Star Wars: The Force Awakens (Pre-release)

[JD]

Why Bryan can't understand that Lucas deliberately and purposely had Jango bump his head in AotC is beyond me. Not sure why that's hard for him to accept - it's not unreasonable. Not sure why he feels the need to take potshots at me for it (frankly, that's worrisome behavior).

From http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Unidentified_head-bumping_stormtrooper

George Lucas paid homage to the scene by having Jango Fett bump his head on the low clearance door of the Slave I.[3] In the 2004 DVD re-release of the original trilogy, the "head-bumping stormtrooper" bump was enhanced with an obvious sound effect to draw more attention to the gaffe. [5] Although Lucas implies this stormtrooper was a clone of Jango Fett, the stormtrooper did not share Fett's voice or accent when speaking.

Also noteworthy that this site says about that ST:

This stormtrooper was a Human clone with the Imperial Stormtrooper Corps during the early part of the Galactic Civil War.

From http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0121765/faq#.2.1.8

...the implication is that the stormtroopers, who were revealed in the prequels to have been cloned from Jango, had inherited this slightly clumsy trait from him as well.

We've been over this, I've posted links that at least back up that idea - there are plenty of other sites that mention it and it really appears to be common knowledge. I find it much more believable than thinking George had the resources to create an army of clones in 1976-77. If you disagree - you're welcome to, but no need to be a dick about it (again and again).

Obviously, now this and anything else that might suggest ST are clones is a moot point - it doesn't matter, they are not clones - TFA seems to prove that.

 

[crabra comander]

You can cherry pick but it says that's conjecture, and they don't share the same voice. Did he edit everyone in the SE to have ozzy accents?

 

[DARKSIDE72]

How can you guys be so board as to speculate about stupid clones for how many pages now? WHAT does this have to do with episode 7????

 

[Sluis Van Shipyards]

Royal Guards are clones!

 

[JD]

Deckard is a clone!

 

[JD]

Some new pics from the ILM 40th Anniversary party... seem to be same costumes/props that were on display at Celebration.


CLICK AT RISK - POSSIBLE SPOILERS (nothing we haven't see though)

Kylo Ren w/ST (not clones)
Kylo, X-Wing - Finn & Rey Costumes
Snowtrooper and ST (again... not clones)

 

[binkleywalker]

Pennywise is a clown!

 

[griffinx1]

 

[Zombie_61]

But they weren't, and bringing it back around, it could easily have been and would have made a more compelling case that he intended them to be clones. I really don't think that was his intent 1976-1983 regardless of what he said 20 years later. Even doing the Special Editions he effected no changes to make that implication more clear.

I agree completely that Lucas could have done more to reinforce the notion that the Stormtroopers were clones if that was his intent, regardless of whether it had been in the original theatrical version(s) of the movie(s) or the not-so-Special Editions. To be perfectly honest I don't care one way or the other, especially since it has no bearing whatsoever on the story at the time the events of Episode IV take place.

How can you guys be so board as to speculate about stupid clones for how many pages now? WHAT does this have to do with episode 7????

Well, there hasn't been much Episode VII news lately, so we're just killing time until there's something to discuss...it's just one of the things we do here. :lol

 

[gizmo]

How can you guys be so board as to speculate about stupid clones for how many pages now? WHAT does this have to do with episode 7????

Um Episode 7 is Star Wars and it has Stormtroopers or Clone Stormtroopers in it.


Ben

 

[Bryancd]

Here's a description of the immediate post ROTJ situation that's part of the Marvel comic Shattered Empire.

http://makingstarwars.net/2015/07/synopsis-for-marvels-shattered-empire-released/

 

[cboath]

Why Bryan can't understand that Lucas deliberately and purposely had Jango bump his head in AotC is beyond me. Not sure why that's hard for him to accept - it's not unreasonable. Not sure why he feels the need to take potshots at me for it (frankly, that's worrisome behavior).

From http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Unidentified_head-bumping_stormtrooper


Also noteworthy that this site says about that ST:

From http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0121765/faq#.2.1.8


We've been over this, I've posted links that at least back up that idea - there are plenty of other sites that mention it and it really appears to be common knowledge. I find it much more believable than thinking George had the resources to create an army of clones in 1976-77. If you disagree - you're welcome to, but no need to be a dick about it (again and again).

Obviously, now this and anything else that might suggest ST are clones is a moot point - it doesn't matter, they are not clones - TFA seems to prove that.

The galactic civil war was the clone war, no? It had no stormtroopers by name.

Yes, GL had jango bump his head as a nod to the trooper bumping his head in ANH. It's still revisionist history. As I said, if he wanted the OT troopers to be clones it was supremely easy to toss in a throw away line to cement it. It wasn't done, because they weren't conceived as clones in ANH.

I don't see any issues with saying that by ANH 'some' of the clones were in the stormtrooper ranks, but as the ANH outtakes, rebels, and GL have said, by that time it was a mixture of both with them primarily being conscripts by the time of ANH.

The issue with clones in ANH would be that clones were still being produced 20 years after ROTS. Otherwise your clone stormtroopers are 50 years old and your front line troopers aren't 50. But, if they were new clones, it mean the factories were still churning them out 20 years later and they'd still be cranking them out at the time of ROTJ. If so, i suppose you *could* use it as a plot point that someone was stocking up clone troops in order to try and take over the galaxy as Palps had done.

The problem i have with that would be that obi-wan, yoda, and basically anyone who'd be a rebel would have known about kamino and that would have been target #1 post ROTS IMO. You can't beat an enemy with an ever lasting supply of troops. You'd also think post-takeover that the clones wouldn't have been necessary anymore and that all your money was going to building the death star, not to make new clones.

 

[Bryancd]

Why Bryan can't understand that Lucas deliberately and purposely had Jango bump his head in AotC is beyond me. Not sure why that's hard for him to accept - it's not unreasonable. Not sure why he feels the need to take potshots at me for it (frankly, that's worrisome behavior).

What Bryan does understand quite clearly is rank conjecture trying to masquerade as proof.

 

[Tan Djarka]

In early promotional material (the poster magazines put out concurrent with the original release) it definitively stated that the stormtroopers were "clones grown in tanks". That notion may have been revised since, but that's what I've always understood it to be.

 

[batguy]

As I said, if he wanted the OT troopers to be clones it was supremely easy to toss in a throw away line to cement it. It wasn't done, because they weren't conceived as clones in ANH.

This. It cannot be overstated. A whole clone army was pretty fresh bold idea in 1977. It would have taken an entire 1-2 seconds of dialogue to establish the stormtroopers as clones. It could have come in any of the three OT movies. It didn't happen.

But they did include a quick reference to past "clone wars" in the 1977 movie - treating the idea of clones fighting wars as if it was novel enough to be the standard way of referring those entire conflicts.

When the Cold War was in force and Earth was worried about WW3, we were referring to "nuclear wars" in the future because it would have made them different. All our previous & current wars up to that point had been essentially non-nuclear.



When in doubt, assume George Lucas didn't originally design it that way.

 

[Bryancd]

This. It cannot be overstated. A whole clone army was pretty fresh bold idea in 1977. It would have taken an entire 1-2 seconds of dialogue to establish the stormtroopers as clones. It could have come in any of the three OT movies. It didn't happen.

But they did include a quick reference to past "clone wars" in the 1977 movie - treating the idea of clones fighting wars as if it was novel enough to be the standard way of referring those entire conflicts.

When the Cold War was in force and Earth was worried about WW3, we were referring to "nuclear wars" in the future because it would have made them different. All our previous & current wars up to that point had been essentially non-nuclear.



When in doubt, assume George Lucas didn't originally design it that way.

All that really matters is what is or is not included in the films. That absurd Wiki entry not withstanding, it's far easier to assume Jango bumping his head an Easter Egg as opposed to a very subtle attempt to revise history.

So based on that comic description I posted above we can begin to see how the Empire tried to hold itself together. The idea of regional Moff's trying to cosolidate power and maintain some semblance of control dove tails well with the events of ANH where Palpatine disbanded the Senate and empowered the regional governance and planned in the Death Star to be the ultimate extension of his control. You can see the First Order rising from these ashes.

 

[Laspector]

The galactic civil war was the clone war, no? It had no stormtroopers by name..

Interesting. I never considered the Clone wars to be the civil war mentioned in the opening crawl of ANH. I mean, that war was over 20 years ago. I consider the aforementioned civil war to be the war between the Alliance and the Empire.

 

[Riceball]

Interesting. I never considered the Clone wars to be the civil war mentioned in the opening crawl of ANH. I mean, that war was over 20 years ago. I consider the aforementioned civil war to be the war between the Alliance and the Empire.

I'm pretty sure that the Galactic Civil War refers to the events of TOS and not the Clone Wars.

 

[Tan Djarka]

Good grief. I just told you that a source in 1977 established that stormtroopers are clones. This, by the way, is the same source that cited burning up in a volcano as the reason why Vader needed his suit, so it's likely a reliable source. Finally, the Jango head bump is cited as confirmation in the AOTC commentary by the man himself. Basically, by the ANH era, even if all stormtroopers aren't clones, some are, or at the very least, that one on the Death Star was. Except for what Dave Filoni says.

 

[glunark]

But you didn't link to the source.