Prometheus (Post-release)

[blipper]

This will come off as belittling to some, but some of the complaints show that the Ridley, Spaiths, and Lindeloff may have overestimated the intelligence of many in their audience, not the other way around.

Honestly, you can take enthusiasm for a movie only so far. Prometheus aims (VERY LOUDLY! BIG QUESTIONS YA KNOW!)) for intelligence but falls desperately short.
I'm of the mind that Scott and Lindelof (in particular) had such a preoccupation with being 'clever' that the whole thing just comes off as masturbation. Though to be fair, I think Scott was primarily involved to get back on a more secure and bankable footing after Robin Hood.

The first big moment of panic I had that the writer might not be particularly smart was when Shaw announces to the audience upon entering Vickers quarters "wow! A Super duper limited edition and very expensive automated med-pod!" - Scott may as well have just put a captioned arrow on the screen that points to it and says PAY ATTENTION! - THIS WILL COME IN USEFUL LATER ON IN THE MOVIE! (and this is way before we see Shaw, an archeologist, appear to be very capable of operating said incredibly exclusive and very hi-tech medical equipment)

At a stretch I could let that go, it would be a stretch but hey -sci-fi. The first example of knuckle-headed signposting has absolutely no place in an intelligent film though.

And another example of subtle-as-a-hammer writing is having David arbitrarily take Shaw's crucifix solely for the purpose of her getting it back later and thus her faith restored - that's some pretty cheap and neon-lit symbolism right there.

I guess though you could argue David had 'secret motivations' for taking it and here's the thing that chaffes with David - you can make absolutely anything fly in this story because David's an android: given what little we know he's wildly open to interpretation to the point of being a blank page.

But what about those reactions to Shaw collapsing after the C-section? Right, ostensibly there were none. Why? Because the focus of the scene was Weyland's all important 'reveal' and the very important task of moving onto another scene that wouldn't require people panicking at what the heck might have caused Shaw to be in her state and is their a danger they should be aware of.

It's pitiful writing.

Even David who has a clearer idea than anyone might want to show more of an interest than a trite quip - I mean, it was his experiment, and if his sole concern at that moment was Weyland then, y'know, maybe whatever came out of Shaw might be a threat to doddery old Weyland.

But hey, he's a robot, he has mysterious and quite explainable motivations to be found out in next weeks thrilling adventure of 'Planet of the Space-Derps', right?
Really - you will not find these kind of wtf clunkers in Alien or Blade Runner - those are movies where Scott has shown that an intelligent movie is anchored in relatable, plausible characters. Prometheus wants to start off immediately with an intelligent concept and gives scant regard to those all important building blocks. It's full of lazy writing -

Why isn't finding more of the 'Engineer's running' hologram explored? Why are they only conveniently shown a tantalizing snippet?

Why isn't the pups hologram scrutinized for clues re: Fifield and Milburns accident? Don't they record it? Does anyone actually ever really use it anyway?

Why would the Captain presume it was a glitch and not a life form the pup detected and at least get others opinion - they have travelled x billion miles and actually found an ET installation after all, quite possibly the most significant find. Ever. At least entertain the idea the pup was working to spec.


Why would the Engineer who previously prioritised his mission to Earth above getting Shaw now prioritise getting Shaw above grabbing another ship and getting on with his obviously pressing engagement.

There are other sloppy moments, clunkers and conveniences but it just gets tedious going round and round. Prometheus was enjoyable enough but deeply problematic. Making out it's a more finely crafted and intelligent movie than it is though just lowers the bar.

 

[Guy Cowen]

I know this is stupid, but exactly what the hell was Shaw going to EAT on her journey with David onboard the Engineer ship...?

These are things that keep me up at night.

David, I know i would :lol

 

[Kim]

Why would the Captain presume it was a glitch and not a life form the pup detected and at least get others opinion - they have travelled x billion miles and actually found an ET installation after all, quite possibly the most significant find. Ever. At least entertain the idea the pup was working to spec.

Didn't the supposed life-source not move at all for an extended period of time and then proceeded to vanish into thin air? Would it make sense to have checked it out or have the probe return for repairs, sure and I agree that it is a weak point. However, I also understand why the captain was focusing on the guys who were unable to return to the ship anyways, not to mention they were not armed or able to engage any antagonistic lifeforms. Staying put and waiting for more information kinda makes more sense than rushing into something that is potentially dangerous.

It is obvious that most of the crew are there for very different reasons than engaging ET-life, actually, most of them are there in order to disguise the actual mission as a mining exploration, right? They were expecting a geological survey of a rock, not "meeting their makers". Having crap protocol in the event of encountering not only life (and I'd imagine most of the crew were expecting any life found on this mission to be very primitive), but supremely intelligent and hostile life, isn't a wild leap of the imagination for a crew of scientists and pilots for hire, is it? =)

 

[Kit Rae]

Honestly, you can take enthusiasm for a movie only so far.

Don't take this as one who wants to argue each point, because if you did not like, you did not like it. But I am curious, so I responded with some of my thoughts to each point. I had zero expectations when I went to see the film by the way. I learned not to expect anything after the let down of Return of the Jedi when I was a child.

The first big moment of panic I had that the writer might not be particularly smart was when Shaw announces to the audience upon entering Vickers quarters "wow! A Super duper limited edition and very expensive automated med-pod!" - Scott may as well have just put a captioned arrow on the screen that points to it and says PAY ATTENTION! - THIS WILL COME IN USEFUL LATER ON IN THE MOVIE! (and this is way before we see Shaw, an archeologist, appear to be very capable of operating said incredibly exclusive and very hi-tech medical equipment)

Agreed, that was blatantly telegraphing something to come, but I had also seen the alien removal scene in the trailer, and saw the med-pod on the website, so I already knew it was coming, as did just about anyone who saw the trailers. Did not bother me enough to dis the film. Just made me PO'd that too much was shown in the trailer.

I guess though you could argue David had 'secret motivations' for taking it and here's the thing that chaffes with David - you can make absolutely anything fly in this story because David's an android: given what little we know he's wildly open to interpretation to the point of being a blank page.

His motivation for taking it seemed simply to be cruel to her, and it seemed obvious in the scene when he took it. His attitude towards her seemed to change after seeing how far she was willing to go to survive. As far as him being a blank page, he seemed the most readable and understandable character in the whole film to me.

But what about those reactions to Shaw collapsing after the C-section? Right, ostensibly there were none.

Actually, someone got her a robe and helped her sit down, but that was one of the few issues I had with Prometheus. I thought it was an odd scene, but the first thing in my mind was not "bad writing", but, what the hell is going on in this surreal scene? The fact that David was so completely focused on Weyland in his presence that nothing else mattered to him other than prepping him to meet his maker, was very telling. That was all that was important to Weyland at the point he found out one of the Engineers was still alive, so that was all that was important to David. The crew were essentially expendable before the ship even left Earth.

Even David who has a clearer idea than anyone might want to show more of an interest than a trite quip - I mean, it was his experiment

His experiment? Infecting Holloway was. I don't think David had a clue she would be infected, let alone impreganted by Holloway. How could he have anticipated or planned that? THAT would have been bad writing. Once he found out she was pregnant, I got the impression he was completely done with her. Freeze her and we will study this thing later. He already knew he was taking Weyland to the engineer at that point. A lot happened from the time she blacked out until she came to in the med lab.

Really - you will not find these kind of wtf clunkers in Alien or Blade Runner

Despite my love of Alien and Blade Runner...oh lets not even go there. Despite the fact that these are now considered untouchable classics, there are clunkers a plenty in both films...especially Blade Runner. I well remember those discussions with my fellow sci-fi fanatics.

Why isn't finding more of the 'Engineer's running' hologram explored? Why are they only conveniently shown a tantalizing snippet?

When would they have had this opportunity? The first visit was very brief, and things went to hell immediately as soon as they got there on the second, prompting them to leave immediately.

Why isn't the pups hologram scrutinized for clues re: Fifield and Milburns accident? Don't they record it? Does anyone actually ever really use it anyway?

Curious. That makes me wonder what you were paying attention to. Charlize can be a bit distracting The hologram was in use and being watched constantly from the moment the pups were released. The captain and at least one, possibly two other crew members in the background on the bridge, were monitoring it throughout the night while Fifield and Milburn waited out the storm, including seeing the life form appear off and on. He knew exactly where they were when they lost contact and told Shaw when they were suiting up for the return after the storm. Not to mention numerous scenes of he and Vickers studying the hologram throughout the first scout scene.

As a side note, people have complained 'how could Fifield map the caves and then got lost?' Actually Fifield was the geologist. He carried the pups, which mapped the caves and sent the data back to Prometheus. There was nothing to indicate Fifield had any type of portable hologram device with him. All he had to do was ask Prometheus where they were and where to go if needed. Presumably, in a normal job, his forman would have told him where to do his work after the mapping was complete. The one line he said as they were leaving the was something like "we came here before". This was within minutes of the ship calling and telling them the storm was coming, so I did not equate that to being 'lost', just one wrong turn. They talked to Prometheus literally 10 seconds later. But, the man was an incompetent idiot, and was written that way for a reason. He was nothing more than a union labor Weyland company man. And this was just another routine geology job to him, until it became apparent it was not.

Why would the Captain presume it was a glitch and not a life form the pup detected and at least get others opinion - they have travelled x billion miles and actually found an ET installation after all, quite possibly the most significant find. Ever. At least entertain the idea the pup was working to spec.

Someone already replied to this above, but the captain did tell Fifield and Milburn there was a lifeform. Then the signal was only intermittent, indicating a possible glitch. Not much else he could do from the Prometheus bridge during storm other than tell the team about it after the storm passed. David went directly to check that pup out when he returned after the storm, by the way. It was the first thing he did.

Why would the Engineer who previously prioritised his mission to Earth above getting Shaw...

He actually let Shaw walk out of the pilot room after killing everyone. He never made a move to get her. It came across that he simply let her go. Out of pity (she was just wacked in the gut by Welands man, who the Engineer killed), or simply that he saw her as no threat.

...now prioritise getting Shaw above grabbing another ship and getting on with his obviously pressing engagement.

He calmly went to work powering up the ship after letting Shaw go, setting the navigation, or whatever he was doing. Even that did not seem to be a pressing engagement from what I saw. It was not until after the humans caused his ship to crash that he went to get Shaw. He had just seen evidence that these humans were willing to sacrifice their lives to stop him. Was he going to prevent her from doing anything else since, as the only human left alive, she had access to the other bases and ships? It may have been as basic as wanting to kill her out of anger. He did not simply swat her into a wall and crush her when he found her though. She had an axe in her hand and he pinned her to a wall, I presumed to disarm her. What is more interesting to me is was he going to kill her, or take her with him, and what did David say to him that whole time, and how did David know he was going to her. I know, I know, you probably see all that as 'bad writing' as well

Making out it's a more finely crafted and intelligent movie than it is though just lowers the bar.

For whom? Not for those of us who see that it is a finely crafted intelligent film. It is not perfect, but I have yet to see a perfect Ridley Scott film. This ranks among his best, and compared to about a dozen other top sci-fi films from the last 20 years or so, this makes my list.

But we all have our individual tastes, which makes these discussions interesting.

 

[SpyderDan]

Why isn't the pups hologram scrutinized for clues re: Fifield and Milburns accident? Don't they record it? Does anyone actually ever really use it anyway?

This was something I paid better attention to on my 2nd viewing. The mapping was never comleted. Throughout those communicatons between Janek and Fifield and Milburn, you can see the pups still making their way around, and much of the facility has yet to be mapped. Even in the later scene with Janek and Vickers, you can see the pups still going about their business.

Maybe once the map was complete, then it would be available for any sort of distribution to lost crew (if they even have any device to make use of it, which we never saw) or for scrutinizing by the scientists. Maybe Janek was keeping an eye on it, waiting for it to finish, and the lifeform/glitch caught his eye because one of the pups stopped moving.

My guess is also that it might have been meant more for a record of the site for later study than as any sort of real-time navigation tool. The assumption was that they would take it back home.

 

[Jedi2016]

While we're on the subject (sort of), I suppose that the "ping" that the one pup picked up from the cockpit area was the sleeping Engineer? That the reason the pings were so intermittent was because he was in stasis? That was something I had to think about later.. for some reason, watching the film, I had been under the impression that the pup was picking up something at its exact location, rather than something on the other side of the door and another forty yards on or so.

 

[Kit Rae]

That's exactly what it was picking up through the door, and why David immediately went there first upon returning, I presume.

My guess is also that it might have been meant more for a record of the site for later study than as any sort of real-time navigation tool. The assumption was that they would take it back home.

I got the impression this was just a regular function of Fifield's job when going underground. He named them pups, howled when they were released, and tried to impress the others with how cool they were. In reality he had very little to do with them.

 

[Zenwalker]

I know this is stupid, but exactly what the hell was Shaw going to EAT on her journey with David onboard the Engineer ship...?

These are things that keep me up at night.

Ha ha. I was thinking the exact same thing.

Not only that but where's the toilet?

 

[CessnaDriver]

Give it a C-, friends felt the same.

Last ten minutes was the most interesting, but it took along time to get there with lots of "stuff" happening that didnt' really seem to matter much.
Another dysfunctional idiot crew that has no business aboard a starship on an important mission self creating one cluster **** after another with remarkably bad decisions.
Honestly some of the bone head moves done were laughable and almost slapstick.
Play the Benny Hill music.

No mysteries revealed as the trailers gave away the important plot points. Pity.


Ironically the android was the most interesting character to me and only one I bothered to care about.

No desire to see again.

The last ten minutes set up for space adventures in the horseshoe starship warping away with hot chick and robot head in search of enlightenment sounds like a more interesting film.

Saw in 3D.

Gripe....

Look up at the night sky, The moon will always appear flat and 2d never as a sphere.
The stars are all very far away, will always appear at the same infinate distance away even if some are closer then others to us.

So at a few places in the film, things looked unnatural and cartoon like because
they were forcing a 3D perspective on celestial objects far away that should appear
flat because they are so distant to the observers position.

 

[NAZGÛL]

Ha ha. I was thinking the exact same thing.

Not only that but where's the toilet?

She would have to overcome some scale issues when finding the jockeys toilets:

 

[Too Much Garlic]

While we're on the subject (sort of), I suppose that the "ping" that the one pup picked up from the cockpit area was the sleeping Engineer? That the reason the pings were so intermittent was because he was in stasis? That was something I had to think about later.. for some reason, watching the film, I had been under the impression that the pup was picking up something at its exact location, rather than something on the other side of the door and another forty yards on or so.

They picked up that sleeping jockey that far away, through a closed door, but didn't find life in the ampule room where it was shown that worms lived, while it was floating into that room mapping it - if there was a life glitch it was certainly there... but what disturbed its reading? The head? :rolleyes

 

[ringa]

Forgive me if this has been discussed before, as I don't have time to read through the whole thread.

My questions have to do with the ending. The crash landed ship and the Space Jockey were in place, which relates to the beginning of Alien. But, at the end of Prometheus, the Space Jockey dies away from that ship inside the pod. Isn't he supposed to be found still in the seat of the crashed ship at the beginning of Alien?

Also, why does a fully developed alien pop out of his chest?

If these have been answered somewhere, can someone please direct me to it? Thanks.

 

[neosporing]

...Also, why does a fully developed alien pop out of his chest? ...

two possible theories... there are quite a few...

theory #1 - mural indicates that the black goo catalyzes reconstituted DNA morphing directionally towards a xenomorph type shape.

theory #2 - fanboy appeasement

 

[Too Much Garlic]

Forgive me if this has been discussed before, as I don't have time to read through the whole thread.

My questions have to do with the ending. The crash landed ship and the Space Jockey were in place, which relates to the beginning of Alien. But, at the end of Prometheus, the Space Jockey dies away from that ship inside the pod. Isn't he supposed to be found still in the seat of the crashed ship at the beginning of Alien?

Also, why does a fully developed alien pop out of his chest?

If these have been answered somewhere, can someone please direct me to it? Thanks.

Different moon and different infection.

 

[Art Andrews]

Forgive me if this has been discussed before, as I don't have time to read through the whole thread.

My questions have to do with the ending. The crash landed ship and the Space Jockey were in place, which relates to the beginning of Alien. But, at the end of Prometheus, the Space Jockey dies away from that ship inside the pod. Isn't he supposed to be found still in the seat of the crashed ship at the beginning of Alien?

Also, why does a fully developed alien pop out of his chest?

If these have been answered somewhere, can someone please direct me to it? Thanks.

The answer to your question (and this has confused MANY people) is that the events of Prometheus take place on LV-223, NOT LV-426 (where Alien and Aliens take place). The confusion here is because the Engineer's ship crashes at the end of the movie and makes everyone think it is the crashed derelict that is seen at the beginning of Alien. It is not the same ship... not the same planet.

 

[crabra comander]

The answer to your question (and this has confused MANY people) is that the events of Prometheus take place on LV-223, NOT LV-426 (where Alien and Aliens take place). The confusion here is because the Engineer's ship crashes at the end of the movie and makes everyone think it is the crashed derelict that is seen at the beginning of Alien. It is not the same ship... not the same planet.

:thumbsup

Not the same Alien/facehugger either?

 

[Jeyl]

My questions have to do with the ending. The crash landed ship and the Space Jockey were in place, which relates to the beginning of Alien. But, at the end of Prometheus, the Space Jockey dies away from that ship inside the pod. Isn't he supposed to be found still in the seat of the crashed ship at the beginning of Alien?

It's not the same planet, it's not the same ship, and it's not the same being. In fact, it's not even a Space Jockey. Space Jockeys aren't tall, steroid induced cabbage patch kids.

Also, why does a fully developed alien pop out of his chest?

Because someone liked ALIEN3 that much. It popped out of a dead host almost fully developed, has no back tubes, walks on all fours, and the first thing it does after being born is extend it's mouth out. This movie sucks.

Also, I loved how this newly born "thing" had an umbilical cord. I'm sure that even though the Engineers share the exact same DNA as we do, the male gender can still develop perfectly functional placentas.

 

[Kerr Avon]

It's not the same planet, it's not the same ship, and it's not the same being. In fact, it's not even a Space Jockey. Space Jockeys aren't tall, steroid induced cabbage patch kids.

Let's be honest. It WAS the same planet, ship, and being in the previous versions of the script but it was so butchered by rewrites that the entire movie lost any coherent meaning.

 

[ringa]

The answer to your question (and this has confused MANY people) is that the events of Prometheus take place on LV-223, NOT LV-426 (where Alien and Aliens take place). The confusion here is because the Engineer's ship crashes at the end of the movie and makes everyone think it is the crashed derelict that is seen at the beginning of Alien. It is not the same ship... not the same planet.

So...the conclusion must be made that these Engineers either have the worst luck flying their ships, or they just suck as pilots?

 

[ringa]

two possible theories... there are quite a few...

theory #1 - mural indicates that the black goo catalyzes reconstituted DNA morphing directionally towards a xenomorph type shape.

theory #2 - fanboy appeasement

I'm going with theory #2.