patrickivan
Sr Member
How does a fat white man in a dress cram into that Space Suit?! His figure must be incredibly deceiving.
Star Trek: Discovery (2017)
- Thread starter mkstewartesq
- Start date
It’s the “retconned version”
The best concepts in the Trek universe find their way to Discovery, like a fly to a cow patty.
Tilly has secretly been doing the chant in her quarters and conspiring, via a clandestine “pinky swear”, to “end all sentient life” with the Gorgon.
To combat this vile source of evil, Discovery will deploy its most deadly of weapons; an epic Michael monologue, directed at the Gorgon via the magical deus ex machina spore network.
Next season, stayed tuned for the return of Sybok. “Share your pain with me...”
Just having some fun.
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patrickivan
Sr Member
It’s the “retconned version”
The best concepts in the Trek universe find their way to Discovery, like a fly to a cow patty.
Tilly has secretly been doing the chant in her quarters and conspiring, via a clandestine “pinky swear”, to “end all sentient life” with the Gorgon.
To combat this vile source of evil, Discovery will deploy its most deadly of weapons; an epic Michael monologue, directed at the Gorgon via the magical deus ex machina spore network.
Next season, stayed tuned for the return of Sybok. “Share your pain with me...”
Just having some fun.
Oh- I look forward to S3 battles of monologues between Sybok and Michael. She'll deliver her speech with such passion, that Sybok will be lulled into a long coma. Then she'll go all doe eyed, head ****** to the side, on the verge of tears, mesmerised by Sybok's sweet quasi mind bending truths.
13 episodes!
.
Noeland
Master Member
I think this weeks episode would have had a lot more emotional punch if they'd ever showed a single moment of the cyborg character interacting with all her "friends" before. Have they? In 2 seasons I don't remember a single scene.
I'm also assuming that control had made it unable for Discovery to beam those characters back? Because they don't need an airlock when they can just beam her out of that room, and into space.
I'm also assuming that control had made it unable for Discovery to beam those characters back? Because they don't need an airlock when they can just beam her out of that room, and into space.
patrickivan
Sr Member
I figured out the mystery of the Red Angel and why Burnham is SOOOOO important to the universe!
She was the chosen one.
The head of future S.31, unbeknownst to the Federation is evil. Like super evil.
He traveled back in time, and using future micro beaming technology, impregnated Burnham's mother with future juice from the miceenian universe, allowing the offspring to channel incredible powers of long winded nonsensical pontification.
Knowing the future, the evil S.31 works to manipulate events to fulfil his prophecy.
Burnham, the chosen one, is struggling with her history of who her parents REALLY are, and can't reconcile that with what's she's learning about the future. There is great conflict in her.
The question is, will she use her powers of Pontification to save the entire universe and all unknown mulit-verses in the greatest threat in all of time and space? Or will she succumb to the dark side, evil, and be the puppet, instrumental in the doom of everything we know?
It seems that the Red Angel (her mother and greatest star pilot in all that has come and will ever be in time) will be what either teaches her what she needs, or pushes her to what the evil head of future S.31 is planning!
This is finally getting good!
She was the chosen one.
The head of future S.31, unbeknownst to the Federation is evil. Like super evil.
He traveled back in time, and using future micro beaming technology, impregnated Burnham's mother with future juice from the miceenian universe, allowing the offspring to channel incredible powers of long winded nonsensical pontification.
Knowing the future, the evil S.31 works to manipulate events to fulfil his prophecy.
Burnham, the chosen one, is struggling with her history of who her parents REALLY are, and can't reconcile that with what's she's learning about the future. There is great conflict in her.
The question is, will she use her powers of Pontification to save the entire universe and all unknown mulit-verses in the greatest threat in all of time and space? Or will she succumb to the dark side, evil, and be the puppet, instrumental in the doom of everything we know?
It seems that the Red Angel (her mother and greatest star pilot in all that has come and will ever be in time) will be what either teaches her what she needs, or pushes her to what the evil head of future S.31 is planning!
This is finally getting good!
Noeland
Master Member
So Section 31 knew EXACTLY what the red angel was all along. Great. Not lazy writing at all. This thing has been tormenting Spock his entire life until he checks himself into a psychiatic facility. The entire crew of Discovery is agonizing over what this could be. But we have the diagrams right here. We've known what this was for a LONG TIME. Oh, your parents were involved too!!
Groan.
I have to admit, I was not expecting the reveal of the red angel to be anything special anyhow, but I was hoping I was wrong about it being Michael. As soon as Tilly says "It's you Michael" I thought "Oh, it won't be now." And Spock, the man who just cleared his own name because he doesn't kill people pulls a phaser on the people he's working with and threatens them. Yeah.
Way to raise the bar guys. I did laugh during the "what just happened" scene though.
Groan.
I have to admit, I was not expecting the reveal of the red angel to be anything special anyhow, but I was hoping I was wrong about it being Michael. As soon as Tilly says "It's you Michael" I thought "Oh, it won't be now." And Spock, the man who just cleared his own name because he doesn't kill people pulls a phaser on the people he's working with and threatens them. Yeah.
Way to raise the bar guys. I did laugh during the "what just happened" scene though.
kalkamel
Master Member
Papi! Lol
On that note, couldn't the costume designers have at least given Culber a more futuristic off duty attire than a dinner jacket and a black shirt?
An episode way out of balance. Characters having a heart to heart: good. Having like six heart to heart scenes in a row: bad.
Characters having discussions about their love lives in Engineering in the middle of a crisis: REALLY BAD.
Tilly entering scenes interrupting people and being a total spaz not once, but twice: REALLY REALLY BAD.
Characters having discussions about their love lives in Engineering in the middle of a crisis: REALLY BAD.
Tilly entering scenes interrupting people and being a total spaz not once, but twice: REALLY REALLY BAD.
kalkamel
Master Member
patrickivan
Sr Member
This last episode was an incredible disappointment. I have no issue with the little funeral for the character with no background stories to make us care. It was a little long winded and the singing was completely un-necessary.
The odd PHTORP launcher out of the shuttle bay wouldn't be my first choice, but that's a nitpick. And it may be just a probe launcher or something less critical than a PHOTORP launcher. Whatever.
Regardless, we have very few episodes and this one was spent pigeon holing in some emotional caring stuff about people we haven't really had any interesting stories about. Culbert is the only character in this episode I find interesting. Get rid of Stamets. Culbert is a character with far better potential I think.
That said, almost the entire episode was boring emotional stuff that seemed so incredibly forced. Then we get the last few minutes where we find out who the Red Angel is, and it's over. I also find the entire season plot to be incredibly weak, but at least the stories have been decent for the most part. There are a couple that were horrendous, but that's not the point here.
Again, they are making a season with very few episodes to move their main story arc along, and it seems like it's mostly long winded filler. If that's going to be the case where they just waste time with nonsense, then at least write more stand alone episodes that have NOTHING to do with the arc, and make them actually about discovering things in a trek through the stars.
A useless filler episode far inferior to the prior 2 or 3. I hope the next one gets things going again.
AND for the love of ******, what kind of Star Trek has an officer strike a superior command officer TWICE, followed by a threat, and get away with it completely???? That was a complete loud of horse **** dumped onto Biff.
The odd PHTORP launcher out of the shuttle bay wouldn't be my first choice, but that's a nitpick. And it may be just a probe launcher or something less critical than a PHOTORP launcher. Whatever.
Regardless, we have very few episodes and this one was spent pigeon holing in some emotional caring stuff about people we haven't really had any interesting stories about. Culbert is the only character in this episode I find interesting. Get rid of Stamets. Culbert is a character with far better potential I think.
That said, almost the entire episode was boring emotional stuff that seemed so incredibly forced. Then we get the last few minutes where we find out who the Red Angel is, and it's over. I also find the entire season plot to be incredibly weak, but at least the stories have been decent for the most part. There are a couple that were horrendous, but that's not the point here.
Again, they are making a season with very few episodes to move their main story arc along, and it seems like it's mostly long winded filler. If that's going to be the case where they just waste time with nonsense, then at least write more stand alone episodes that have NOTHING to do with the arc, and make them actually about discovering things in a trek through the stars.
A useless filler episode far inferior to the prior 2 or 3. I hope the next one gets things going again.
AND for the love of ******, what kind of Star Trek has an officer strike a superior command officer TWICE, followed by a threat, and get away with it completely???? That was a complete loud of horse **** dumped onto Biff.
The only solution to the Red Angel crisis is to have Burnam go back and stop the suit from being invented by her parents.
Timeline resets with no Klingon attack and MB never meeting spocks family.
We get a retooled show with only Pike and crew.
Bring it.... please bring it... pretty please.
Timeline resets with no Klingon attack and MB never meeting spocks family.
We get a retooled show with only Pike and crew.
Bring it.... please bring it... pretty please.
My most favorite part was when the chief medical officer wandered around the ship in his 20th century off duty clothes—including interrupting the activity in engineering—looking for the admiral until he finally found his way into her quarters (“They said you might be here...”) and requested that she counsel him. I liked this because, that’s, “like”, what I also totally do at work...I also wander the hallways looking for the highest-ranking person at work, interrupt meetings, and eventually wander into the highest ranking person’s office, and request that they counsel me about my personal life. I am sure that admirals and generals, today, make themselves “totally available” to drop everything and counsel random lower-ranking officers, who are not their directs, regarding their personal lives. This is completely understandable and relatable storytelling.
I give this one:
- Two Discovery Pinky Swears out of Five.
Sorry Michael...
I give this one:
- Two Discovery Pinky Swears out of Five.
Sorry Michael...
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I gave up watching this about five weeks ago, mainly because I finally managed to watch two sci fi series back to back that it simply couldn't compete with. Both season 3 of "The Expanse" and season 1 of " The Orville" were great entertainment (whilst still being miles apart in terms of tone) and I thoroughly enjoyed almost every episode, finding very little to complain about.
Unlike this.
I'd give anything to see Burnam go up against the likes of either Naomi Nagata/Bobbi Draper or Cmdr Kelly Grayson/ Alara. They would simply wipe the bloody floor with her.
I shall go back and catch up watching these now. Pray for me, or at least for my sanity!!
Unlike this.
I'd give anything to see Burnam go up against the likes of either Naomi Nagata/Bobbi Draper or Cmdr Kelly Grayson/ Alara. They would simply wipe the bloody floor with her.
I shall go back and catch up watching these now. Pray for me, or at least for my sanity!!
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Hammer3246
Sr Member
I can't wait for the next episode! Totally enjoying Disco.
Bloop
Sr Member
I just stopped by to say this:
TIME CRYSTALS?!?
That's some lazy writing right there. Apparently these "time crystals" exist in the ST universe, and make time travel possible, and are available to buy with enough money.
At least Doc Brown only needed plutonium to power his time machine, and had to trick some Libyan terrorists to get it.
TIME CRYSTALS?!?
That's some lazy writing right there. Apparently these "time crystals" exist in the ST universe, and make time travel possible, and are available to buy with enough money.
At least Doc Brown only needed plutonium to power his time machine, and had to trick some Libyan terrorists to get it.
patrickivan
Sr Member
Well ya.... It used to be that Time Travel (never a long term storyline fav of mine), used to involve Star Ships with massive amounts of energy/ power being employed.
Now, er, then, you can, could, do it with a skin tight suit and a crystal... Because the details don't matter anymore. Just like Ariam's big death. Everyone was shown to be so distraught over this character that we never knew. But it doesn't matter, because the story as they write it now, doesn't care for the details.
Writer 1: "Hey- we want to show things that we never saw on Star Trek. All the minutia, like crying at funerals, and long winded shaky camera conversations. Let's show how REAL people talk and act."
Writer 2 "Great idea! Oh, I know, we NEVER saw anyone use the washroom in Star Trek. I mean, reaaaallly use it, like deuces time. What's up with that? Let's show Tilly taking a dump! That'll put the show on it's head. The viewers will love it!"
Writer 1 " Ho-LY ****! You are the best writer, EVER! If I may add to that? Let's show her running out of TP! What do you do? What would TILLY do in STAR TREK?"
Writer 2 "Good Lord, you are ******* awesome! Well, she'd swear. Let's get more pointless swearing on the show. She'd sure as hell contact a high ranking officer for help. So Suru or Pike for sure. And pinky swear that he won't tell anyone what happened."
Writer 1 "Right, but then Burnham finds out. She should spend about 2 minutes describing how hurt she is that Tilly didn't call her for help. Get her eyes to well up and all that good stuff. It shows such REAL emotion. Throw in some quotes from Alice in Wonderland again- I think people NEED that. To know where she's coming from."
Writer 2 "****, this stuff practically writes itself!"
Writer 1 "Right? Now let's put some Star Trek into the show"
Writer 2 "some Star- what?"
Bloop
Sr Member
I feel like a better title for this would be "Star Trek: Retcon." Not only have they been retconning the established history of Star Trek, they've retconned their own show as they go. For example, Lt. Cmdr. Airiam was never really established as a character, really just a visual, so they added all her backstory in the same episode they killed her off. She never showed any emotion (not they they ever really gave her many lines or opportunity to do so), but all of a sudden, we find out she's not only capable of emotion, and had close relationships with the other crew, but a human (humanoid?) that had extensive cybernetics to enable her to live. Apparently, it was established in episode 3 of "After Trek" (which I've never watched) that she was an "augmented alien." I still think they originally intended her to be an android, but the fact that Data was already established as the first android in Starfleet, they decided to change her backstory to avoid conflict.
Other retconning:
Klingons - Changed their look (again). This isn't out of the ordinary in Trek; obviously, the Klingons and other races have been changed visually in the past. But ST:Ent tried to offer a reason why they looked radically different than in the TOS episodes. STD has thrown that reasoning away and offered no explination as to why. Oh, they did give them hair and beards this season, though, so they retconned their own Klingons in that regard. They also changed a lot of the Klingon traits, especially how they hold "honor" above all else. They just seem unnecessarily savage. I still blame Game of Thrones for its influence on the first season of STD (or rather the execs who wanted to make Trek into GoT).
By the way, the fact that Ash Tyler/Voq is an official member of Section 31, and thereby an official member of Starfleet, doesn't that mean Worf is no longer the first Klingon in Starfleet? I guess they can say Ash's Klingon-ness is a secret to most, so it doesn't really count.
Spock - Obviously a HUGE retcon to his character. Now he has a human foster sister that he grew up with and shaped his character, yet we never heard of her before STD. By the way, where was Sybok in all this? Wasn't Spock's half brother raised in the family too? ST V was a crap film, but it's still cannon as far as I know (I hated the retcon of Sybok then, as I do the adding of Michael Burnham to Sarek's clan).
Saru - He, and his race, get a retcon this season too. Now he's not the fearful, death-smelling alien he once was, but a confident killing machine. Not sure what to make of this, other than maybe the production crew didn't want to have to CGI those danged ganglia in all the time. Seriously though, they probably realized it doesn't serve much in storytelling to have a character who constantly has a physical reaction to danger.
Enterprise - Captain Pike gets reassigned to Captain the USS Discovery, which I don't believe was ever established before. There's oviously a lot of retconned stuff regarding the technology of TOS and Pike's Enterprise, but I take some of it with a grain of salt. I do think there's a way to upgrade the visuals and tech of the TOS era in moderation without going full 21st century sci-fi future tech visuals. Which leads me to the tech in STD...
Technology - So now we have the spore drive, enabling instantaneous access to anywhere in the universe (which kind of invalidates TOS's Five Year Mission "to boldly go where no man has gone before"). I will say that Star Trek hasn't always seemed consistent about the speed at which their ships can travel and how long (or short) it can take for a starship to get to any place in the universe (it seemed like earth was always just a few hours away, no matter where any of the ships were - except Voyager, of course).
You also have Section 31 creating a personal time travel suit, using time crystals (ugh), and other technology like communicator badges well before the TNG era. The tech of the com badges don't bother me as much, since we actually have the technology to do that now, in real life. It only bothers me that they made it a bigger deal by pointing out how Section 31 has those cool communicator badges wile Discovery and the rest of the fleet doesn't. It doesn't really serve any purpose in storytelling, and they've offered no reason as to why it really matters.
I'm sure there's more retconned stuff to get into, but I'm tired of typing for now.
Other retconning:
Klingons - Changed their look (again). This isn't out of the ordinary in Trek; obviously, the Klingons and other races have been changed visually in the past. But ST:Ent tried to offer a reason why they looked radically different than in the TOS episodes. STD has thrown that reasoning away and offered no explination as to why. Oh, they did give them hair and beards this season, though, so they retconned their own Klingons in that regard. They also changed a lot of the Klingon traits, especially how they hold "honor" above all else. They just seem unnecessarily savage. I still blame Game of Thrones for its influence on the first season of STD (or rather the execs who wanted to make Trek into GoT).
By the way, the fact that Ash Tyler/Voq is an official member of Section 31, and thereby an official member of Starfleet, doesn't that mean Worf is no longer the first Klingon in Starfleet? I guess they can say Ash's Klingon-ness is a secret to most, so it doesn't really count.
Spock - Obviously a HUGE retcon to his character. Now he has a human foster sister that he grew up with and shaped his character, yet we never heard of her before STD. By the way, where was Sybok in all this? Wasn't Spock's half brother raised in the family too? ST V was a crap film, but it's still cannon as far as I know (I hated the retcon of Sybok then, as I do the adding of Michael Burnham to Sarek's clan).
Saru - He, and his race, get a retcon this season too. Now he's not the fearful, death-smelling alien he once was, but a confident killing machine. Not sure what to make of this, other than maybe the production crew didn't want to have to CGI those danged ganglia in all the time. Seriously though, they probably realized it doesn't serve much in storytelling to have a character who constantly has a physical reaction to danger.
Enterprise - Captain Pike gets reassigned to Captain the USS Discovery, which I don't believe was ever established before. There's oviously a lot of retconned stuff regarding the technology of TOS and Pike's Enterprise, but I take some of it with a grain of salt. I do think there's a way to upgrade the visuals and tech of the TOS era in moderation without going full 21st century sci-fi future tech visuals. Which leads me to the tech in STD...
Technology - So now we have the spore drive, enabling instantaneous access to anywhere in the universe (which kind of invalidates TOS's Five Year Mission "to boldly go where no man has gone before"). I will say that Star Trek hasn't always seemed consistent about the speed at which their ships can travel and how long (or short) it can take for a starship to get to any place in the universe (it seemed like earth was always just a few hours away, no matter where any of the ships were - except Voyager, of course).
You also have Section 31 creating a personal time travel suit, using time crystals (ugh), and other technology like communicator badges well before the TNG era. The tech of the com badges don't bother me as much, since we actually have the technology to do that now, in real life. It only bothers me that they made it a bigger deal by pointing out how Section 31 has those cool communicator badges wile Discovery and the rest of the fleet doesn't. It doesn't really serve any purpose in storytelling, and they've offered no reason as to why it really matters.
I'm sure there's more retconned stuff to get into, but I'm tired of typing for now.
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