Star Trek: Strange New Worlds

[MattMunson]

Man I wish the internet existed when TOS aired. Can you imagine all the conversation around it? I think there's an argument to be made that Trek was "woke" before "woke" was a thing. First interracial kiss. OH MY! Look at all the non-whites on the bridge! GOOD LAWD! WIMMINZ ON THE BRIDGE OH NOES!!! Trek is not new at taking a ham-fisted approach to social issues.

I also like to keep in mind that HUGE SWATHS of TOS are borderline unwatchable. I think a lot of people watch that show with DEEPLY rose colored glasses on.
I'm also 100% on board with anyone not liking SNW for whatever reason they want, and they don't need to defend it. If you don't like the show because the floors are shiny, that's totally fine. Die on that hill. It doesn't matter to me.

Lastly: Discussing the show, be it good or bad, is its own form of entertainment. It's NOT A BAD THING if someone wants to trash talk a show and nothing more. it's not a bad thing if someone loves the show and wants to share that love. It's just a part of the experience. I don't think arguments or discussions should be gate-kept by people who don't want to hear your perspective because they think it's invalid.

 

[NakedMoleRat]

Point taken.

 

[Boba Debt]

This is getting weird

 

[Captain Dunsel]

To be candid, I personally don’t trust any of my own subjective tastes, opinions, or reactions until they have been validated by a third party. That’s the only reason why I post my thoughts, here.

I am grateful that various members of the Board recognize this need of mine and are generous with their time and go to great lengths to tell me when my initial personal thoughts, reactions, tastes, and opinions are not valid.

What some may call argumentative and combative statements, I regard as valuable life lessons learned.

I am, as ever, in the debt of these generous souls on this Board and their sage guidance.



In all seriousness, I enjoy the different takes others may have, and the debates that may arise. It’s all in fun, for me. After all, in the end, it’s just a TV show.

 

[Gregatron]

Man I wish the internet existed when TOS aired. Can you imagine all the conversation around it? I think there's an argument to be made that Trek was "woke" before "woke" was a thing. First interracial kiss. OH MY! Look at all the non-whites on the bridge! GOOD LAWD! WIMMINZ ON THE BRIDGE OH NOES!!! Trek is not new at taking a ham-fisted approach to social issues.

I also like to keep in mind that HUGE SWATHS of TOS are borderline unwatchable. I think a lot of people watch that show with DEEPLY rose colored glasses on.

I sincerely doubt that the show's massive cult following would have sprung into existence if the show had been bad or unwatchable. And, while it may well be exaggeration on his part, Roddenberry noted at various points that they never received letters complaining about the racial breakdown of the show's casting. The Internet may not have existed back then, but people would surely have made their voices heard if they'd had a problem with it.

Of course, TOS' matter-of-fact casting was never at the expensive of story and characters, and wasn't there to constantly bludgeon people with identity politics.


In point of fact, I have no great love for the third season, but every single episode still has some elements of value in it. It's like bad pizza--still pizza, just not anywhere near AS good. They were still honestly trying to tell compelling and thoughtful stories. Whereas both AbramsTREK and KurtzmanTREK are arguably built on dishonesty, stupidity, and division.


At the end of the day, I think it all comes down to ethos. There has been a fundamental shift in the morality and ethics of STAR TREK and how it's presented. At its core, TOS was about encountering strange or exotic lifeforms and situations, and our heroes staying intelligent and cool-headed to solve mysteries and problems. And, more often than not, they learned that those aliens and "monsters" COULD be communicated with and peace brokered. The impossible COULD be achieved, and common ground could be found.


Compare "Balance of Terror" to NuTREK 2009. In the former, both commanders regret being on opposing sides, and, after defeating the Romulans, Kirk offers the enemy ship aid (which the Romulan Commander refuses, destroying his ship in the name of his duty).

In the 2009 film, Nero is defeated, and NuKirk offers aid. Nero refuses, so the Abramsprise blows the Romulan ship away. Petty revenge instead of respect for life (by trying to save the Romulans) or even justice (by bringing them in alive for a fair trial).


"Let's find a way to work things out" vs. "Blow away the bad guys".


That's the vital difference.

 

[Treadwell]

There is no point to address his points.

Well I agree that if you like something, it isn't necessary to explain why.
But it also sure ain't necessary to denigrate people of opposing opinion, especially if they're doing so in a thread whose very purpose is discussion.
If you don't like his points, but don't want to address them, then you don't have anything to say, right? Then don't.

 

[Gimpdiggity]

Well I agree that if you like something, it isn't necessary to explain why.
But it also sure ain't necessary to denigrate people of opposing opinion, especially if they're doing so in a thread whose very purpose is discussion.
If you don't like his points, but don't want to address them, then you don't have anything to say, right? Then don't.

As I stated, his points are invalid as he has stated he isn’t watching, so they don’t need to be addressed.

Also, where is all of this “it isn’t necessary to denigrate people of opposing opinions” talk in the threads that are dominated by these negative opinions? I haven’t seen you quote the individual that refers to people that are enjoying the show as “apologists” and suggest that he not say anything. Or is it only okay to denigrate opinions in certain instances?

 

[robn1]

As I stated, his points are invalid as he has stated he isn’t watching, so they don’t need to be addressed.

Also, where is all of this “it isn’t necessary to denigrate people of opposing opinions” talk in the threads that are dominated by these negative opinions? I haven’t seen you quote the individual that refers to people that are enjoying the show as “apologists” and suggest that he not say anything. Or is it only okay to denigrate opinions in certain instances?

You are entitled to your own opinions, but not your own facts. Show us the post where I singled out a specific individual and called them an apologist. You can't because it didn't happen. You however singled out Gregatron specifically and called him a clown. And are you really equating apologist with clown?

 

[Gimpdiggity]

You are entitled to your own opinions, but not your own facts. Show us the post where I singled out a specific individual and called them an apologist. You can't because it didn't happen. You however singled out Gregatron specifically and called him a clown. And are you really equating apologist with clown?

Semantics. You know exactly who you were referring to as apologists. Besides, making a broad statement and claiming it’s not meant to insult one individual is ignorant, and cowardly.

 

[robn1]

Semantics. You know exactly who you were referring to as apologists. Besides, making a broad statement and claiming it’s not meant to insult one individual is ignorant, and cowardly.

More name calling, nice.

 

[Gregatron]

You are entitled to your own opinions, but not your own facts. Show us the post where I singled out a specific individual and called them an apologist. You can't because it didn't happen. You however singled out Gregatron specifically and called him a clown. And are you really equating apologist with clown?

"Clown", eh? Well, I wouldn't know, thanks to Mr. Ignore Button.

Ah, well. I'm not surprised by that behavior.

Note that I've never resorted to calling individuals here names or saying that they can't like what they like. Because I respect their rights to their opinions, as well as their right to be wrong. I can only speak for me and my own point of view.


Meanwhile, it seems all too common for fans of post-2009 TREK to resort to name-calling and saying that old-school fans aren't allowed to dislike what they dislike. Same for Disney STAR WARS fans. There seems to be some kind of ego-insecurity factor at work in terms of needing a confirmation bias for these terrible shows and movies.

I've reached a point in my life where I absolutely no longer care about critical reviews and fan opinions. I like what I like, and dislike what I dislike. I try to seek out that which I actually enjoy, rather that employing an insane, sunk-cost mentality and "consuming" anything and everything with the brand-name of things I love stamped on them.


From Day One, NuTREK has possessed an underlying smugness, arrogance, and mean-spiritedness in regards to the franchise it's inhabited the skin of. As a long-running franchise, STAR TREK has never been perfect, and has had both the highest of highs and the lowest of lows, but I would take the very worst efforts from 1966-2005 over anything produced since, because I know that the ethos and the good intentions were pretty much always there.

Since then...not so much. And there ain't gonna be no future doctors or engineers inspired by these shows, I can tell ya that.


I find the NuTREK replacement for that original STAR TREK ethos both insulting and even potentially dangerous, in terms of its messaging.



Or, I would, if anyone actually watched it in any appreciable numbers.

 

[Cephus]

Let’s not confuse diversity with Woke-ness.

When DS9 premiered there was a black commander in charge. Nowhere was it labeled “Look everyone, we have a black man in charge on this one!” As opposed to Discovery which stated “We just cast the first trans-actress as a new crew member!”

Which is a good point and one I was making recently about The Man Who Fell to Earth. The main cast is black. So what? They're really good at what they're doing. Nowhere did they make a big deal out of it. They just hired good actors to do the job. The difference with what Discovery is doing is that they're being jackasses about it. They're pushing an agenda, whereas lots of other shows, they're just making entertaining episodes. There's a right way to do it and a wrong way to do it and Discovery has done it wrong at every single turn.

Too bad they're not willing to learn anything.

 

[Picard102]

Another series of posts whinging about anything but the show by the usual suspects. (Despite saying they wouldn't be posting).

 

[robn1]

And yet another series of posts shaming people for not liking a TV show.

 

[Picard102]

Note that I've never resorted to calling individuals here names or saying that they can't like what they like.

"increasingly infantilized people who are likely on their phones while watching these shows"

"these shows are written by stupid, middle-aged children"

"All of these clowns"

"half-shaved, lobotomy/mentally-ill, “Look at me! I’m a SJW Feminist!” haircuts"

"People are free to watch what they like, but supporting it in any way just adds to the problem."

 

[Gimpdiggity]

"increasingly infantilized people who are likely on their phones while watching these shows"

"these shows are written by stupid, middle-aged children"

"All of these clowns"

"half-shaved, lobotomy/mentally-ill, “Look at me! I’m a SJW Feminist!” haircuts"

"People are free to watch what they like, but supporting it in any way just adds to the problem."

It’s like he doesn’t even know what it is that he’s been posting. Fascinating.

 

[Cephus]

And yet another series of posts shaming people for not liking a TV show.

Surely you're not surprised. Children are everywhere.

 

[Axlotl]

This thread got as stupid as Star Trek.

 

[Gimpdiggity]

This thread got as stupid as Star Trek.

 

[Paul Andrew]

There's something to be said for the amount of poopooing that goes on here regarding the newer iterations of venerable franchises.

Maybe it's just my own outlook, but if I don't like a thing I don't feel the need to pop up with that opinion more than once, let alone nearly every time someone says "hey I liked that".

The litany of bullet pointed lists of why folks hate these shows/movies has a very "debate me bro" vibe to me and man, screw that. I'm here to talk about the stuff I liked, not feel like I have to defend liking it to someone I only know as a 50x50 jpeg that seems to hate everything new.

Frankly, I have the same issue with YouTube. It figured out what shows and movies I liked then started filling my feed with "why Discovery sucks, why Picard is the worst, why Wheel of Time failed" etc. I came here to have a little fun talking about the properties I like, not get told ad infinitum why the things I like suck.