Is is it me or are we seeing flesh tones and a eye in Kylo's mask!? I like tha if so I feared they were going to black it out
Star Wars: The Force Awakens (Pre-release)
- Thread starter Warpaint
- Start date
Is is it me or are we seeing flesh tones and a eye in Kylo's mask!? I like tha if so I feared they were going to black it out
Zombie_61
Master Member
I don't know how old you are, so I can't help but wonder if you've ever seen the original theatrical version of Star Wars (Episode IV, A New Hope, whatever) from 1977? All of the Stormtroopers have the same voice. I thought that was odd until I found out they were supposed to be clones, at which point it made sense. I don't think the Stormtroopers are clones throughout the Original Trilogy movies, or at least not all cloned from the same individual, but I do believe Lucas attempted to imply they were clones in Star Wars.
I wish we could just put this argument away in this thread. Its got little to do with TFA , its been done dozens times and the same people keep coming back to it time and time again and it changes absolutely nothing. It may be we learn a little more in the next trilogy about Stormtroopers baring in mind Finn is one, and perhaps we will get a definitive history. For now, lets just leave it be, and please move on ,
crabra comander
Master Member
Yeah, I just watched ESB and I'm surprised how many people think Fetts a chump. He was essentially able to spot Luke quick as crap. He was even smart enough to setup an ambush.
Wait Fetts not in this? Nevermind:rolleyes
Wait Fetts not in this? Nevermind:rolleyes
I am almost 47. I was almost 9 when STAR WARS, no ANH, came out and saw it 13 times in theaters. I owned the very first BetaMax release and was watching it at home before almost anyone I knew. And the troopers all sounded different, most notably the two having a conversation while Ben is deactivating the tractor beam. Their voices all sound somewhat similar due to the electronic manipulation used as they speak through their helmets. There are at least two actors in the credits who are credited as Stotrooper Voice, Morgan Upton and Jerry Walter. How old were you? Maybe it was you who was not old enough to hear the distinction.
Lucas made NO effort to portray them as clones when he very easily could have.
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Don't forget Terry McGovern.
Was he added as part of the Special Edition? I know for sure Morgan and Jerry were the original release.
No. Terry was most of the good lines. Here's a link that tells you what he said.
http://www.terrymcgovern.com/starwars.html
http://www.terrymcgovern.com/starwars.html
Zombie_61
Master Member
I was 15 years old in May of '77 (I'll save everyone the math, I'm 53 now), and lost count of the number of times I saw it in theaters. To this day, when I watch it the Stormtroopers' voices sound the same. There might be a slight difference between the voices of the Stormtroopers and the Sandtroopers (it's been a while since I've watched it), but the voices of all of the Stormtroopers in the same scene have always sounded the same to me.I am almost 47. I was almost 9 when STAR WARS, no ANH, came out and saw it 13 times in theaters. I owned the very first BetaMax release and was watching it at home before almost anyone I knew. And the troopers all sounded different, most notably the two having a conversation while Ben is deactivating the tractor beam. Their voices all sound somewhat similar due to the electronic manipulation used as they speak through their helmets. There are at least two actors in the credits who are credited as Stotrooper Voice, Morgan Upton and Jerry Walter. How old were you? Maybe it was you who was not old enough to hear the distinction.
But they weren't, and bringing it back around, it could easily have been and would have made a more compelling case that he intended them to be clones. I really don't think that was his intent 1976-1983 regardless of what he said 20 years later. Even doing the Special Editions he effected no changes to make that implication more clear.
JD
Master Member
The difference in voice and height are so minute that I don't fell it's real a valid reasoning for them to not be clones. The voices even have an effect on them to sound like a transmission which makes it much more difficult to distinguish.
Making a movie in 1976-7 where resources are much more limited is a quite a bit different than making AotC where Lucas has both the resources and technology to make clones much more apparent. How do you do in ANH? Put them all in white armor. Why not change in it the SEs? Because no one thought it was an issue (...or some other reasoning... lazy SE makers, no time, other clone sources, conscripts, yadda, yadda, yadda).
Frankly, the height/voice thing is a silly argument and a grasp at straws. I put more meaning in Jango's purposeful head bump than I do any height/voice variance.
There is enough evidence - real or circumstantial - to support either end of this discussion. In the end, the "anti-Cloners" win because that's what we're being sold now in the both the new movies and the new EU material.
Making a movie in 1976-7 where resources are much more limited is a quite a bit different than making AotC where Lucas has both the resources and technology to make clones much more apparent. How do you do in ANH? Put them all in white armor. Why not change in it the SEs? Because no one thought it was an issue (...or some other reasoning... lazy SE makers, no time, other clone sources, conscripts, yadda, yadda, yadda).
Frankly, the height/voice thing is a silly argument and a grasp at straws. I put more meaning in Jango's purposeful head bump than I do any height/voice variance.
There is enough evidence - real or circumstantial - to support either end of this discussion. In the end, the "anti-Cloners" win because that's what we're being sold now in the both the new movies and the new EU material.
OldKen
Master Member
Pause the movie when Vader is walking to the falcon, past the 50 troops...
the body types, stature, poses AND HEIGHT...
I NEVER thought they were clones...
They hired FOUR actors so they would sound DIFFERENT...
1 actor would be cheaper and quicker.
And Ben Burt could've made some simple level changes if all they wanted was subtle differences...
They wanted it to sound like DIFFERENT PEOPLE. NOT CLONES!!!!!
WATCH THE FEEDBACK I JUST DROPPED THE MIC!!!
the body types, stature, poses AND HEIGHT...
I NEVER thought they were clones...
They hired FOUR actors so they would sound DIFFERENT...
1 actor would be cheaper and quicker.
And Ben Burt could've made some simple level changes if all they wanted was subtle differences...
They wanted it to sound like DIFFERENT PEOPLE. NOT CLONES!!!!!
WATCH THE FEEDBACK I JUST DROPPED THE MIC!!!
Note also that for the DVD and BluRay releases, he didn't have Tem Morrison re-dub all the Stormtroopers along with Boba.
Meanwhile, back to TFA... How much of the "Road to Episode VII" stuff are people going to dig into? Uprising and Battlefront both deal with stuff not too long after ROTJ, including the Battle of Jakku, but I don't know how much else is going to be in ancillary materials versus tidbits dropped in the film itself. I mean, we commented when Trek09 came out how weak it was to have to read a prequel comic to know what was going on with everybody because it was information not contained in the film.
For most of my life I've preferred seeing the movie and then reading the book, because that tends to clarify and expand on things and I have a sense of "Ohhh...! That's what was going on there." Whereas when I do it the other way round, I tend to keep noticing all the things left out or altered and get grouchy. And, for the life of me, I don't know whether to wait for the film before I start filling in the missing pieces... or play and/or read as much as there is so when I see the film I know the significance of this or that background detail or casually-dropped name or whatever...
--Jonah
Meanwhile, back to TFA... How much of the "Road to Episode VII" stuff are people going to dig into? Uprising and Battlefront both deal with stuff not too long after ROTJ, including the Battle of Jakku, but I don't know how much else is going to be in ancillary materials versus tidbits dropped in the film itself. I mean, we commented when Trek09 came out how weak it was to have to read a prequel comic to know what was going on with everybody because it was information not contained in the film.
For most of my life I've preferred seeing the movie and then reading the book, because that tends to clarify and expand on things and I have a sense of "Ohhh...! That's what was going on there." Whereas when I do it the other way round, I tend to keep noticing all the things left out or altered and get grouchy. And, for the life of me, I don't know whether to wait for the film before I start filling in the missing pieces... or play and/or read as much as there is so when I see the film I know the significance of this or that background detail or casually-dropped name or whatever...
--Jonah
cboath
Master Member
I think if they were intended to be clones in ANH, there would've been an overt hint in one of the three movies of the OT. There's not. There's a reference to your father and i fought together in the clone wars. If there was an idea at the time to make troopers clones obi would have had that in his dialog a little throw away line of 'the clones became stormtroopers' or something to that effect. It would have made them more ominous IMO, so there's no reason to avoid other than it simply was not a thought at the time. Just as vader wasn't luke's father in ANH. That decision was made during ESB. Again, they had plenty of opportunity for throw away lines in all three movies to indicate troopers were clones and did no such thing. Simply put, you're not going to put effort into making them clones in 75-83 and then NOT reference the fact at all.
I realize it doesn't mean they can't make that decision after the fact to help dovetail 1-3 to 4-6, but it wasn't the intent until the mid 90's. As far as the retcon goes, they were simply fortunate that there's nothing to troopers at all but faceless outfits so they can now decide what they want to do with them after the fact. It allows the rebels crew to do what they want and the E7 crew to do what they want as well (just need to make sure each side knows what the other is doing so as not to mess it up).
Not making the overt reference works out because no one is locked into anything. No one's OT experience changes if the troopers are or aren't clones. It wasn't relevant to any part of the story. So it becomes a win win situation down the road.
I realize it doesn't mean they can't make that decision after the fact to help dovetail 1-3 to 4-6, but it wasn't the intent until the mid 90's. As far as the retcon goes, they were simply fortunate that there's nothing to troopers at all but faceless outfits so they can now decide what they want to do with them after the fact. It allows the rebels crew to do what they want and the E7 crew to do what they want as well (just need to make sure each side knows what the other is doing so as not to mess it up).
Not making the overt reference works out because no one is locked into anything. No one's OT experience changes if the troopers are or aren't clones. It wasn't relevant to any part of the story. So it becomes a win win situation down the road.
JD
Master Member
Here's hoping it knocked some sense into you.
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