearly intended for Luke to have given up on the Jedi Order. This is evident by him saying the Jedi must end. But we don't know if Johnson's intent was for Luke to have wholesale given up.

Is my take on what was going on the right one? Who's to say... but I know I'm not the only one who saw it that way, so the elements are clearly within the film for that interpretation.

Hamill has also said in interviews that he and Johnson had long discussions, with Johnson listening to some of Hamill's input and the two of them coming to an agreement. So far, we keep seeing Hamill's quotes about disagreeing with Johnson plastered everywhere, but we don't know what their back and forth discussions detailed. For all we know, Johnson's intent was for Luke to be more sacrificing himself than giving up, but the initial draft of the script made that even less clear, leading to Hamill's "fundamental disagreement" and their back and forth evolved the idea a little.

I agree with you that you see it that way. My problem with the whole Luke plot is more the way how Luke is portrayed and the poor wrting throughout the script. In my opinion and I'm not alone with it, too, there's a lack of respect for Lukes story in the OT and the overall conclusion of it.

I don't know how the discussions between Hamill and Johnson went. The things Hamill brought up and he, as it seemed, pretty much disagreed with are there and many fans don't like it either. At the end it's a matter of taste, like all in art. I think that one of the most iconic characters in all of film history should've treated better.

@Bryancd
How can they reinact the things that just happened when only the first order has whitnessed what a hologram of Luke did? He did not even really fight.

 

[Bryancd]

That's what I'm talking about......the last thing the Resistance/Rebels saw was Luke getting obliterated by the multitude of Walker laser fire......none of his heroics were witnessed by anyone other than the FO

J

It's a fairly tail, try not to be so literal. Some one witnessed what happened and they told others and the legend grew.

 

[annanake]

Nope that would be great and I'm convinced that if
George Lucas was not just a good (story)writer but a good director (story teller) we would have become exactly that. I remember a scene from the making of PT documentary were Lucas said that Jar Jar has to work because he's elemental to the story. We all know why. BEcause he's the evil genius behind it all.

Yeah it even continued in the clone wars with the Jar Jar falling into the win constantly .
I think it was the second season you even see Jar Jar mouthing Palpatines words as he orders Binks on a mission . ( for no known reason ) like he just mind tricked palpy without him knowing it ??? And I don't want to hear its stupid cuz I did not draw the cartoon . somebody made a conscious decision to have binks mouth mimick the future emperor .
He also goes on to get the only person outranking him on the mission killed off so he is in charge !

Damn Drunken Sith Master's !

 

[annanake]

It's a fairly tail, try not to be so literal. Some one witnessed what
happened and they told others and the legend grew.

Rey felt it with her super force whatever she got or Leia .

Who cares !
The train is so far off the known tracks I'm pretty sure Doc Brown is the conductor !

Why is there no Millennium Falcon emoji ?