Real or Fake Graflex?

Discussion in 'Star Wars Costumes and Props' started by cnccus, Apr 20, 2015.

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  1. cnccus

    cnccus New Member

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    Ok so like everybody here, I saw the infamous Graflex in the new trailer for TFA. It made me freak out, and then I instantly thought to myself, am I ever going to get an opportunity to get one after everyone sees it and the price of a real Graflex skyrockets. I foolishly and hastily(extreme emphasis on hastily) went to ebay and bought one...stupid, I know. The price was just as bad as I had feared it would be, but I bought one, nonetheless. I just got it in the mail, and I'm rather disappointed. The bottom and the clamp show all the signs of wear and tear, rust and corrosion on the inside, and scratches to boot. No big deal, until you look closely at the top section....its almost too clean. The beer tab, the glass eye, (missing the button which the seller was trying to hide by not showing many pictures at various angles) The bunny ears, aside from a few small scratches, seems to be pristine. Then there is the screw holding them in place, as opposed to the rivet. All of these together is making me think that I received a half real, half replica Graflex, and I wanted your opinion before I contact the seller. He was purposely very vague about the description and pictures, which I realize now that I think about it, should have been a major red flag to me. The price I paid was excessive, for what I believe is a replica. What do you guys think?
    The original auction:
    http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=171754643211
    What I received(sorry about the cell phone pictures, I'm no photographer. I turned the flash on to see it better, not sure if that helped or made it worse):
    http://imgur.com/a/R225Q
     
  2. KaanE

    KaanE Sr Member

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    Bottom and clamp are genuine, top doesn't looks to be.
     
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  3. teecrooz

    teecrooz Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    No, it's not. The square pin bases, the brass connection facing the "bottom" instead of the top, and the screw in the bunny ears are all early Parks replica give aways.

    The bottom and clamp might be though. Checking the pictures again for you.
     
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  4. KaanE

    KaanE Sr Member

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    Well, I can't say about the top, but bottom and clamp are both genuine.
     
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  5. Kevin Gossett

    Kevin Gossett Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Unfortunately I think you're out of luck. The seller never claimed it was genuine, states to ask any questions before bidding, and doesn't accept returns. Chalk it up as a lesson learned? You did manage to get it for less than some others are going for...
     
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  6. Probe Droid

    Probe Droid Master Member

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    I've handled a lot of these units and have to agree with the above. It seems it was cobbled together from a real bottom and clamp mated to a replica top. I'm a little suspicious of the clamp as well, but it looks like it's seen some action at least while the top is too clean, although who knows.
     
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  7. KaanE

    KaanE Sr Member

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    It's not just the action seen on the clamp but also, the lettering is correctly placed.
     
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  8. cnccus

    cnccus New Member

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    Thanks for looking into it, at this point do I have any options? Or did he cover his own behind by being purposely vague and my foolishness to not ask questions beforehand? Its less than the current prices of a real graflex, but I'm still out $300 for only half of a Graflex.

    As for the clamp, its my understanding that they originally were manufactered with black paint on the lettering of GRAFLEX around the band? If thats the case, I can detect some remaining black paint in the corners of the L E X letters. The inside of it has traces of rust and everything.
     
  9. KaanE

    KaanE Sr Member

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    I have never heard anything like that.

     
  10. vistaVision

    vistaVision Well-Known Member

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    He stated he was selling a used Graflex. He sold you a replica Graflex, not the same thing. Despite his no returns policy, if the item does not match the description, I would expect Ebay to side with you if a dispute were to be filed...
     
  11. teecrooz

    teecrooz Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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  12. KaanE

    KaanE Sr Member

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    The only clamp with the correc placement was the old Romans, and he's not doing the correct-placement ones anymore. Also, Romans were aluminium.
     
  13. Darth Lars

    Darth Lars Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    I think you would otherwise more often see a genuine top from a Graflex 2-cell mated to a replica bottom than the other way around.
     
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  14. Sym-Cha

    Sym-Cha Master Member

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    The bottom and clamp are real genuine G R A F L E X parts ... no question ... the top is indeed a replica as mentioned by my peers ... though I understand that you might feel cheated ... sometimes sellers don't really know what we here on therpf do ... so his claim and I quote : 'Used Graflex 3 Cell Flash Gun, the same type used in the first Star Wars trilogy for Luke Skywalker's Lightsaber.' might be honestly what he believed to have up for auction. So what can you do now? 3 options ... 1) Keep everything and purchase an ANH kit from Roy ... 2) Seperate the 3 parts and re-sell them seperatley at $150 the part but be honest about the top 3 cell and be able to afford a real complete and prestine G R A F L E X from 3cell ... or 3) ditch the replica top 3 cell and get a real genuine top by posting a WTB in the Junkyard or check whether 3cell or someone else has one coming in soon :)

    Chaim
     
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  15. JoeG

    JoeG Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Yeah the good news is you have the genuine part thats usually harder to come by - the 3 cell bottom. 2 cells are easier to come by and you'll get a genuine top. Just wait for the hype to die down, so the prices come down some. Don't be in such a rush. The 3 cell flash isnt super rare. There are plenty of them out there, so there's no reason to pay these inflated prices.
     
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  16. KaanE

    KaanE Sr Member

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    In fact, you could resell it and you would get even a higher price today than what you paid, and then buy another one, completly genuine for less when the hype is down.
     
  17. Sym-Cha

    Sym-Cha Master Member

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    As for the G R A F L E X text being painted black ... I'm not certain ... it could easily have been accumelated grease and dirt from handling ... and the little crevases of the embossed letters just hold onto it . . . if the clamp did not get a proper cleaning. Someone may correct me if I am mistaken :)

    Guys . . . the hype is just getting started . . . again . . . with Episode VII right around the corner . . . don't hold your breath for the hype to settle down that quickly . . . especially when Princess Leia or any of her siblings are going to handle the G R A F L E X based lightsaber . . . for the next trilogy :lol

    Chaim
     
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  18. cnccus

    cnccus New Member

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    In that case, having the grease in the crevices may confirm the authenticity of the clamp. An aluminum clamp wouldn't have rust on the inside where it met the two halves of the flash, right?
    Thanks everybody for all the advice. I think I figured out what this guy did... he has 100% positive feedback except for one other auction....this one:
    http://www.ebay.com/itm/Graflex-3-C...D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
    Am I seeing correctly, The vintage top with a pristine looking bottom? This buyer said "BUYER BEWARE!!! Read the fine print and look at the photos closely, dang it"
    Did the seller buy a $150 replica and an orginal, mishmach the parts and sell two items, split them in half and sell both at the inflated price? What do you guys think?
    *EDIT* It even has a picture showing the rivet holding the bunny ears in place
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2015
  19. KaanE

    KaanE Sr Member

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    You're right, genuine top with replica bottom.
     
  20. Kevin Gossett

    Kevin Gossett Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    That was my first thought, before you even mentioned that
     
  21. Sym-Cha

    Sym-Cha Master Member

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    Indeed ... whether with intend or not ... he did put the wrong parts back together :wacko Perhaps you can persuade via messages to him, before you give negative feedback, to set the record straight between him, the other buyer and you ... he does have the address of the previous winner ... so this could be rectified just by leaving one of you with a replica and perhaps a partly refund since a Park's is worth $150, and the other with the real genuine parts ... not having 100% positive feedback will harm the seller even more . . . in the long run :)

    Chaim
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2015
  22. cnccus

    cnccus New Member

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    The pictures he shows in both auctions show detailed pictures of only the original parts....the base on this one and the top on the other. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt, but this makes it all seem fishy. I wish I had looked more closely at this when I bought it, all of this could have been avoided. I'm going to contact him now, see what he says about it.
     
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  23. Anakin Starkiller

    Anakin Starkiller Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    This quote, "the same type used in the first Star Wars trilogy for Luke Skywalker's Lightsaber" to me means it's a real graflex. So I'd say this is a lie and you have the right to get your money back. But, if you don't win, you could make what you have more authentic by tracing down a graflex slave and putting the parts from the slave into the top half shell
     
  24. teecrooz

    teecrooz Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    That's not true. I have multiple roman clamps that are steel with correct spacing. I just checked and they are magnetic.

    I think biskit also had the spacing correct. Can someone check that for me?
     
  25. KaanE

    KaanE Sr Member

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    I have just spoken with Romans today. Anyway, originals are nickel plated... brass?, not steel.
     
  26. Country Paul

    Country Paul Sr Member

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    A while back I bought a 3 Cell a bit hastily on eBay, you don't see too many for sale here in the UK so at £100 buy it now I went for it (even though I didn't need another)

    like this one the seller was a bit vague but suggested it was genuine & the auction pictures weren't great, in my haste I didn't ask the questions I should have

    when it came I realised it was a Replica the moment I started unwrapping it

    I emailed the seller explained that it was infact a replica & we agreed on a partial refund he gave me back £30 so I paid £70 for a replica which I could live with

    I find its always worth contacting a seller
     
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  27. teecrooz

    teecrooz Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Again, not true. The original clamps rust and are also magnetic. Brass is not. The tube sections are a different story.
     
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  28. cnccus

    cnccus New Member

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    My clamp is magnetic, and has a bit of rust underneath the lever when I disassemble it. Neither the lower genuine or upper replica portion is magnetic on mine.
     
  29. mugatu

    mugatu Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    I would say, as the others have already, the clamp and bottom tube are genuine. Sucks about the top part, but that really is the easiest of the three main pieces to get. I have two at home right now. I don't remember if they were de-beer tabbed or not. If not, I can see about letting you have one for a good price, but you'll still need the LK red button (Long Knurled).

    The dead giveaways were pretty much pinpointed by teecrooz at the beginning. Check out the Real vs. Replics thread by scottjua that teecrooz linked on the first page.
     
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  30. KaanE

    KaanE Sr Member

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    Nice to know!
     
  31. Panaflex

    Panaflex Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Call me naive, but it just doesn't seem right: Fellow Star Wars geeks scamming other fans like this. A shame really.
     
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  32. Trooper_trent

    Trooper_trent Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Bottom and clamp are original. Top is most likely a Parks. Slotted screw on the rabbit ears is an instant tell. Plus it just doesn't have the same look finish wise, as a real one.
     
  33. cnccus

    cnccus New Member

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    I got a message back from the seller, it seems he doesn't leave me a leg to stand on to fight it:
    "Everything is correct as I listed it, everything I've sold I've listed correctly - everything I have sold I bought second-hand
    and therefore is used.
    The item is used in all respects.
    Nothing I have sold was ever ordered from any manufacturer by myself. I bought all items from individuals and have resold them.
    I describe each and every auction accurately - It is a used Graflex 3 Cell the same type used for Luke Skywalker's Lightsaber.
    I did not include genuine or vintage or any other descriptive analysis other than what it simply is: A Graflex 3 Cell. Period.
    I also said to "Please ask questions before bidding." As I recall you did not.
    Thank you."
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 9, 2018
  34. Panaflex

    Panaflex Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    "It is a used Graflex 3 Cell the same type used for Luke Skywalker's Lightsaber."

    If the top isn't a Graflex, then you have him here with this statement.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 9, 2018
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  35. NeoRutty

    NeoRutty Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    I'm surprisingly angered by this.

    Yeah... the second you write "Used Graflex 3 cell" on a replica, you're lying.

    I can't put up a kit car and say "Lamborghini"... then say "oh... well I never said it was a real one.. Just stated what it was... and it IS a Lamborghini".

    No. It's not.

    And ebay would side with you.

    Based on his response, I would take him down.

    He COULD have written "Luke Skywalker lightsaber part"... that's fine... but he invoked the "Graflex" name. Lukes lightsaber isn't a graflex... it's from a galaxy far, far away... you're selling a "Graflex" then it sure as hell better be from the mid 1900's.

    TAKE HIM DOWN.

    POS.
     
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  36. Anakin Starkiller

    Anakin Starkiller Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    What a dick!
    It's not a used graflex 3-cell!!!! it's a used replica!

    NeoRutty is right. A replica Lamborghini that has been driven a couple times is not a "used Lamborghini".

    This guy intentionally mislead you. I'd report him, and open up a case with e-bay as well as paypal. If for no other reason then to give him a hard time. He's a scumbag
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 9, 2018
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  37. jchristman

    jchristman Well-Known Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Yeah, unfortunately I have to re-iterate what everyone else is saying; replica top with genuine bottom and clamp. I had been watching both of his auctions for a while out of curiosity. I speculated he'd done exactly what you've suggested, combined parts from a real Graflex and a replica to make two to sell as real. I'm thinking he thought he could get away with it by being vague in the description and playing dumb, since part of it was a real flash.

    In fact, he re-listed it several times when it didn't reach his reserve, and changed the description. At first it was described something like "Vintage Graflex 3-cell. I'm not an expert on vintage camera gear, so it may have replacement parts." After he wasn't getting the price he wanted, he changed the description to just "Sold as-is" and stopped mentioning replacement parts completely.

    He should be reported. He was purposely misleading in the photos and the descriptions. The fact that he had a notice about possible replacement parts and then removed it to get a higher price shows it was done purposely.

    Jason
     
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  38. cnccus

    cnccus New Member

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    I agree with all of you, the Lamborghini argument is a good analogy haha. Some people just care about the money I guess, they don't care who they screw over. I sent him another message, but tomorrow I'm going to go to ebay and paypal. @killrmonkey I did see those auctions when I searched google for his username. He listed them on several different ebays (.hk,.ca, etc) all with the same vague descriptions and pictures like you said. Definitely learned my lesson though, I should probably lock my wallet away before I make any big purchases and I do sufficient research.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 8, 2018
  39. mugatu

    mugatu Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    One thing: he didn't sell a Graflex 3 Cell. He sold a Parks 3 Cell reproduction (with a few Graflex parts).
     
  40. cnccus

    cnccus New Member

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    He's getting * now, two messages in a row, saying that "they are the same thing" "i never made any guarantees, etc, etc."
    Message 1:
    "It IS a Graflex 3 Cell Flash Gun just perhaps not "vintage" - meaning "old".
    And I made no such claims.
    I'm not an expert in vintage camera equipment.

    As far as I understand it even a reproduction Graflex works perfectly well and functions the exact same way
    that vintage Greflex does and works perfectly well with vintage Graflex Cameras.
    But if will function just as well as a "vintage" flash gun even if you are using it for the purpose of taking photos
    with a Graflex Camera.

    But it is exactly that - It is EXACTLY a Graflex 3 Cell Flash Gun as described and I bought it second hand from someone else
    - you're just being picky about the age and when certain parts may have been produced.
    But I assure you - you are holding EXACTLY a Graflex Flash Gun of the same style as was used for Luke Skywalker's Lightsaber.
    Exactly the same style.
    I never said it was ACTUAL prop used in the movie, believe me if it had been the actual thing that Mark Hamill held in his hand
    then I would have asked thousands for it instead of hundreds ... But it looks and feels EXACTLY the same and is EXACTLY the
    same size with the same details and it works. So there is no difference except in perhaps age on some parts.
    And as I said, I did not specify that it was "vintage" or "genuine" and I listed it as "Sold As Is" and "No Returns" if you read
    the description correctly.
    AND of course you never asked me any questions before bidding or before the auction was over and you could have very easily.
    You could have asked to see more photos - and you did not.
    You could have asked me a hundred questions about it - and you did not.
    You received EXACTLY what was in the photos except for the DVD which I said was not part of the sale - you got EXACTLY
    what you bid on and won.
    Thank you. "

    Message 2:
    "The description is NOT misleading it IS a Graflex - from top to bottom it is an EXACT Graflex 3 Cell...
    Just perhaps not a vintage one, and as I said, I did not list it as such. I did not list it as "genuine' or "vintage" in the description.
    if you got half a "vintage" flash gun then you still ended up with a whole Graflex - but part "vintage".
    But I assure you the WHOLE thing is still a Graflex style flash gun.

    All I said it was - it was what it is - A Graflex 3 Cell - no more and no less.
    If you look up places that sell reproductions they still list them as Graflex and even stamp the name Graflex
    on the bottom and on the side of the clamp and they work with a Graflex Camera.
    Therefore they ARE Graflex Flash Gun's because they are that STYLE, they're just not "vintage."

    Hey, Graflex are very difficult to find - you should be very lucky you got one at all at the price you did.
    Sometimes people have to buy 2 or 3 to get a complete Graflex 3 Cell the way that they want it.
    As you saw, mine did not have the Red Button or certain things with it - that was all in the photos which
    is why I said it is "Sold as is".
    You would have to get at least a 2nd Graflex to complete it or a reproduction Red Button.

    Also, you know you can get Graflex 2 Cells pretty cheaply - if you wanted to you could just put
    the one you got from me with a complete Graflex 2 Cell and have a complete "vintage" Graflex.
    Even parts are worth quite a lot by themselves - a vintage Graflex Clamp or 3 Cell bottom can
    both sell for a LOT of money.
    I've seen just the very bottom part of a 3 Cell go for over $200.00 by itself that's because many
    people buy 2 Cells and then find a 3 Cell bottom and Bam! They have a complete 3 Cell...

    Also the Clamp is used not just with Luke's Lightsaber but also for Ben Kenobi's Lightsaber
    so a vintage Graflex Clamp is almost as valuable as the 3 Cell bottom.
    Maybe just as valuable - vintage parts are very rare and valuable."

    My response to him was
    "You say all of this, but what you sold me IS NOT a GRAFLEX 3 Cell. It is a Replica 3 Cell with a some graflex parts. Whether it looks like a Graflex and functions like a Graflex does not make it a Graflex. It is not "EXACTLY a Graflex Flash Gun" I never assumed it was the actual prop from the movie, nor that it was a replica. Your description said it is a "Graflex Flash Gun of the same type" but it is not the same type, it looks like it is the same type because people have manufactured replicas to be as such. But these are NOT Graflex 3 Cells, it is a PARKS 3 Cell. I didn't ask any questions because I did not assume I was going to be scammed out of $300 for half of a Graflex. Your description did not say it was "Graflex Style" it says "Graflex 3 Cell Flash Gun, the same type used" which is not indicative of what you sold me. You sold me something that looks like a graflex with some parts that appear to be of the same type. Your pictures were not indicative of this either, someone who wasn't looking closely would not even realize that it came without the red button. Not one picture even highlighted this flaw. I knew it was without the button, and this is not the issue here, the issue is that for $300 you sold me half of a replica. Your previously listed auctions, after further investigation, highlighted facts such as "VINTAGE" and "may have some parts missing or replaced" which is found here:
    http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Gra...371?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27fc35bb73)

    or the previous auction you just sold which contained the rest of the vintage Graflex parts here:
    http://www.ebay.com/itm/Graflex-3-C...D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
    With the argument that "the vintage parts are very rare and valuable" you knew this and sold one vintage flash for the price of two"
     
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  41. Sym-Cha

    Sym-Cha Master Member

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    Insert Palpatine's voice : 'Kill him ... kill him now!'

    :lol

    Chaim
     
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  42. Anakin Starkiller

    Anakin Starkiller Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    If he thinks this statement holds any water, "Therefore they ARE Graflex Flash Gun's because they are that STYLE," then I have a Shelby Cobra to sell him. And he should be happy to get a modern Cobra for 500 grand because some people pay much more for vintage ones.

    His argument basically equates all reproductions of antiques with their authentic counterparts. I can buy a copy of Action comics #1 produced in 1988 for a dollar, but if I try to sell is for a million using the argument that it's the same thing as it's vintage counterpart printed in 1938 because it's the same STYLE, I'd go to jail.

    I don't think it's worth continuing to talk to him. He's just trying to wear you down. Open the case with e-bay and paypal. He's probably just trying to put you off and keep you talking until you pass the date by which you can open a case. If you don't open a case, soon, you'll pass that point and be at his mercy.
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2015
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  43. NeoRutty

    NeoRutty Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    YES with above. File the case... screw his fail arguments. He's just * he's being called out.
     
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  44. Anakin Starkiller

    Anakin Starkiller Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Open the case with e-bay. Send them a link to Park's website, where you can buy replica graflexes for $150.00. Then send them a link to auctions for vintage graflexes which are currently listing from 4-500$ and it should be pretty obvious to them what kind of scam this guy is running.

    Dan
     
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  45. cnccus

    cnccus New Member

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    I argued that selling a watch with an original band and a replica watch is still a replica, he argues
    "I am honest and the wording does make all the difference. PRECISE WORDING...

    It IS a GRAFLEX. But maybe not a "vintage" Graflex which again I did not say.

    You know what the word "vintage" and "genuine" and "authentic" have abosulutely nothing
    to do with the Name Brand of something right?

    You can buy knock off Niki Shoes from Hong King - they are STILL Niki Shoes just not "authentic"
    Niki Shoes. But they still have the Niki logo and everything but they just come from somewhere else.

    Let's be clear on the subject - the words "authentic", "genuine" or "vintage" were never used
    in the description so don't mix up the word GRAFLEX with something else... the word "Graflex" in itself
    does not mean that it is "genuine" or "authentic" or "vintage".

    All the word "GRAFLEX" means is that it is that type of Flash Gun - which it is.

    Even that company knows that - It's STILL a Graflex - just not a "vintage" Graflex.
    And I NEVER said it was. You only assumed that.
    Without EVER asking me a single question.
    And actually it IS a "vintage" Graflex just maybe not a "complete" one.

    See, words ARE important, so is asking questions BEFORE you bid."

    and:
    "In response to your recent message about the Parks people - just because that's what the "FANS" call it
    does not make it a "PARKS GRAFLEX" but you see - the words "GRAFLEX" is STILL there!
    So yes even if it is a Parks Graflex it is still a Graflex - and it is actually "Vintage" as well just perhaps
    not completely... If it is a Parks and I don't know because it does not say it - it only says "GRAFLEX".

    So please stop using your own terminology or teminolgy you have "heard" from other people
    and call it EXACTLY what it says it is - A GRAFLEX 3 Cell.

    Because that is what it is. No matter what YOU call it - it IS a Graflex 3 Cell. Period.
    No matter WHEN it was made or WHO made it. So stop using the word Graflex as if that in itself means
    its authentic. Because the word Graflex only means that it say so on the item and it works
    with that style of camera. Period.

    1. Does it hold 3 Batteries? Answer: YES -so therefore it is a 3 Cell.
    2. Can you attach it to a Graflex Camera? Answer: Yes you can.
    3. Does it say Graflex on it? Answer: Yes it does.
    4. Does it say any other brand or company on it? Answer: No, it doesn't.

    So logically and reality wise IT IS A GRAFLEX 3 CELL BATTERY TUBE. Authentic of Not is irrelevant.
    And at least some parts of it I believe are authentic anyway...

    So the description was accurate and trying to refute that logic or that reality just means you
    are trying to argue with me for no reason because you didn't take the time to ask me
    any specific questions and you just assumed things.

    Which is not my fault. "

    and then:

    "I have no idea what exactly Parks or anyone else makes, if it DOES NOT SAY "PARKS GRAFLEX" on it then who knows who made it?

    That's just simply what you and your friends probably call what they make not the actual name of the items.

    If you go to that link I sent you it's NOT called a "Parks Graflex" at all - it's just called a "Graflex". Period.


    And nowhere on the Flash Tube does it say "Parks Graflex" or "Parks" anything else....

    ALL IT SAYS IS - "GRAFLEX" and that's it. Period. If it says anything at all...

    And what you have, I believe that is EXCATLY what it says - and says only - "Graflex".

    Because I know for a FACT it does not say "Parks Graflex" anywhere on the flash tube that you
    have or on any other Graflex 3 Cell that I have sold. "

    I have been arguing back and forth with him all morning, he always will take specific words in his description and try to argue that they don't mean that he was selling an actual "Graflex 3 Cell" and that a parks is a graflex three cell because that is what it is called on their website.

    How exactly do I report him? Ebay's customer support pages have become almost an FAQ and the only way to contact ebay is that "I haven't received the item yet" or "I received an item that does not match the seller's description" which leads only to "i want to return an item"
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 9, 2018
  46. mugatu

    mugatu Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

    Trophy Points:
    1,782
    I had written to this guy asking for more photos before the auction ended (if this was auction ID: 171749084542). Here was his response:

    [TABLE="width: 100%"]
    [TR]
    [TD]Hi,
    thank you for your questions.
    All the photos for the auction are present, my camera has difficulty taking clear shots that are close-up
    as you can tell - it's an older small digital camera. And it takes me awhile to take photos of metal objects
    close-up.
    If you want to bid you'll have to make the decision on what you see and if you win then the flash gun comes 'As is'.
    In the condition it is as stated in the description.
    Thank you.
    [/TD]
    [TD="width: 185"][/TD]
    [/TR]
    [/TABLE]

    So, was this the same auction, with the photos taken in the dark, with the DVD case (probably the full screen version too haha)?

    This guy clearly knows all of the differences between a real Graflex and a reproduction. He lists far too much non-pedestrian info in his message back to you about what the parts are used for and the pricing of the real parts, and how to put together a full "real" Graflex.

    I'd contact eBay through any route that gets a message to a live person. They can reroute you from there to the proper channel, or open the case for you at that point.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 9, 2018
  47. Sym-Cha

    Sym-Cha Master Member

    Trophy Points:
    3,305
    If you paid with a credit card you can have them refund you right away and he'll be contacted by them to reimburse ... otherwise take it up with PayPal by phone if possible :) ... and you can always send the top part back as it is a replica ... and a picture of the bottom next to your mooning bottom :wacko

    Chaim
     
  48. Kevin Gossett

    Kevin Gossett Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

    Trophy Points:
    2,980
    I can buy a fake Rolex that says Rolex on it, but that doesn't make it a Rolex. Some people...
     
    mugatu and RooBee like this.
  49. NeoRutty

    NeoRutty Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

    Trophy Points:
    2,791
    Ha. Yeah for a guy who seems to not get what the difference is, he sure threw down how to get a real graflex top off a 2 cell.

    That and his old auctions where his wording was more precise and yet not getting the case he wanted... so he changed it up.

    No point arguing with him anymore... do as they say above... sent them to Parks, send the other genuine graflex auctions... even send the auction where he split them to make more money (and he knew at that time he could have had one genuine... so why split?!)

    This guy annoys me to no end. I've been on the bad end of buys (whether the seller knew or not) so it's great you can take this guy down.
     
    mugatu likes this.
  50. Sym-Cha

    Sym-Cha Master Member

    Trophy Points:
    3,305

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