Star Wars: The Force Awakens (Pre-release)

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

Well, to be fair Mos Espa in TPM looked indentical to Mos Eisley in ANH. In the PT the only locations that had a modern, clean look was Coruscant, Theed, and Jamino. Everywhere else they visited were either desert or jungle or lava planets. In the OT it was either Rebel Bases or Imperial ships, the only city we visited really was Bespin and it was pretty clean.
 
Re: Star Wars Episode VII

Well, to be fair Mos Espa in TPM looked indentical to Mos Eisley in ANH. In the PT the only locations that had a modern, clean look was Coruscant, Theed, and Jamino. Everywhere else they visited were either desert or jungle or lava planets. In the OT it was either Rebel Bases or Imperial ships, the only city we visited really was Bespin and it was pretty clean.
I have to disagree, I've watched the Mos Espa scenes in PM back-to-back with with Mos Eisley in ANH, and IMO there is a big difference in the lived it "feel" not only the sets but the costumes as well. In ANH the clothes looked like they were really being worn extensively in desert conditions (because they were), but in PM there is a lack of "thread bare" weathering and dirt as well as very nicly combed hair! Part of this is the difference of working on set vs working on location.
 
Re: Star Wars Episode VII

I agree with your observation, I just think in a general sense the overall aesthetic is very similar. And like I mentioned, besides Cloud City, what other major metropolis did we visit in the OT? I can't think of any at the moment.
 
Re: Star Wars Episode VII

Lucas specifically told the cleaning crews that they shouldn't clean the sets during OT production. Very well documented.

What I felt was wrong with the PT was that all those things were clean and brand new... and NONE of the designs carried over as junk in the OT. There's just no connection. It would have made more sense to see much of the junk of the OT in its pristine and new condition in the PT. The designs don't even mesh - they are two completely different styles.

That's where they did a good job in the Clone Wars series where we got to see brand new Y-Wings, complete with paneling that were missing from the ones that we saw in the OT.

I wouldn't say that the design aesthetic from the PT doesn't mesh completely with the OT, at least not as far as the Republic is concerned. Their cruisers were very reminiscent of Star Destroyers, the BARC fighters had X foils like X-Wings and a similar color scheme, Clone Troopers with their white Stormtrooper like armor, and you had the (ep. 2 or 3) Jedi fighters with their TIE fighter like cockpits. So there was a similar design aesthetic, just not any direct carryovers and I'm not sure I would wanted or liked any direct carryovers given the already over connectedness in the PT.

Personally, I feel that the OT design aesthetic is, overall, overdone in the SW universe. Everything in SW looks like Star Destroyers, TIE Fighters, Stormtroopers, etc. I had no problems with the designs in the OT, about the only thing I liked, because they, more or less, broke the mold of the OT designs and didn't overdo the copying of OT designs. Much better than The Old Republic game in where so much of their designs looked too much like the OT despite being set centuries before even the PT.
 
Re: Star Wars Episode VII

Lucas specifically told the cleaning crews that they shouldn't clean the sets during OT production. Very well documented.

What I felt was wrong with the PT was that all those things were clean and brand new... and NONE of the designs carried over as junk in the OT. There's just no connection. It would have made more sense to see much of the junk of the OT in its pristine and new condition in the PT. The designs don't even mesh - they are two completely different styles.

I agree 100%. We should have seen pristine X-wings and the armor covered Y-wings that we briefly saw in a couple of episodes of Clone Wars. Stuff like that.

I'm sorry but IMHO everything Nubian sucks!! I can't (off the top of my head) remember who designed the Naboo cruiser or the Naboo fighters but please don't use him again!! Give me greasy grimy gritty anyday. That's one of the main reason the original SW was so popular--people could relate to the designs. Most of the stuff in the prequals looked like 50's sci fi designs, sleek, silver, cigar shaped stuff.
 
Re: Star Wars Episode VII

Give me greasy grimy gritty anyday. That's one of the main reason the original SW was so popular--people could relate to the designs. Most of the stuff in the prequals looked like 50's sci fi designs, sleek, silver, cigar shaped stuff.

Well, I don't know about that. Certainly it was original and as a kid they look was cool, but I wouldn't go so far as to say that aesthetic alone was the reason the ship designs were popular. I can say as a 9 year old watching Star Wars, it was the kinetic action of the ships that was the most amazing to me.
 
Re: Star Wars Episode VII

TooMuchGarlic... we have agreed and disagreed on many things over the years in random threads...

I must say you have the exact opinion I have about Star Wars. Past, present, and future.

It's crazy.

Reading through everyones posts, I can't find a thing I dissagree with you about on this!

So... what he said!

The best part is your mention of the scuffs on the floors with the imperial scenes. I not only noticed when I was a kid. But all of those little things DID make us all BELIEVE that was a real LIVED IN universe. It felt real!

The prequels feel like what they are. 2 hour long green screen graphics presentations.

Some of the designs were AWESOME in the PT... but it never felt the same. How can I believe it's a real world if my brain won't accept its a real floor they are running on in some of the saber fights etc. It was "cool looking" but in no way did I ever get that REAL or believable... or even suspend disbelief fully.

The PT could have been awesome. But the used universe angle is only one of the missing pieces.

I think the clone wars toons come very close to what could have been great movies as far as feeling more "starwarsy" That's because there are people that grew up cherishing the heart and soul of what these movies are to fans and what makes that work... than George Lucas ever could again... he just doesn't feel as passionate about SW as the average fan...

Here is an analogy: people still listen to stair way to heaven right? I'd say Paige and Plant could go without ever hearing it again! They went on to do other things and really wanted to be remembered for more than their former band (not that it's possible, but that's how it works)
 
Re: Star Wars Episode VII

I think knocking the PT for it's excessive use of artificial environments is spot on. TPM was a much more practical sets kind if movie but by the time AOTC and ROTS were made locations and sets became green screens. However I think it's wildly optimistic to think that new films will revert to a practical form of scene and effects when it is do much more cost effective to use CGI.
 
Re: Star Wars Episode VII

On the subject of the "lived-in" quality of the OT vs. the "clean" quality of the PT....has anyone stopped to think that this was, perhaps, a function purely of lighting and sets?

Like, in the OT, everything was shot on sets or at least with matte paintings. The blue-screen work was part of optical compositing, but the composited shots were at least taken of actual models and such. By contrast, the PT was shot heavily on green screens and done with CGI.

I tend to think that CGI, no matter how much they dirty it up, always looks too crisp/clean to be real. It doesn't hold light the way real objects do. As a result, the look is that everything is "clean." I can't help but think that this, plus shooting in digital vs. film stock, has an effect.

The designs might be a bit more "lived-in," but I suspect that in the age of digital filmmaking, that "lived-in" quality will never be as earthy as it was back in the age of real film.

--EDIT--

I really need to learn to type and post faster...
 
Re: Star Wars Episode VII

i am so with you on this one. My son listens to them a lot. He is now 6, so we have mostly graduated to the radio adaptations.

Just gotta begin the indoctrination of the younger one now.



Up until recently I was right there with you. But as we speak my oldest son is reading the ROTJ read-along book with accompanying RECORD. :lol

Heaven is seeing your kids love Star Wars. :thumbsup
 
Re: Star Wars Episode VII

There is an element to all of this that I don't think many people are aware of. According to all of the extras on the Prequel DVD's and having read 365: The Sets of Star Wars, I learned that most of the sets of those films were in fact miniatures, as well as the vehicles. Perhaps what makes something not look quite right to the human eye is the digitizing process that can take a model and allow it to be composited onto a background. Plus all of the backgrounds were digitally painted, vs, actually painted. Makes a difference. Perhaps there are incidental flaws in a hand painted background that the eye registers in a different way than they would see in a digital one.

You also have to consider how it must have been for the actors. I mean, yes, an actor's job is to pretend for a living, but when you consider how much detail and work goes into their costume alone, you have to consider that it gives the actor something to work with. Even if the audience doesn't see it, it will give the actors a grounding with which to work. If it were theater or stage work, we could assume that the actors would use a different set of skills to convey the scenes. But the rhythm of stage and film are different. As a child we could easily pretend we were anywhere, doing anything, but as an adult it takes a great amount of suspension of disbelief to accept the impossible. For the actors and audience, we both need some context.

I have to heartily agree with redlettermedia's assessment that many times the scenes come across sterile because you can tell that the actors are acting out scenes on a completely blue or green void. If they have no context, no set to look at or other actor to look at (in the case of a digital character- though not all of the digital characters looked fake) then they could easily be lost.

I hope that the new films have a good mixture of both real sets and actual real world locations. As long as they don't film the entire movie in the studio, I'd be happy.
 
Re: Star Wars Episode VII

I have to heartily agree with redlettermedia's assessment that many times the scenes come across sterile because you can tell that the actors are acting out scenes on a completely blue or green void. If they have no context, no set to look at or other actor to look at (in the case of a digital character- though not all of the digital characters looked fake) then they could easily be lost.

I hope that the new films have a good mixture of both real sets and actual real world locations. As long as they don't film the entire movie in the studio, I'd be happy.

Although it's certainly has to be difficult to act to nothing more than a ball at end of a stick to give you an eyeline reference I don't think it's as much of the fault of the process as it is Lucas. Take RotJ for instance, Mark Hammil didn't have a real rancor to act to, probably nothing more than a ball on the end of a stick or something similar and yet he produced a good performance. Same goes with LotR where Andy Serkis performed all Gollum's parts both on location/set as well in the mocap studio so the actors not only have a reference for their eyeline but the actual actor performing the voice role acting with them. Of course the one thing that these two examples have in common that the PT (largely) lacked were practical sets and not a green set with nothing but green boxes representing furniture or machinery.

As for filming the entire new trilogy in the studio on a sound, I'd have no problem with that so long as it's done on real sets with no green or blue screens except for set extensions and matte paintings.
 
Re: Star Wars Episode VII

Well the other thing would be the lackluster writing of the PT too. That certainly didn't help. haha
 
Re: Star Wars Episode VII

J.J. Abrams to Direct STAR WARS: EPISODE VII | Collider
Guess he changed his mind.

J.J. Abrams Turned Down Star Wars: Episode VII | Superhero Hype

Speaking to Empire magazine, Abrams said he will be sticking to the "Star Trek" franchise. "I guess the franchises could go up against each other, but I'm not thinking that far ahead! I'm a huge fan of Star Wars, Empire and Jedi, and the idea of the world continuing is exciting and will be amazing. Kathy Kennedy is a friend and there are no smarter producers. It's in great hands."

He added that "there were the very early conversations and I quickly said that because of my loyalty to Star Trek, and also just being a fan, I wouldn't even want to be involved in the next version of those things. I declined any involvement very early on. I'd rather be in the audience not knowing what was coming, rather than being involved in the minutiae of making them."
 
Re: Star Wars Episode VII

I was an alien in ROTS. My scene was entirely on green screen and I feel like I turned in a decent performance.

But it took more than a few takes to get it right. :)
 
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