KaanE
Sr Member
YouTube - Luke vs Vader Star Wars Episode VI Return of the Jedi
I like this OST the most, specially on 3:08. THAT'S A MOVIE!
I like this OST the most, specially on 3:08. THAT'S A MOVIE!
Star Wars blu ray in September
- Thread starter jcoffman99
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KaanE
Sr Member
QFT! :thumbsup
Solo4114
Master Member
The really ridiculous part is how crappy a job they did with brightening the palette. There's a sequence in ESB on the '04 version where you can literally watch as the palette shifts from new back to old for a split second BEFORE they do the fade. It's not a gradual shift, it's like jamming your car from 5th back down to 3rd. At first I thought my eyes were playing tricks on me, but when I went back and watched it again, there it was. If you do it in slow mo, it's even more obvious. As I recall, it was the "Good. Our first catch of the day." part when the two officers are on the bridge of the Star Destroyer.
I mean, honestly, stuff like that is just bush-league f-ups. There's no defending it. They just did a lousy job and they refuse to admit it. All of this goes to prove that they really just don't care anymore. They don't care if you don't like the SEs. They don't care if you complain about how they botched this or that. Why? Because they know they don't HAVE to care. Even the frustrated fans will still buy 'em. Why would you ever bother changing what you were doing wrong, if people still paid you to do it? Like I said, why go the extra yard if every dollar spent on the DVDs tells you "Eh, good enough."
The only thing that worries me is the lack of widescreen. All the HD episodes you see on tv are full screen and it means they have zoomed in. The DVD's are widescreen and i think they look better upconverted then the tv HD stuff. If they are not 2.35:1 then i am not getting it.
Jedi2016
Sr Member
So far there's been no indication that they're changing the aspect ratio away from the proper 2.35:1.
The cropping you see on TV is specifically for television, just like it was in the 4:3 pan-and-scan days.
It says widescreen on the SW website now so i am happy.I just hope 2.35:1. I don't care about the cover artwork, they could put JarJar all over it for all i care, i want the discs.
Solo4114
Master Member
Except a high enough number of people will ALREADY say "Good enough" and leave it at that. The folks who'll walk away from it aren't a large enough percentage for them to care. I mean, I can say "Screw that. I'm not buying it," but I know I'm in what amounts to a serious minority of the realistic potential market for these discs. And there are plenty who will say "This sucks! How could they put forth such a travesty?!" and still buy it, let alone say "Good enough" and buy it. So, again, why would they care about voices of dissent? Half the time, those same people end up saying "Keep up the good work!" with their wallets, and really that's the only kind of talk that matters.
I don't think anyone who hates the box art really cares about it all that much. It's more just another indicator of "the powers that be" being out of touch with what at least a portion of their audience feels, and a further reminder of the direction the franchise has gone and is going -- which to these same dissidents, feels like the wrong direction.
It's about as meaningful as, for example, a national leader not knowing the price of a gallon of milk or how to operate a gas pump. Does it really matter in any substantive sense? Nah, of course not. But it could be seen as indicative of a larger, deeper, far more substantial problem.
Anyway, that Katie Lucas selected the artwork (or at least had a sufficient hand in the decision to brag about it) merely tells me that the heirs to the Lucas Media Empire are likely to be not much better than their predecessors. But hey, I look forward to being proven wrong. I won't, however, hope for it nor hold my breath.
trekman1017
Well-Known Member
They should put the holiday special in this.
DarthThrasher
Member
I'm not surprised that the original cuts of the film are not included... We'll probably get them someday in another release like Lucasfilm is doing us a favor, but nobody will care then.
I was most looking forward to specifics about the deleted scenes, but it appears that was summarized in a one-liner and revealed nothing, which makes me believe it's not going to be one of the bigger selling points as one would hope. Probably another disappointment coming...
I was most looking forward to specifics about the deleted scenes, but it appears that was summarized in a one-liner and revealed nothing, which makes me believe it's not going to be one of the bigger selling points as one would hope. Probably another disappointment coming...
Colin Droidmilk
Sr Member
That's why I consider my early 80s VHS tape superior. It has a white star destroyer - not a red, green, yellow and purple one.
dualedge
Sr Member
This is the point that I always find myself coming back to and scratching my head over when I see fans arguing. Out of all the anti-SE vs. pro-SE, anti-prequel vs. pro-prequel, anti-extended universe vs. pro-extended universe... are there really folks out there that DON'T want a cleaned up, HD, archival version of the old trilogy?
Folks can argue about what they love and hate 'til they're blue in the face but I find it dumbfounding that Star Wars fans don't speak with a single voice on this one point.
All the points you made, Solo, are dead-on. I never understood why they added all those fancy CGI X-wing shots and then left that old firecracker-style effects shot of the X-wing exploding on the surface of the Death Star. I don't mind that effects shot in the context of the original but it sticks out like a sore thumb in that 2004 version of the SE. (Did they ever change that in subsequent versions of the SE?)
Personally, I think it'd be awesome to be able to go back and watch a true version of Star Wars as it played in theaters originally... an ACTUAL theatrical cut. There were so many edits from 1977 on that I wonder if the TRUE theatrical cut maybe actually IS lost forever? Certainly there has to still be a copy somewhere I hope even if we never actually see it again.
Colin Droidmilk
Sr Member
The explosions on the DS surface were so bad I thought they were embarrassing at the time, when I was ten. It's not just the explosion, it's the model photography too. It all just looks like a model a few feet in front of your face. There's more convincing pyro work in some of the later Gerry Anderson puppet stuff (eg the airbase inferno in the first episode of Joe 90, which is jaw-dropping while the SW is cringemaking). Why L left those shots in (not that I want them replaced with cgi!)and scrapped all those gorgeous, history-making motion control dogfight shots is beyond all sense.
As for original '77 cut, again, I'm sure early 80s VHS is your friend - mine is pretty damn raw, bleached out kinda, but therefore almost certainly the cut as it was in the cinema before the first wave of remastering. If the movie was edited for the '78 re-release I suppose this tape bears those edits, but hell, whatever they are, they must be infinitesimal. Unfortunately there's no widescreen version. I tell ya though, watching that VHS tape feels more '77 than any dvd!
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Solo4114
Master Member
I didn't mind the explosions as a kid. I still don't, at least not when I try to recall them.
I look at it like this:
The SEs, while a fun little romp through enhanced technology, are just that. A romp. A lark. A "what if" scenario involving some bizarre fusion of 1970s and newer technology. They're an interesting curiosity, but little more than that for me. Most of the added scenes don't really add a ton, except perhaps the Biggs scene in ANH where we actually find out that Biggs and Luke really knew each other instead of it being merely implied during the trench run. Even then, it's one of the weaker scenes. Everything else? Pointless. Largely fluff. Fun to see it worked into the film, but again, more like a "Let's watch this for a lark" version rather than the definitive version (to me, at least).
I don't hate them, I just find them...frivolous. A bit of fluff, occasionally entertaining, like eating cotton candy once every five years just for fun. I don't even hate the prequels -- at this point, I more just roll my eyes and keep on walking, like running across an ex that you can't believe you ever dated and being briefly reminded of all the conflicted stuff you felt for them at one time, which has now largely faded to a simple "Ugh."
What I HATE is the SUPPRESSION of the original versions. It's Lucas' pigheaded "They're MY movies! So there!" attitude that really irritates me. I mean, yes, legally, they're his movies. But no, really, they aren't JUST his movies. They're our movies too, and its his unwavering "**** you. I don't care. They're MINE and I'll do what I want with them," attitude that really bugs me. It's the revisionist history, the erasing of the past, that really galls me.
I mean, ok, you want to tinker around and give us your "definitive -- no, this time for real -- at least until I get newer technology to play with..." version of the films? Awesome! I'll be curious to see what goofy crap you add with each new iteration with the same idle curiosity I offer any goofy fan edit. Just give me the old one too. But he refuses to release them. Or if he does, does so grudgingly and with no effort at actual preservation. I mean, let's be honest here. The only reason the '06 "LD rips" edition came out was to combat the widespread ebay piracy of the originals, and really all he did was offer an official version of EXACTLY what you'd get on ebay -- a cheap LD rip stuck onto a DVD. That's it. That's all it is.
So, as long as he refuses to release the originals, I see no point in shelling out cash for yet another fan edit.
I look at it like this:
The SEs, while a fun little romp through enhanced technology, are just that. A romp. A lark. A "what if" scenario involving some bizarre fusion of 1970s and newer technology. They're an interesting curiosity, but little more than that for me. Most of the added scenes don't really add a ton, except perhaps the Biggs scene in ANH where we actually find out that Biggs and Luke really knew each other instead of it being merely implied during the trench run. Even then, it's one of the weaker scenes. Everything else? Pointless. Largely fluff. Fun to see it worked into the film, but again, more like a "Let's watch this for a lark" version rather than the definitive version (to me, at least).
I don't hate them, I just find them...frivolous. A bit of fluff, occasionally entertaining, like eating cotton candy once every five years just for fun. I don't even hate the prequels -- at this point, I more just roll my eyes and keep on walking, like running across an ex that you can't believe you ever dated and being briefly reminded of all the conflicted stuff you felt for them at one time, which has now largely faded to a simple "Ugh."
What I HATE is the SUPPRESSION of the original versions. It's Lucas' pigheaded "They're MY movies! So there!" attitude that really irritates me. I mean, yes, legally, they're his movies. But no, really, they aren't JUST his movies. They're our movies too, and its his unwavering "**** you. I don't care. They're MINE and I'll do what I want with them," attitude that really bugs me. It's the revisionist history, the erasing of the past, that really galls me.
I mean, ok, you want to tinker around and give us your "definitive -- no, this time for real -- at least until I get newer technology to play with..." version of the films? Awesome! I'll be curious to see what goofy crap you add with each new iteration with the same idle curiosity I offer any goofy fan edit. Just give me the old one too. But he refuses to release them. Or if he does, does so grudgingly and with no effort at actual preservation. I mean, let's be honest here. The only reason the '06 "LD rips" edition came out was to combat the widespread ebay piracy of the originals, and really all he did was offer an official version of EXACTLY what you'd get on ebay -- a cheap LD rip stuck onto a DVD. That's it. That's all it is.
So, as long as he refuses to release the originals, I see no point in shelling out cash for yet another fan edit.
DarthThrasher
Member
Not a fan of the box art for the box set.
Perhaps a more appropriate artwork would be the same scene with a lenticular of Jar Jar before he steps in the "icky, icky goo" and then after he steps in the "icky, icky goo".
JediTrainer
New Member
"The nine-disc collection brings the wonder of the entire Saga direct to your living room, where you can revisit all of your favorite Star Wars moments – in gorgeous high definition and with pristine, 6.1 DTS Surround Sound"
.....So the sound for the movies will still be compressed and not blu-ray sound:confused? Why are we compressing sound for a blu-ray disk??? Blu-ray sound is encoded with a much higher bitrate and would be labled DTS-HD, DTS-HD MA or Dolby True HD. I will buy these the day they come out for sure, but I have a feeling they are not up to par with what the star wars fans want. All the problems are going to still be there. This is just a port to blu-ray with nothing done fix the abundance of problems these films have. All the extra garbage on the disk is not going to make me feel any better about the flaws of the dvds showing up on a blu-ray disk! They are just another source of income for the greedy lucas empire.:unsure
.....So the sound for the movies will still be compressed and not blu-ray sound:confused? Why are we compressing sound for a blu-ray disk??? Blu-ray sound is encoded with a much higher bitrate and would be labled DTS-HD, DTS-HD MA or Dolby True HD. I will buy these the day they come out for sure, but I have a feeling they are not up to par with what the star wars fans want. All the problems are going to still be there. This is just a port to blu-ray with nothing done fix the abundance of problems these films have. All the extra garbage on the disk is not going to make me feel any better about the flaws of the dvds showing up on a blu-ray disk! They are just another source of income for the greedy lucas empire.:unsure
Colin Droidmilk
Sr Member
I agree (apart from those 2 or 3 POV DS surface explosions!).
You know, you gotta wonder if part of L's suppression of the original has something to do with his fights with Dykstra over the FX at the time. The burial of all those dogfight shots almost looks like revenge. It almost reads as if he's saying, OK Dykstra, screw you, tons of your shots are going in the bin now, I don't need them now...
Considering the truly historymaking nature of Dykstra's work it's hard to think of any other explanation for wanting to destroy the historical record in the way he's doing... When you think of the almost unprecedented glory that those shots earned from critics and public on their first appearance, nothing else seems to explain their erasure from the record in this way. The cgi X-wings do not make history, they merely ride the coat-tails of the cg breakthrough. It was the old shots that made the history, that had a revolutionary pedigree. You'd think an artist would be proud that he'd broken new ground and want to show it off forever. In art it's the breakthrough moment that counts; Lucas has reduced the film in those terms and therefore also the evidence of his own achievement.
Too Much Garlic
Master Member
Well, I won't be able to revisit all my favorite Star Wars moments. Only the original versions of the OT would deliver that.
I agree with Solo - though the acting in the scene was weak, the Biggs and Luke scene in the hangar is the only added scene that actually ADDS to the movie. Everything else is just jarring *flash* detracting from the overall rest of the movie.
If he wants to do his ultimate version, do it right. Re-do ALL the visual effects. Why save some of it with the disclaimer: "that's how far the technology was back then", when he goes and changes other stuff throughout the movie, crapping all over the people who made those shots? It's a half-arsed effort... of simply... that's good enough.
Solo4114
Master Member
--EDIT--
Sorry, I realize what's below here will come across as harsh, but it's more just me being utterly baffled. Again, I don't mean to target anyone specifically, and I'm not trying to criticize, more just to understand the decision to buy when already "having a bad feeling about this."
--END EDIT--
THEN WHY WOULD YOU BUY THEM?
Honestly, I do NOT understand the mentality at work here. You know you're going to be frustrated/irritated/unsatisfied/undrwhelmed with the product you're going to buy, yet you admit that you will go and buy it anyway? WHY?! Dear god in heaven please explain to me why?
Why not just...skip it? Why not wait for the next iteration which will fix up this or that? Or maybe not, who knows. Why not wait until they drop in price or you maybe get them as a gift? Why not just walk away and say "You know what? If that's all they're gonna do, it's not worth my money. My DVDs are good enough."
I don't mean to single you out here or pick on you or anything, but this is the kind of attitude I repeatedly see that only ENCOURAGES LucasFilm to do EXACTLY what they're doing -- put out sub-par product. Raise your hand if you've heard of B.F. Skinner here.
I just don't understand why fans put up with it instead of saying "Nah. I'll pass." I mean, you've undoubtedly already got the films in myriad other formats. Is the HD picture ALONE enough to justify spending $90 of your money? If the extras don't really matter to you, if the sound is identical to the '04 DVDs, if you can still simply upconvert your existing DVDs on a BR player, and if the whole affair bugs you and leaves you saying things like "the greedy lucas empire", why the hell would you spend a dime on any of this?! Why settle, especially when settling only means you'll get more of the same in the future?
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