Prometheus (Post-release)

Holy cow! Phantom Menace bad?!? :eek:eek:eek

I guess we all have our different takes. Star Wars Chick and I walked out and she looked at me and said "you hated it didn't you?" and I replied "That is the best movie I have seen in a decade."

I love the Aliens franchise, but when I think of movie compared to all the others, this one just gives me so much more to think about and ponder on. This movie stirs my imagination in ways it hasn't been stirred since I was a kid. There are a million "what-if" scenarios that this movie opens up for me and that is the main reason I like it.

frosty said:
Honestly, i don't know, i like the films for what they are, it does have its good points don't get me wrong, i was there first day front row centre eager to see another chapter done by the master himself, but it just fell flat, its the phantom menace of the series, i felt the same way coming out of the theatre after seeing that, honestly i've watched it again on blu ray, and still feel the same way, i don't hate it, but i don't love it, which i wanted to
Click to expand...
 
Well if we all like the same things, life would be dull, it seems a lot of people do love it, great, we'll get more movies, and you know what. i'll go see those to, as hopefully it'll go somewhere interesting, hopefully i'll like those more than this.
 
frosty said:
Honestly, i don't know, i like the films for what they are, it does have its good points don't get me wrong, i was there first day front row centre eager to see another chapter done by the master himself, but it just fell flat, its the phantom menace of the series, i felt the same way coming out of the theatre after seeing that, honestly i've watched it again on blu ray, and still feel the same way, i don't hate it, but i don't love it, which i wanted to
Click to expand...

haha thats pretty funny. :lol

So you think Prometheus is worse than Alien 3, Alien Resurection, Avp and Avp Requim?

yep, now I've read it all
 
I can't stick alien 3 at all, after the rush of aliens, killing everyone off, nah not for me, just negates the previous film.
But this was ridley, i thought it was going to be bringing the movies back to something great, and for me it just wasn't
Avp and requim, well it is what it is, requim i couldn't see what the hell was happening, AVP was worth a watch, it was not trying to be anything more than a smackdown movie, which is what it should be
 
There is a common link to the story(ies) if you consider the Directors Cut of Alien. I'm surprised by how little its mentioned and for me its one of the most powerfull scenes in the film and I was surprised it was left out of the original.
Its where Ripley finds Dallas being slowly consumed by the goo and Brett is being turned into an egg. There is also the strange organic design and material cocooning them that Jim Cameron used in Aliens.
Its fairly obvious from Ashes analysis about the structure of the facehugger regularly "shedding cells changing and replacing them with polarized silicon" that the alien has a completely different chemistry and lifecycle to us. The only way it could have ever had "acid for blood" was to have a silicon cell structure that resisted such a powerful reagent.
That the creature "mirrors" its hosts physical characteristics but has a completely foreign cell structure was a brilliant piece of the story concept for me. Human beings became not a "food " in the traditional digestive sense but an externally consummed resource to "dissolve and transform".I always assumed thats how it grew so tremendously quickly, by consumming substances that we couldn't. Remember the Facehugger, Chestbuster and Alien never "ate" people, but redirect the nutrients from them into recreating the next viable form of creature. Its most obviously illustrated by the Dallas and Brett scene and is creepy as hell and when I saw it it added a huge piece to my understanding of the lifecycle. You can also see "worms" ie maggots disolving Brett in the goo fluid.
So its arguably a problem for Prometheus that suddenly the Engineers look exactly like, right down to the 100% human DNA. But there is a beautiful way to solve this storyline when you consider that what we've been allowed to think the Engineers are supposed to be via Shaw and Holoway may not be the case at all
And one assumes in their interstellar travels the "Engineers" have also encountered other planets with differing foreign biologies as well. So the origin of the Alien we all love and see does, in no way immediately have to relate to Engineers or human beings at all.
As an intial Prometheus detractor I still have great difficulty with the way the film is written, particularly after I've seen the cut scenes, of which three would have added a great deal to the film without limiting the potential of the sequels scope.
But its also clear that the story is weakened by the number of times the script direction was constantly changed to include additional cinematic scenes as they were concieved ,ruining the narrative continutity to some extent and the very basic truth that it was changed from being a one act to a trilogy very late in the filming process.
And it would help if somebody ran the science facts in the script through google ie Interstellar distances, basic life sciences ( atmospheric CO2 levels of 3% are survivable by human beings for weeks on end. Its when it hits 8% concentrations the body has problems)etc made it look and sound very dodgy at times.
SRS can easily "rescue" the more critical problems within Prometheus if he gets the next two films to make sense. He could easily make a hauntingly powerful sequel based on the backstories that all ready exist and yet still make a credibly "different" film in context and character.
Theres the unquestionably shaken faith of Shaw in her theories but not beliefs, as well as the residual cellular contact she suffers from her "pregancy." One of the very, very,very few things I ever liked about Alien 4 was the traits in the changing Ripley. You could easily explain Shaws rapid healing issues by that but then where else could you go.
Davids questionable attitude towards people. What will he do now he is freed from Weylands directions? Is he controlled by deeper seated programmable motives or does he have the will to create his own choices, and own a soul of his own making.
SRS has a palate as wide as the universe to choose from, I just hope he paints a better picture with it than with the first so that in retrospect it makes more sense storywise.
With reference to the old Alien creatures the thing to really remember is that they were truely "old monsters" of the human subconcious. The facehugger combined both the hated bodies of the snake and spider and did unspeakably nasty things . The chestbuster was a giant toothed maggot bursting at speed from a bloodily "eatten" body.
And the Alien itself was the insectile demon of our nightmares, all teeth and claws and viciousness. As wonderfull as they were there are plenty of other nightmares for SRS to play with. He just needs to choose the right looking ones.
 
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CutThumb said:
There is a common link to the story(ies) if you consider the Directors Cut of Alien. I'm surprised by how little its mentioned and for me its one of the most powerfull scenes in the film and I was surprised it was left out of the original.

Its where Ripley finds Dallas being slowly consumed by the goo and Brett is being turned into an egg. There is also the strange organic design and material cocooning them that Jim Cameron used in Aliens.
Click to expand...

The issue with that scene is that it stops the movie cold, and ruins the mood that the film so perfectly built up to. Ripley now being alone. When Ripley finds the bodies of Parker and Lambert, she's alone.... in the middle of nowhere... six weeks from any help... with a creature that wants to do horrible things to her. That right there is horrifying enough. But when she finds Dallas and Brett all cocooned and mutating, it sort of takes that 'alone' element away. And to be quite honest, it doesn't add anything to the story either. My friends and I had no idea that such a scene had existed because nothing about it is ever referenced or brought up. The film works perfectly without it.

Now, if they had placed the scene in a different part of the film, like when Ripley, Parker and Lambert are still together and they both find the nest, maybe it could have worked. John Carpenter's The Thing did something like that when McReady, Garry and Nauls find Blair's ship.
 
I don't disagree at all with your analysis of its position in the Directors Cut, which was precisely was its missing from the original film version ,which I preffer (though I think the ***** slapping Lambert gives Ripley at Kanes examination would have been very good to keep in).
I think the scene should have come in when she went looking for Jones. She finds the lads looking not to well, then hears Lamberts and Parkers gruesome deaths. That pushes her to the final fatefully self destruct sequence and ramps the tension through the roof. Again positioning in the narrative is the key, too early it distracts before Ash, too late it kills the pace of her escape.
Which is why the sequel needs to be VERY well thought out and written well in advance of the shoot. Sir Ridley Scott ,my door is always open. Hell, I'd do it for next to nothing, JUST so I could kick all the plot holes and bad science out of the filming script before its made and not have to do so ,choking with disappointment afterward. I mean decades of reading science fiction and thousands of bestselling crime and thriller novels ought to help a little. Call me now!
 
D_RcjII9QUybTeAdsRkLtw2.jpg
 
Yep, a geologist that hates going underground so much so that he has panic attacks (mind you he says he "loves rocks", presumably just the ones handily exposed on the surface) and a biologist that runs away from the discovery of a lifetime i.e. evidence of an intelligent humanoid but very dead alien life form thats about a million times less dangerous than the large, hissing and obviously threatening snakething he tries to make friends with later. Not the finest examples of scientists ever to grace the screen but well in the running for the Interplanetary Darwin Awards, along with Holloways " a thousand winning ways to pissoff a robot clever than me " personality.
 
In 1944, the british painter Francis Bacon painted Three Studies for Figures at the Base of a Crucifixion:

1944_zps90ca36d6.png


This painting was, especially for that time, shocking. It had a rawness that, combined with the images it represented, was very disturbing...



Many years later, Bacon revisited the same subject:

1988_zpsba06c8c8.png


The same "universe", so to speak, and a wonderful painting, but it lacked the rawness, the edginess... it's a bit too much of a "pretty picture" to really get that same grib on the viewer.


It's a bit how I experienced "Prometheus", after leaving the theater at the time. Still good, very well made, but perhaps a bit too smooth, too much of a pretty picture...
 
Art Andrews said:
Holy cow! Phantom Menace bad?!? :eek:eek:eek

I guess we all have our different takes. Star Wars Chick and I walked out and she looked at me and said "you hated it didn't you?" and I replied "That is the best movie I have seen in a decade."

I love the Aliens franchise, but when I think of movie compared to all the others, this one just gives me so much more to think about and ponder on. This movie stirs my imagination in ways it hasn't been stirred since I was a kid. There are a million "what-if" scenarios that this movie opens up for me and that is the main reason I like it.
Click to expand...

I finally saw Prometheus and I enjoyed it. It certainly was beautiful to look at and Fassbender was perfect in his role. I got the whole "Chariots of the Gods" bit but I would have liked a longer version that explained the crews' actions a bit better. As far as sci fi movies of the last decade go I'd still rank it well behind "Moon" as Sam Rockwell really delivered a stellar performance in that film.

This write up I read pretty much sums up what I thought about Prometheus -and its connection to Alien:

"The main theme from the start of the movie is "Sacrifice" ... The way the weyland corp deliberately send in complete idiots (mercenaries not scientists)while they sit on a lifeboat safe and sound, sacrifice. Nothing can be achieved without it. Its the main premise of the movie as the intro to the film also demonstrates. Earth was to be used as a seeding point for the engineers parasitic biotech. Thats why they created us. The goal is to produce perfect life.We were to be used as hosts. My evidence?? (links below).. look at the sculpture on the wall. Its the deacon protomorph rising from the primordial goo. But look below that to the left and right at the bottom. What do we see, yes two humans or engineers with facehuggers injecting eggs into them. Go and check again if you didnt see it in the movie, its there i can assure you.. Also the biologist mentions that one of the space jockeys bodies they find has had something explode out its chest. Yes they had an outbreak before they got all the cargo on board. We were to be used as the hosts for the perfect lifeform. So our gods created us to be mere cattle, simples! So all your theories about lv 426 are not correct. The derelict on lv426 predates the weapons lab on the moon by many thousands of years or more, thats why he was fossilized. So there ya go, that's actually what Prometheus was about and its link to Alien. If you are in any doubt of anything ive said, watch the movie again. Also listen to the dialog when they are in the pyramid very carefully. Including the part about how the water isnt frozen although its 12 below as its actually nanite goo. The whole place is made of the stuff as liquid nanite fluid appears to be the basis for the engineers technology. Its also how David figures out how to work the holo emitters. Remember "David" has an iq supposedly of 360 or more. He has been given instructions to look out for the bio technologies the company wish to acquire this is the hidden agenda of the weyland corp and the reason they are on the mission in the first place as its certainly not down to cave paintings.The initial team sent in are nothing more than an experiment or sacrifice with David pulling the strings.Why do you think david is running about pushing things and opening doors like a maniac? He wants at least one of them infected and when it doesn't happen first time round through inhalation he's told to "try harder" As is explained later in the movie Vickers "the suit" wants the company and whatever she can salvage from the bio tech they hope to smuggle back. Of course her father wants immortality or the technology to achieve it.So we also see there is a conflict of interests between family members of Weyland corp . As ive said before i cannot find any plots holes within Prometheus. Only that people misunderstood the film."

The tomb sculpture with facehuggers
http://i1157.photobucket.com/a...
The tombs Mural with an engineer holding down an Alien biomechanoid his hand melded to its ever evolving/Mutating head.
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tum...
David 8 and the Nanites
http://imageshack.us/f/600/dav...
The Black nanite goo and its function
http://i.imgur.com/hm4SP.jpg


That review came from here-
The Connection Between Prometheus And Alien | We Got This Covered
 
One of the most interesting breakdowns and explanations of the films plotlines I've yet read but you would need an IQ similar to Davids to have worked all THAT out in one viewing at the cinema (not to mention a perfect photographic memory to recall all the briefly seen details and a fair degree of science for thetech involved).I read something very similar about a decade ago and it could possibly be mostly incorrect for some fairly obvious reasons.
Firstly warfare tends to need newly designed weapons and fast respounces to tactical changes as the escalation of violence becomes serious. Seeding a planet millions of years ago to bring forth your "perfect labmice" and then taking thousands of years more to design a perfect parasite does not strike me as a particularly efficent way of doing this, especially if your nanite goo can simply reduce your enemy to grease on contact (and in minutes if ingested ,as per the Engineer and Holloway). When your enemies are turned to dust in the wind why bother doing anything else?
If you are really talking an interstellar war here ,then its far easier to just drop a few rocks on to your enemies planet from orbit and then leave it to recover and heal itself within a few centuries (think dinosaurs here) or re engineer its biosphere shortly after the bombardment to more suit yourself. If you are really going to have to dig up the garden then replant it with what you like and need,before the original ecology recovers, its quicker and simpler.
Its also rather silly to design "labmice" with the identical genetic structure to yourselves without having "an antidote" at hand ,so that the weapon is as deadly to you as the species you are attempting to wipe out, IF you have that level of expertise in the first place. And if the mice (or cattle )are genetically identical to you in the first place, what you would use there and then is your own readily available species .Not nice ,but very much more practical than waiting millions of years for an experimental subject to appear on a seeded planet.And given the time period for the development of the "mice" is millions of years, and then the experiment seems to have been running for at least another thirty five thousand years after that , its unlikelyeven if you are after a pefect species. Their R&D budget must have been enormous and the weapon masters patience incredibly and long lived. There are stars with shorter lifespans and a planet would change beyond recognition. Or the explanation is just plainly wrong.As Wolverine said "pick one".
And the enemy, who also presumably has spaceships could just as easily fly away to somewhere else in the galaxy (which is also a rather good place to hide, given the countless millions of existing star systems towards its galactic centre) before you could even use the weapon on them. And then wait for you to die or forget about them whilst you tried looking. Odds are you would never find them.
There were also dozens of planetary systems revealed to David in the pilots chamber , so why not have your experiments take place insitue in the "lab" (as on planet Earth) where the mice are readily at hand, or transport a few of them from there back to your base of operations when they are ready to use and isolated from the population that has taken you millions of years to create. Again all that time and travelling doesn't just add up if you can terraform planets at will and create life so apparently easily.
Like I said its a good premise but very flawed and rather bound by terristrial logic. There is a much, much better one, but thats up to Ridley to use or the writers to find if they haven't already.
 
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It is worth noting that the two facehugger-esque images in the big relief in Prometheus are straight copies of original preproduction concept sketches done in 77 by Giger for ALIEN (the sketch that shows a pair of pliers as a guide for the 'huggers "Oral Insertion Mechanism" )

Caroline
 
Actually got around to watching this movie last night and really enjoyed it. I had heard some negative reviews prior, but I thought it moved along well and had a good storyline.
 
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