In "The Naked Now", Riker remembered an obscure detail from "The Naked Time" because he'd studied the logs of the previous ships called Enterprise. And he wasn't even the Captain of the Enterprise-D.
Star Trek: Strange New Worlds
- Thread starter Noeland
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In "The Naked Now", Riker remembered an obscure detail from "The Naked Time" because he'd studied the logs of the previous ships called Enterprise. And he wasn't even the Captain of the Enterprise-D.
Cephus
Master Member
All of the ships on the front lines, including the Enterprise, ought to be required reading at the academy. I know Kirk is too old for that, but he still ought to be expected to keep up on what people are finding out there, as a matter of course.
Kirk knew very specific details about historical events on Earth, like the gunfight at the O.K. Corral, to say nothing of all the knowledge he displayed during TOS regarding current events and fleet-wide tactical situations and starship missions.
It’s not a stretch to say he’d be keeping up on current AND past events which could have import for the security of the Federation.
Unless everyone who knew about the Gorn were…ahem…sworn to secrecy. Because that trick worked so well for Mikey Spock and Discovery.
Watch them bring in Q and just woosh away all knowledge of the race; whatever they knew of them will be suddenly gorn, and folks will be far more idiotic for the experience.
Also: if Gorn spit is how they reproduce, why has no one invented gorn sunscreen to block the damned stuff?! Or a portable force-field unit like in TAS? Or even face shields?
Additionally: La'an was an idiot to toss her phaser like she did.
Kirk was described as "a stack of book with legs"; he loved to read. Him not knowing is just nonsense.
Also: if Gorn spit is how they reproduce, why has no one invented gorn sunscreen to block the damned stuff?! Or a portable force-field unit like in TAS? Or even face shields?
Additionally: La'an was an idiot to toss her phaser like she did.
Kirk was described as "a stack of book with legs"; he loved to read. Him not knowing is just nonsense.
Here today, Gorn tomorrow.
Also, this again raises an important point: In TOS, the Federation actually functioned, and was not an Evil Authority to be questioned and rebelled against, and Kirk made his career by working hard and becoming an educated and intelligent person. Flash-forward to modern TREK, and Abrams’ version is a reckless rulebreaker who jumps from cadet to Captain in a matter of days, gets into barfights, cheats, etc.
Modern TREK does not promote the idea of getting ahead by working hard and being the best you can be.
Cephus
Master Member
Of course not, the people who are making it are inherently lazy, as are the audience they're making it for. Look at how much they're stealing without giving credit!
The idea is being peddled that saying the cool thing and making an emotional outburst spewing your personal opinion while outshouting everyone makes you right. This opens the door to scammers and frauds, or, at the very least, highly opinionated idiots running everything. It is basic reality TV writer's methods but with an eye on hijacking classic TV and movie storylines. This way they get a free built in audience and they can peddle the drama hype right up til they lose the entire audience. The Federation has an Academy so people are trained not to fall for false hype and emotional propaganda leadership, so they don't fall back into factions and old party line hatred. Allowing the loudest and most emotionally charged person to take charge is the opposite of Academy teaching and bases all decisions on hunches and inspires a succession of insurrections. By no small coincidence, the Star Wars galaxy has fallen to this same lie. Training.... these writers care nothing for training, their characters deride anyone who shows any experience or education as though they are old codgers, stuck in their ways. It is a common theme in movies now, the inexperienced and uneducated somehow being destined for success by the shear belief that they are always right. After you get over 20 years old you realize that every teenager who ever breathed air wishes deep down that this was true and believes that they, out of billions of people, are the Chosen One who spews amazing wisdom. It is just a fact of life, emotional, theatrical leaders will get a lot of people killed.... Custer, bro, Custer.
It’s a strange time we live in…
On the one hand, I am seeing some of the best TV ever with series like Severance, Handmaid’s Tale, and Ozark….on the other hand, I am seeing a lot of mediocre crap that really just constitutes content filler and reflects minimal effort and a lack of unique creativity being covered up with some of the ugliest parts of our current society.
On the one hand, I am seeing some of the best TV ever with series like Severance, Handmaid’s Tale, and Ozark….on the other hand, I am seeing a lot of mediocre crap that really just constitutes content filler and reflects minimal effort and a lack of unique creativity being covered up with some of the ugliest parts of our current society.
Yep. As I’ve noted in the past, as much as I love Nick Meyer and THE WRATH OF KHAN, the whole bit with Kirk being revealed to have reprogrammed the Kobayashi Maru simulation set a precedent for where things would go. No longer was he the “stack of books with legs” who worked hard to get where he did. I totally get what Meyer was doing—examining Kirk’s almost superhuman skill to think outside the box and snatch victory from defeat, then later on humble him with the death of Spock—but, in retrospect, it was probably a mistake. Because lesser minds got the wrong ideas from it.
And, of course, the elderly Obi-Wan was the wise mentor in STAR WARS (and a person to look up to and admire, because of his experience and wisdom), and Luke went through trials and tribulations—and made serious mistakes—in order to grow and change and become a better person. Flashforward to now, and Jake Skywalker is a pathetic coward and failure who makes his Mary Sue replacement look good by comparison, and Obi-Wan is a pathetic coward and failure who can’t even do the one job he had—watching over Luke.
In other words, “It was the best of times, it was the worst of times.”.
…also, various sources—using the official/Okuda timeline—have stated that Kirk (born 2233) graduated from the Academy around 2254, circa “The Cage”. A little Google-fu tells me that SNW is set around 2259, five years after that, and some six years before “Where No Man Has Gone Before” (2265). Of course, the Okuda timeline has numerous problems, but that’s a different discussion.
While it was never explicitly confirmed either way, people generally assume that the Enterprise was Kirk’s first command (although TMOST says different). So, you’re telling me that Kirk made Captain within five years of graduating, in his mid-20s? Not unlike AbramsKirk?
While never stated onscreen, the lore has it that Kirk was the youngest Captain in the fleet, and that was when he was in his early 30s, while commanding the Enterprise. I could more realistically see him knocking about for nearly a decade aboard the Republic and Farragut, getting command of a smaller ship (as per TMOST), then moving up to the Enterprise shortly thereafter. Or just getting the Enterprise as his first command, but only after a full decade or so of service out of the Academy.
But, no. In NuTREK, they had the keys to the biggest and best cars to the kids fresh out of school, it seems.
While it was never explicitly confirmed either way, people generally assume that the Enterprise was Kirk’s first command (although TMOST says different). So, you’re telling me that Kirk made Captain within five years of graduating, in his mid-20s? Not unlike AbramsKirk?
While never stated onscreen, the lore has it that Kirk was the youngest Captain in the fleet, and that was when he was in his early 30s, while commanding the Enterprise. I could more realistically see him knocking about for nearly a decade aboard the Republic and Farragut, getting command of a smaller ship (as per TMOST), then moving up to the Enterprise shortly thereafter. Or just getting the Enterprise as his first command, but only after a full decade or so of service out of the Academy.
But, no. In NuTREK, they had the keys to the biggest and best cars to the kids fresh out of school, it seems.
Lightning
Master Member
No. The Captain Kirk we met this week was a Captain in 2266. We don't know when he was promoted yet.
NakedMoleRat
Master Member
The timeline is still wrong, he’s a captain at 33 and Balance of Terror happens at least a year early.
I can't figure out how they wrote Kirk's dad as the ultimate old school Trek hero, very well rounded, brave and decisive but not foolhardy. A true hero and leader in line with classic Trek. Then threw out any form of realism and brought us MTV's Real World as played out on the bridge of the Enterprise. I loved the new reboot when I first saw it and it is funny on a level never before seen but it doesn't hold up to any real scrutiny for realism. Even if rebooting seemed like a great excuse to ignore canon, you can't act like a reboot at a very specific year also negates any history prior to that date. The Universe doesn't just go bizzaro in one go.
Mottrex
Sr Member
It's ET
Subtract cute Alien
Add Angsty Demon
Mix John Carpenter soundtrack..
Equals Vintage feels
Exactly: the whole purpose of training is that it becomes the default reaction rather than a person's emotions or even "instinct" (which can get you or someone else killed in life or death situations). Training is supposed to replace the impulse with a measured set of how to do things, instead of flailing about. Granted, talent and "thinking outside the box" have their place; but being able to think independently comes from not falling into "party lines" and other suck stuff. Emotions were never meant to be the sole guiding item in a person's retinue; intellect, experience and common sense were also supposed to guide them in acting and reacting.
Also, training has two other components: discipline and consequences. While it is true Kirk would sometimes bend rules (and even break them), far more often than not, he stood for the order and discipline that Starfleet and the Federation embodied. Nowadays, folks don't want discipline, because it brings consequences. And if you notice, everything that they do now is about not having to endure the consequences of their actions. This extends to their "heroes" (especially the ones that those of this generation write for TV): they don't want their "chosen ones" to suffer consequences either. In TOS, Kirk had to endure the consequences of not just his own actions, but those of crew under his command as well. Examples: running roughshod over Admiral Nogura and Captain Will Decker to get the Enterprise back; his strained relationship with Dr. Carol Marcus, and his son by her, David; his failure to go back and check on Khan's colony; his "senile moment" when he goofed and didn't raise shields before approaching the hijacked Reliant; Stealing the Enterprise to rescue Spock and having to risk using her in a battle they were ill-suited to fight.
Those are just the ones I can think of at the moment (haven't slept in about 26 hours, so getting loopy here), but I think you get the idea. Without consequences (both good and bad), our actions mean nothing, and we learn nothing. We end up not being shaped, and thinking our way must be "the right one". You see that now all over, and how it affects Strange New Hair.
Setting aside the fact that Abrams was clearly ripping off STAR WARS by having NuKirk want to became a Captain like his father before him, I’m not of fan of it at all. And now his brother is somehow in the service, too, rather than being the civilian scientist we saw in TOS.
I appreciate the verisimilitude that TOS brought to the table in terms of our heroes’ friends and families having other jobs and other types of lives, instead of everyone just being in Starfleet.
Lightning
Master Member
Balance of Terror was definitely considered to have happened in 2266 before SNW said so.
NakedMoleRat
Master Member
At least they gave him a mustache.
asalaw
Sr Member
A bit reductive, but essentially correct—nostalgia is definitely an essential part of the secret sauce. But so are compelling characters and memorable relationships, solid plotting, and a very well-written heroine, especially this season.It's ET
Subtract cute Alien
Add Angsty Demon
Mix John Carpenter soundtrack..
Equals Vintage feels
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