If he thinks this statement holds any water, "Therefore they ARE Graflex Flash Gun's because they are that STYLE," then I have a Shelby Cobra to sell him. And he should be happy to get a modern Cobra for 500 grand because some people pay much more for vintage ones.
His argument basically equates all reproductions of antiques with their authentic counterparts. I can buy a copy of Action comics #1 produced in 1988 for a dollar, but if I try to sell is for a million using the argument that it's the same thing as it's vintage counterpart printed in 1938 because it's the same STYLE, I'd go to jail.
I don't think it's worth continuing to talk to him. He's just trying to wear you down. Open the case with e-bay and paypal. He's probably just trying to put you off and keep you talking until you pass the date by which you can open a case. If you don't open a case, soon, you'll pass that point and be at his mercy.
His argument basically equates all reproductions of antiques with their authentic counterparts. I can buy a copy of Action comics #1 produced in 1988 for a dollar, but if I try to sell is for a million using the argument that it's the same thing as it's vintage counterpart printed in 1938 because it's the same STYLE, I'd go to jail.
I don't think it's worth continuing to talk to him. He's just trying to wear you down. Open the case with e-bay and paypal. He's probably just trying to put you off and keep you talking until you pass the date by which you can open a case. If you don't open a case, soon, you'll pass that point and be at his mercy.
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Open the case with e-bay. Send them a link to Park's website, where you can buy replica graflexes for $150.00. Then send them a link to auctions for vintage graflexes which are currently listing from 4-500$ and it should be pretty obvious to them what kind of scam this guy is running.
Dan
Dan
I argued that selling a watch with an original band and a replica watch is still a replica, he argues
"I am honest and the wording does make all the difference. PRECISE WORDING...
It IS a GRAFLEX. But maybe not a "vintage" Graflex which again I did not say.
You know what the word "vintage" and "genuine" and "authentic" have abosulutely nothing
to do with the Name Brand of something right?
You can buy knock off Niki Shoes from Hong King - they are STILL Niki Shoes just not "authentic"
Niki Shoes. But they still have the Niki logo and everything but they just come from somewhere else.
Let's be clear on the subject - the words "authentic", "genuine" or "vintage" were never used
in the description so don't mix up the word GRAFLEX with something else... the word "Graflex" in itself
does not mean that it is "genuine" or "authentic" or "vintage".
All the word "GRAFLEX" means is that it is that type of Flash Gun - which it is.
Even that company knows that - It's STILL a Graflex - just not a "vintage" Graflex.
And I NEVER said it was. You only assumed that.
Without EVER asking me a single question.
And actually it IS a "vintage" Graflex just maybe not a "complete" one.
See, words ARE important, so is asking questions BEFORE you bid."
and:
"In response to your recent message about the Parks people - just because that's what the "FANS" call it
does not make it a "PARKS GRAFLEX" but you see - the words "GRAFLEX" is STILL there!
So yes even if it is a Parks Graflex it is still a Graflex - and it is actually "Vintage" as well just perhaps
not completely... If it is a Parks and I don't know because it does not say it - it only says "GRAFLEX".
So please stop using your own terminology or teminolgy you have "heard" from other people
and call it EXACTLY what it says it is - A GRAFLEX 3 Cell.
Because that is what it is. No matter what YOU call it - it IS a Graflex 3 Cell. Period.
No matter WHEN it was made or WHO made it. So stop using the word Graflex as if that in itself means
its authentic. Because the word Graflex only means that it say so on the item and it works
with that style of camera. Period.
1. Does it hold 3 Batteries? Answer: YES -so therefore it is a 3 Cell.
2. Can you attach it to a Graflex Camera? Answer: Yes you can.
3. Does it say Graflex on it? Answer: Yes it does.
4. Does it say any other brand or company on it? Answer: No, it doesn't.
So logically and reality wise IT IS A GRAFLEX 3 CELL BATTERY TUBE. Authentic of Not is irrelevant.
And at least some parts of it I believe are authentic anyway...
So the description was accurate and trying to refute that logic or that reality just means you
are trying to argue with me for no reason because you didn't take the time to ask me
any specific questions and you just assumed things.
Which is not my fault. "
and then:
"I have no idea what exactly Parks or anyone else makes, if it DOES NOT SAY "PARKS GRAFLEX" on it then who knows who made it?
That's just simply what you and your friends probably call what they make not the actual name of the items.
If you go to that link I sent you it's NOT called a "Parks Graflex" at all - it's just called a "Graflex". Period.
And nowhere on the Flash Tube does it say "Parks Graflex" or "Parks" anything else....
ALL IT SAYS IS - "GRAFLEX" and that's it. Period. If it says anything at all...
And what you have, I believe that is EXCATLY what it says - and says only - "Graflex".
Because I know for a FACT it does not say "Parks Graflex" anywhere on the flash tube that you
have or on any other Graflex 3 Cell that I have sold. "
I have been arguing back and forth with him all morning, he always will take specific words in his description and try to argue that they don't mean that he was selling an actual "Graflex 3 Cell" and that a parks is a graflex three cell because that is what it is called on their website.
How exactly do I report him? Ebay's customer support pages have become almost an FAQ and the only way to contact ebay is that "I haven't received the item yet" or "I received an item that does not match the seller's description" which leads only to "i want to return an item"
"I am honest and the wording does make all the difference. PRECISE WORDING...
It IS a GRAFLEX. But maybe not a "vintage" Graflex which again I did not say.
You know what the word "vintage" and "genuine" and "authentic" have abosulutely nothing
to do with the Name Brand of something right?
You can buy knock off Niki Shoes from Hong King - they are STILL Niki Shoes just not "authentic"
Niki Shoes. But they still have the Niki logo and everything but they just come from somewhere else.
Let's be clear on the subject - the words "authentic", "genuine" or "vintage" were never used
in the description so don't mix up the word GRAFLEX with something else... the word "Graflex" in itself
does not mean that it is "genuine" or "authentic" or "vintage".
All the word "GRAFLEX" means is that it is that type of Flash Gun - which it is.
Even that company knows that - It's STILL a Graflex - just not a "vintage" Graflex.
And I NEVER said it was. You only assumed that.
Without EVER asking me a single question.
And actually it IS a "vintage" Graflex just maybe not a "complete" one.
See, words ARE important, so is asking questions BEFORE you bid."
and:
"In response to your recent message about the Parks people - just because that's what the "FANS" call it
does not make it a "PARKS GRAFLEX" but you see - the words "GRAFLEX" is STILL there!
So yes even if it is a Parks Graflex it is still a Graflex - and it is actually "Vintage" as well just perhaps
not completely... If it is a Parks and I don't know because it does not say it - it only says "GRAFLEX".
So please stop using your own terminology or teminolgy you have "heard" from other people
and call it EXACTLY what it says it is - A GRAFLEX 3 Cell.
Because that is what it is. No matter what YOU call it - it IS a Graflex 3 Cell. Period.
No matter WHEN it was made or WHO made it. So stop using the word Graflex as if that in itself means
its authentic. Because the word Graflex only means that it say so on the item and it works
with that style of camera. Period.
1. Does it hold 3 Batteries? Answer: YES -so therefore it is a 3 Cell.
2. Can you attach it to a Graflex Camera? Answer: Yes you can.
3. Does it say Graflex on it? Answer: Yes it does.
4. Does it say any other brand or company on it? Answer: No, it doesn't.
So logically and reality wise IT IS A GRAFLEX 3 CELL BATTERY TUBE. Authentic of Not is irrelevant.
And at least some parts of it I believe are authentic anyway...
So the description was accurate and trying to refute that logic or that reality just means you
are trying to argue with me for no reason because you didn't take the time to ask me
any specific questions and you just assumed things.
Which is not my fault. "
and then:
"I have no idea what exactly Parks or anyone else makes, if it DOES NOT SAY "PARKS GRAFLEX" on it then who knows who made it?
That's just simply what you and your friends probably call what they make not the actual name of the items.
If you go to that link I sent you it's NOT called a "Parks Graflex" at all - it's just called a "Graflex". Period.
And nowhere on the Flash Tube does it say "Parks Graflex" or "Parks" anything else....
ALL IT SAYS IS - "GRAFLEX" and that's it. Period. If it says anything at all...
And what you have, I believe that is EXCATLY what it says - and says only - "Graflex".
Because I know for a FACT it does not say "Parks Graflex" anywhere on the flash tube that you
have or on any other Graflex 3 Cell that I have sold. "
I have been arguing back and forth with him all morning, he always will take specific words in his description and try to argue that they don't mean that he was selling an actual "Graflex 3 Cell" and that a parks is a graflex three cell because that is what it is called on their website.
How exactly do I report him? Ebay's customer support pages have become almost an FAQ and the only way to contact ebay is that "I haven't received the item yet" or "I received an item that does not match the seller's description" which leads only to "i want to return an item"
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I had written to this guy asking for more photos before the auction ended (if this was auction ID: 171749084542). Here was his response:
So, was this the same auction, with the photos taken in the dark, with the DVD case (probably the full screen version too haha)?
This guy clearly knows all of the differences between a real Graflex and a reproduction. He lists far too much non-pedestrian info in his message back to you about what the parts are used for and the pricing of the real parts, and how to put together a full "real" Graflex.
I'd contact eBay through any route that gets a message to a live person. They can reroute you from there to the proper channel, or open the case for you at that point.
| Hi, thank you for your questions. All the photos for the auction are present, my camera has difficulty taking clear shots that are close-up as you can tell - it's an older small digital camera. And it takes me awhile to take photos of metal objects close-up. If you want to bid you'll have to make the decision on what you see and if you win then the flash gun comes 'As is'. In the condition it is as stated in the description. Thank you. |
So, was this the same auction, with the photos taken in the dark, with the DVD case (probably the full screen version too haha)?
This guy clearly knows all of the differences between a real Graflex and a reproduction. He lists far too much non-pedestrian info in his message back to you about what the parts are used for and the pricing of the real parts, and how to put together a full "real" Graflex.
I'd contact eBay through any route that gets a message to a live person. They can reroute you from there to the proper channel, or open the case for you at that point.
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Sym-Cha
Master Member
If you paid with a credit card you can have them refund you right away and he'll be contacted by them to reimburse ... otherwise take it up with PayPal by phone if possible 
... and you can always send the top part back as it is a replica ... and a picture of the bottom next to your mooning bottom :wacko
Chaim
... and you can always send the top part back as it is a replica ... and a picture of the bottom next to your mooning bottom :wackoChaim
I can buy a fake Rolex that says Rolex on it, but that doesn't make it a Rolex. Some people...
Ha. Yeah for a guy who seems to not get what the difference is, he sure threw down how to get a real graflex top off a 2 cell.
That and his old auctions where his wording was more precise and yet not getting the case he wanted... so he changed it up.
No point arguing with him anymore... do as they say above... sent them to Parks, send the other genuine graflex auctions... even send the auction where he split them to make more money (and he knew at that time he could have had one genuine... so why split?!)
This guy annoys me to no end. I've been on the bad end of buys (whether the seller knew or not) so it's great you can take this guy down.
That and his old auctions where his wording was more precise and yet not getting the case he wanted... so he changed it up.
No point arguing with him anymore... do as they say above... sent them to Parks, send the other genuine graflex auctions... even send the auction where he split them to make more money (and he knew at that time he could have had one genuine... so why split?!)
This guy annoys me to no end. I've been on the bad end of buys (whether the seller knew or not) so it's great you can take this guy down.
matty matt
Sr Member
This guy knew exactly what he was doing.
This made me laugh out loud for real.
Chaim, you are hilarious man.
I opened an ebay case. Unfortunately i now need to wait until 4/27 for them to even get involved. I suppose I can call them and reference it though. I had to file it under return to even officially open anything. Paypal won't let me dispute the purchase because a dispute is already open with paypal.
He just responded already now that I have escalated it to a case.
"You say you want at least a partial refund since the item is not completely what you want - But you have most of what you want. So you have 70-75 % of what you ordered. The rest you are not interested in - so you are due a refund. You will be refunded $60.00 which is the correct amount the the piece you do not want. Please ship the piece back that you do not want and you will be refunded for the part you are not interested in and I will consider this matter concluded. Thank you."
"You say you want at least a partial refund since the item is not completely what you want - But you have most of what you want. So you have 70-75 % of what you ordered. The rest you are not interested in - so you are due a refund. You will be refunded $60.00 which is the correct amount the the piece you do not want. Please ship the piece back that you do not want and you will be refunded for the part you are not interested in and I will consider this matter concluded. Thank you."
It's good that he is responding, yet now trying to back out of this with the least amount of monetary losses. I don't think that's a good deal still, but that's just me. I think it would be hard to locate a Graflex top with glass eye for $60. At least there appears to be some movement from him. I hope this gets worked out to your satisfaction.
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