Star Wars Andor (Disney+ TV series)
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Gimpdiggity
Master Member
So…Luthen’s ship is pretty awesome.
Gimpdiggity
Master Member
I think this is precisely why I like this show so much.
I enjoy Star Wars as a franchise, but by and large (I’m going to get flak for this) it’s just…silly.
It’s space magic that George Lucas later tried to claim was effectively some kind of bloodborne pathogen. And laser swords that work because of crystals. And a bad guy doing the same thing over and over again and not understanding why it keeps failing (building planet sized space stations). And a religion that requires you to wear a helmet all the time. And Ewen McGregor.
All of that is completely absurd…yet it can still be entertaining. There is very, very little credibility to the universe that we’ve been shown in most of this franchise’s history.
Andor has done a good job of telling a story that has taken all of that silliness out of the equation. And I’m all for that.
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ScourgiousJinx
Master Member
The fact that this show isn't bringing in huge numbers is a testament to its quality. The general public doesn't exactly have the best taste in things, look at what sells out. I'm all for targeted and different as opposed to suffering though what current Lucas Film thinks everyone collectively wants to see. The Book of Boba Fett & Obi-Wan Kenobi were designed with general audiences in mind (also had high viewership) and they sucked. Mandalorian season1 was the only time IMO that current Lucasfilm did mass appeal well. This particular series isn't for everyone and that's totally cool.
Being an OT freak I agree with most of what you say, minus the Ewen part.
I also agree with what you said about Andor.
All the silliness, and fun is gone. It's a straight up, slow burn, gritty, dark drama. I always loved Star Wars because it was dark, light, fun, crazy, adventurous, serious, silly, etc.. Good guys were good, not murderess. Bad guys were bad. The underdog could win. Size matters not. Yeah, okay. Tell yourself that.
I miss fun.
A dark tale used to be more rare. Now it is the standard. Seen Netflix lately. It's so many dark, depressing tales. Andor is just another one.
The world needs some silliness.
My original comment was really just pointing out the obvious. It really should not be a suprise this tale is not bringing in good numbers.
BTW thank you to everyone so far who have disagreed but managed to do so without name calling and insulting. That just takes the fun out of the discussion
Exactly. Totally cool. Not for everyone, and that is okay.
The have yet to invent a word that describes how bad Obi Wan and BOBF were. These were two of the best characters. IMO they were two of a very few done right in the prequals, although more of Obi's backstory would have been nice.
Mando was good for both seasons IMO, although lots of odd, huge flaws. Then it was totally undone in two episodes of BOBF WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
So here is the scorecard IMO, which as always is correct.
OT Awesome
PT sucked
Sequel Trilogy Dumpster fire filled with toxic chemicals
Mando. Good but with problems.
BOB and Obi Beyond suck
Andor Great quality. Not for everyone. More adult, gritty, etc.
Not exactly a great record.
No idea why I am so chatty this early in the morning.
And many people seem to like the cartoons.
Some of may favorite movies are animated but for some reason I just can't get into Star Wars cartoons.
Jaitea
Master Member
You and I are clonesExactly. Totally cool. Not for everyone, and that is okay.
The have yet to invent a word that describes how bad Obi Wan and BOBF were. These were two of the best characters. IMO they were two of a very few done right in the prequals, although more of Obi's backstory would have been nice.
Mando was good for both seasons IMO, although lots of odd, huge flaws. Then it was totally undone in two episodes of BOBF WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
So here is the scorecard IMO, which as always is correct.
OT Awesome
PT sucked
Sequel Trilogy Dumpster fire filled with toxic chemicals
Mando. Good but with problems.
BOB and Obi Beyond suck
Andor Great quality. Not for everyone. More adult, gritty, etc.
Not exactly a great record.
No idea why I am so chatty this early in the morning.
And many people seem to like the cartoons.
Some of may favorite movies are animated but for some reason I just can't get into Star Wars cartoons.
Absolutely the same
J
Okay just finished the latest episode.
The 2-3 minutes of actual spaceship action was really awesome right up until the lightsaber ship part,.....sorry. Just felt nauseous there for a moment.
The Saw/Luthen discussion was very well done and, unlike Andor who murders anyone in his way, these two seem to actually think about what they are doing and the cost.
Otherwise another slow burn.
Snark alert.
I am so glad we are learning so much about Mon Mothma's obnoxious daughter. I always felt Star Wars needed the horrific trend of kids almost always being little sh!ts
right up until the lightsaber ship part,.....sorry. Just felt nauseous there for a moment. The Saw/Luthen discussion was very well done and, unlike Andor who murders anyone in his way, these two seem to actually think about what they are doing and the cost.
Otherwise another slow burn.
Snark alert.
I am so glad we are learning so much about Mon Mothma's obnoxious daughter. I always felt Star Wars needed the horrific trend of kids almost always being little sh!ts
Notes about Episode 11
I like how they handled Maarva's death through Brasso's interactions with the droid. Her death offscreen denies us closure which is appropriate given what Cassian would experience. If you appreciate character there's a lot to take in, thankfully, without reliance on overt exposition.
I am happy that the writing in Andor hasn't folded its story arcs in the most obvious or conventional ways. I make predictions based on conventional writer logic, and I am glad when they don't pan out. - e.g. Episode 3 looked like it was setting up a mentor relationship between Luthen and Cassian where Cassian's reluctance to follow Luthen's instructions to take out Syril in cold blood would come back to haunt him if Syril ended up being responsible for the (inevitable) death of Maarva.
I also made a prediction about Mon Mothma that (gladly) doesn't seem to be happening, either.
---
Just when you think Syril can't get any more pathetic than his confrontation/confession to Lt. Meero we see him stealing money from his mom's stash at home and sneaking out.
Luthen isn't doing Saw's fundamental paranoia any favors, is he?
Luthen's escape was very good overall. I like how they handled the suspense at the start. I don't mind that his ship seemed kinda OP, since he's probably dumped a fortune into building it, but I'm not sold on the utility of that "lightsaber" beam thingie which relies on being able to fly really close to another ship. I guess you can rationalize that it was actually designed to be used against pirates trying to board the ship, or something like that. Still, I think I would have preferred if he just escaped by going hyperspace after breaking the tractor beam without having to outgun everyone. Not every Star Wars protagonist has to be an ace pilot.
Cassian hearing the news about Maarva felt very genuine. His moment on the beach in the setting sun was also a poignant foreshadowing.
I like how they handled Maarva's death through Brasso's interactions with the droid. Her death offscreen denies us closure which is appropriate given what Cassian would experience. If you appreciate character there's a lot to take in, thankfully, without reliance on overt exposition.
I am happy that the writing in Andor hasn't folded its story arcs in the most obvious or conventional ways. I make predictions based on conventional writer logic, and I am glad when they don't pan out. - e.g. Episode 3 looked like it was setting up a mentor relationship between Luthen and Cassian where Cassian's reluctance to follow Luthen's instructions to take out Syril in cold blood would come back to haunt him if Syril ended up being responsible for the (inevitable) death of Maarva.
I also made a prediction about Mon Mothma that (gladly) doesn't seem to be happening, either.
Davo Sculdun wants so much to make this meeting between his son and their daughter to happen he will approach her husband, Perrin Fertha, about it separately. Perrin will be in favor of the arrangement. It shouldn't be surprising that they would meet because we have already learned they've done business before. We've also learned that both Mon and Perrin accept that they will have secrets from each other in their marriage. For the sake of social propriety, and as a courtesy to a potential relation, Davo will not disclose to Perrin that he ever met with Mon. And, as a gesture of good will, he will give her the money while keeping it a secret from the husband.
Naturally Mon will be against the idea and there will be a heated argument with her husband where a lot of nastiness comes out. The daughter, who is probably eavesdropping, hears her mom defending her independence and poignantly implying that she doesn't want her daughter to be forced make the same choices she had to make (e.g. arranged marriage). At the same time she will hear her dad putting his foot down in defense of traditional values. This will cause the daughter to have a change of heart and align with her mom.
Either this will break the marriage or they will remain together while Mon and her daughter will agree to keep up appearances pretending the daughter is still aligned with the dad. If that's the case, the daughter would make another good inside asset for the rebellion.
Naturally Mon will be against the idea and there will be a heated argument with her husband where a lot of nastiness comes out. The daughter, who is probably eavesdropping, hears her mom defending her independence and poignantly implying that she doesn't want her daughter to be forced make the same choices she had to make (e.g. arranged marriage). At the same time she will hear her dad putting his foot down in defense of traditional values. This will cause the daughter to have a change of heart and align with her mom.
Either this will break the marriage or they will remain together while Mon and her daughter will agree to keep up appearances pretending the daughter is still aligned with the dad. If that's the case, the daughter would make another good inside asset for the rebellion.
---
Just when you think Syril can't get any more pathetic than his confrontation/confession to Lt. Meero we see him stealing money from his mom's stash at home and sneaking out.
Luthen isn't doing Saw's fundamental paranoia any favors, is he?
Luthen's escape was very good overall. I like how they handled the suspense at the start. I don't mind that his ship seemed kinda OP, since he's probably dumped a fortune into building it, but I'm not sold on the utility of that "lightsaber" beam thingie which relies on being able to fly really close to another ship. I guess you can rationalize that it was actually designed to be used against pirates trying to board the ship, or something like that. Still, I think I would have preferred if he just escaped by going hyperspace after breaking the tractor beam without having to outgun everyone. Not every Star Wars protagonist has to be an ace pilot.
Cassian hearing the news about Maarva felt very genuine. His moment on the beach in the setting sun was also a poignant foreshadowing.
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NakedMoleRat
Legendary Member
In the context that it was presented, I didn’t hate the saber whacking sticks. It makes sense that someone in his line of work would need them.
Wolfsburg
Master Member
Yeah, the lightsaber ship weapons (they really should've tried to make them look a little more visually different) weren't quite as cringy as I imagined although I would've rather done without them. I just never have liked beam type weapons in the context of SW for some reason, besides the DS I guess. Not sure why although it might be I associate them more with phasers or something. In the case of Luthen's ship, it seems like their usefulness would be pretty limited unless he's positioned just right, like he conveniently was in this episode apparently. In a different arrangement I guess they could be useful against massed fighters or large ships but one wonders why they aren't more common. I know Rebels had a prototype B-wing somehow built by hand by an old man that had Deathstar-like beam weapon capability and I wasn't a fan of that either.
I looooooved the arrestor cruiser and even the nod to Colin Cantwell ("Cantwell-class"). That was a great way to bring his designs to life and I'd love to see more stuff like this. I think it was originally going to appear in Solo but was cut? I did think it was odd that it was unshielded unless perhaps it was only ray-shielded? Seems like Luthen's missles caused some pretty significant damage fairly effortlessly.
I still geek out over the tech aesthetics and the retro displays and such. They just nail that stuff.
I found it kinda weird that the Narkina natives just let Cassian and Melshi take their quadjumper (a design first seen in TFA).
I like the lack of closure for Maarva's offscreen death and seeing some of that from Bee's perspective. I honestly thought the Empire was going to do something nasty to her but I'm fine with how it was handled. Subverted expectations in a positive way. Ferrixians mixing the ashes of their dead into bricks was a nice further bit of culture building (literally). Also kinda funny given the fan debate about brick buildings earlier in the season. Apparently it's part of their design culture!
I looooooved the arrestor cruiser and even the nod to Colin Cantwell ("Cantwell-class"). That was a great way to bring his designs to life and I'd love to see more stuff like this. I think it was originally going to appear in Solo but was cut? I did think it was odd that it was unshielded unless perhaps it was only ray-shielded? Seems like Luthen's missles caused some pretty significant damage fairly effortlessly.
I still geek out over the tech aesthetics and the retro displays and such. They just nail that stuff.
I found it kinda weird that the Narkina natives just let Cassian and Melshi take their quadjumper (a design first seen in TFA).
I like the lack of closure for Maarva's offscreen death and seeing some of that from Bee's perspective. I honestly thought the Empire was going to do something nasty to her but I'm fine with how it was handled. Subverted expectations in a positive way. Ferrixians mixing the ashes of their dead into bricks was a nice further bit of culture building (literally). Also kinda funny given the fan debate about brick buildings earlier in the season. Apparently it's part of their design culture!
Funny thing about the “Lightsaber Death Blossom” on Luthen’s ship…before I saw the series, and without context, it looked absurdly stupid.
Now that I know whose ship that is, and seeing it in action, well, I loved it.
Strange, I know.
Now that I know whose ship that is, and seeing it in action, well, I loved it.
Strange, I know.
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robstyle
Master Member
It's the difference between a leader with a plan VS a soldier/thug that only eyes the task at hand.
I've been holding onto this one in the hopes someone else would bring it up, Kino revealing he couldn't swim. Yet he would know what's ahead of him so why go all the way to the end just to stop. He already committed to his demise. Maybe his character will return next season when the next heist requires more brief underwater swimming and the secret group of rouges gets their PADI certification at Kino's Dive Stop and Bar.
HMSwolfe
Master Member
Honestly…yeah. It was a fun sequence.
Wolfsburg
Master Member
But I don't think he did know? As far as I could tell, they had no way of knowing what the outside world looked like. Pretty sure the transports that brought them in didn't have windows. I actually wouldn't have minded some poignant scene where he just accepts his fate and swan dives off the platform. I think Tony Gilroy or someone involved in the show recently made some statement essentially saying we shouldn't assume he's dead. Personally I think it had more impact if he was though.
