Prometheus (Post-release)

[Mr Webber]

If someone can complain about those flimsy plot holes at best obviously takes mankind travelling faster than the speed of light, functioning on a spacecraft with full gravity and smoking in an oxygen rich environment in their stride.

 

[ONEYE]

I am going to see this movie again. It went by a bit too fast for my brain to process. There was that mural, relief/carving somewhere. It did show what I thought was the Alien creature we all know (and love?). Since that mural exists, to me that means that the form of Alien we know already exists. I'm not sure how this all comes into play.

We all know that Aliens evolve, take certain traits from their hosts, but does this mural mean that there is a basic shape/pattern that they all eventually evolve to?

Our human DNA matches the Engineers. Shaw's fetus is part human, part black goo. Is the black goo part Engineer? Shaw's fetus impregnates the Engineer, as a result, that "Queen prototype chestburster" is 1:3 black goo, 1:3 human, and 1:3 Engineer? Will it/she evolve to the Aliens Queen we now know?

I can't wait to see what kind of collectible replica props come from this movie! Black goo vases, Engineer helmet, human helmet, flamethrower, couldn't get a good look at the pistols, but those as well.

Oh man so many cool things! The mutated worms, the early fetus, the fully develped fetus, the prototype Queen. The Prometheus ship! The Engineer ship! Engineer statue with and without spacesuit/helmet. I know I missed other things, what can you think of that you would like from the movie? Oh hell, give me a copy of the 3D mural!

 

[benhs1898]

Your definition of a plot hole and everyone elses is vastly different, quoting Wikipedia...

"
A plot hole, or plothole, is a gap or inconsistency in a storyline that goes against the flow of logic established by the story's plot, or constitutes a blatant omission of relevant information regarding the plot. These include such things as unlikely behaviour or actions of characters, illogical or impossible events, events happening for no apparent reason, or statements/events that contradict earlier events in the storyline.
While many stories have unanswered questions, unlikely events or chance occurrences, a plot hole is one that is essential to the story's outcome."

Here are a few from some sites

Spoiler

"Why was Weyland being on the ship kept a secret? It would have changed nothing if he just led the expedition himself from the start.

When Shaw is 'pregnant' with the squid - How did she manage to hide the foot-long, 6 inch wide piece of metal she bludgeoned the medics with? Then she was allowed to run around the ship to get to the Auto-doc, and in scenes directly following that no one seems to care that she just assaulted two of the other crew members. Then, once she removes her squidbaby, alien goo splashes everywhere, including into her open wound. That's not all. She then leaves to find Weyland sitting in his wheelchair, but none of the people hanging out with him seem to think that Shaw is a contamination risk to the aging man everyone set out to save. Additionally, that incision in Shaw's belly cuts core muscles which would leave you unable to walk for at least a couple of weeks, staples or not
.
Then, there's the fact that the squidbaby was left unattended in the Auto-doc room for what I can only guess was a couple of days (Christmas when they arrive, new years day when Shaw leaves) without anyone noticing, including Vickers, whose private quarters were attached to the room. If it wasn't a couple of days, how did the creature gain so much mass without eating anything?

How does the member of the team tasked with mapping the location get lost? Why didn't they just call the ship and say hey we are lost?

Why did the two who got creeped out by the decapitated engineer return to that room to sleep and then want to play with a alien cobra?

How did Shaw run out of air when the other two were expected to stay out overnight?

How did the Engineer make it to the Prometheus shuttle without a helmet?

Why didn't he just go to another ship if he was hell bent to wipe out earth instead of going after shaw?

Why did the captain of the ship go "there's a life reading... oh well"?!

Why commit suicide by ramming the ship when all they did was put it in autopliot anyway, no handed?

Why didn't the ship itself have any weapons, the crew had them?

How would ancient earth cultures get a star map to a biological weapons planet?

Well I don't know why I got a degree in film when I could have just read wikipedia.

 

[ONEYE]

Oh wait, the Engineers, since they travel, are highly advanced, etc. maybe they came across the Alien species early in its evolution and tinkered with it. That may be why the mural shows what we know as Aliens? They adapted the species to make it take traits from it's soon to be prey, make it a more efficient killer of whatever life form the Engineers send it against?

 

[hansicle]

That's another thing I don't understand. In the trailers, we see David all sweet on an Urn with little fingery things wiggiling about, but I don't remember seeing that same scene in the movie. I saw him over an urn, but I don't remember the fingery things coming out.
The urn he collects had was looks like 4 vials inside, with the black goo in them. It didn't look like a creature, but like vials.

What was the purpose of the goo? It didn't seem like a weapon, Charlie just got sick from it, they didn't let it play out long enough to see what it was doing to him. We know what it left in Shaw...so what was the purpose of the black goo? I could see if it was some sort of catalyst for mutation, and the engineers weren't necessarily "engineers" as much as they just collected biology from the various planets they visited, and this planet was just a lab that hey used to run experiments, using the black goo to mutate these things, and it back fired...

 

[ghostryder]

I don't think the Aliens as we know it were a "species" they encountered - I took from the film they created this "black goo DNA extractor" as some sort of bio-weapon? life generator? And it backfired on them. Or something like that. But the Alien creature grew out of this creation. Sort of like if we created nanobots that turned into grey goo and just got out of control, except the Engineer's version is bio-mechanical.

 

[ONEYE]

I don't think the Aliens as we know it were a "species" they encountered - I took from the film they created this "black goo DNA extractor" as some sort of bio-weapon? life generator? And it backfired on them. Or something like that. But the Alien creature grew out of this creation. Sort of like if we created nanobots that turned into grey goo and just got out of control, except the Engineer's version is bio-mechanical.

Ok, then how do you explain the mural? Did you see what looked like an Alien in it?

 

[hansicle]

What better way to terraform a planet, then to integrate your DNA into the Indigenous creatures of the planet, let them evolve, then extract the DNA that allows them to survive on that planet, and incorporate into the DNA of the settelers that are going to inhabit it.

It would make sense if Earth was going to be setteled by the engineers, they check on it from time to time, and find humanoid descendants living there. Some think they should let it be, others want to exploit it. It never comes to destroying it, and we develop to the point where we can travel to other planets ourselves....now we are a threat, because what if we want what they want, more property....

I love the idea of the xenomorph, because it basically infects a host, integrates it's DNA into it's own so it can survive in that environment, and becomes a fighting machine on behalf of the engineers. It is extremely useful when attacking other planets. No need for a suit, drop it in, infect the population, and the resulting xenomorphs destroy the population. Something necessary for interplanetary battle.

 

[jasonw2112]

I enjoyed the movie, but I feel as though they could have tied up some loose
ends. I don't mind having things open for interpretation, but I want to know
more about the engineers!

I loved the "Space Jokies", and the derelict ship aspects of the movie. I think
the more polished look on H.R. Gigers design really worked. They also used a lot
of other ideas of Gigers, that were designed for "Alien".

 

[valdi]

Just got back.

What we have here.. is failure to maintain one's expectations. Those of you who didn't like it (and I am NOT one of you) obviously wanted this movie to be something very very different, be it another Blade Runner or another Alien, or another anything for that matter.

That's the problem.. it was never going to be "another" anything. It was something new.

What you ended up with was something very different from your expectations, and so you do the only thing you know how.. lash out at how much of a hack Ridley Scott and Damon Lindelhof are.

I loved it. It was exactly what I was hoping it would be. I wanted this film to explore the mythology behind Alien, and by God, that's what it did. Yeah, there's a lot of unanswered questions, as well there should be. How can you go on and on about how great the "mystery" and unanswered questions are in the original film, and then complain that this one was too much of a mystery and left too many unanswered questions? Make up your mind.. do you want the answers, or don't you?

Yeah, a lot of my initial predictions and theories were wrong, but what we got was just as good. I loved it, start to finish.

So I have to ask, to those "disappointed" souls. What was it you wanted the film to be? And don't use the word "another" when answering.

To start with, don't Assume you know what people want. I for one didn't want a different movie per say, I just wanted this one to be good (well better anyway). And such were my expectations through most of the movie. Needless to say, my expectations weren't met. The reason being: sloppy writing, bad and less than charismatic acting by some. Basically I don't mind having some big questions hinted at for me to think about afterwards. But having questions thrown at you like the writers were brainstorming about the movie, as if they were not sure how to include the things that are in the movie and don't know how to wrap things up, is insulting. And in imo there were to many elements I could see that were meant to increase the tension but were resolved shortly afterwards and with no consequence. Then said element is both annoying and unnecessary (one example, the autodoc... Why bother to have it calibrated for men and then have Shaw tap on the screen and voila she can use it within seconds?) There really is no need to make it so complex to be interesting and thought provoking.

Like you are entitled to your meaning, so should I be, and without you telling me what I think.

It's the same with movies and music. I can tell instantly if I like it or not. I don't have to be an expert on the subject. It's down to personal taste.

 

[ghostryder]

Ok, then how do you explain the mural? Did you see what looked like an Alien in it?

I did. And I don't know. Maybe I missed something, there's a whole lot of "new" lifecycle ideas in here vs. what we thought we knew. I mean, something had exploded out of the chests of those pile of Engineers - was it an Alien-esque creature? Or was the Alien-esque creature at the end unique because it had lineage to Shaw and Holloway's human DNA?

I need to think on it some more. For now the theory in my head is the Engineers created this black goo bio-weapon - and that contact with themselves/humans/other aliens/worms/whatever results in some horrific creature that takes on Alien-esque features. So what they painted on the ceiling was a depiction of the potential "lethalality" of their creation - I mean, it looked alien-esque, but it wasn't an exact depiction of the Xeno we know and love as hatched from a human. Again, this is just my own idea - not saying it's right.

 

[hansicle]

I totally agree, there was stuff in there that didn't make sense, and could have been setteled with better writing. Like when Shaw has the thing in her, and David tells her she is going to be put in stasis, all he had to do was tell her the statis quo for the last few movies.. Weyland is always interested in new possible ventures, and they would be very interested in the organism inside of you... Weyland and Vickers... "I tried things the old fashoned way, and ended up with a girl, so I had to take matters into my own hands, and make myself a son". I still don't think Vickers was an android... was she?

 

[benhs1898]

So basically you want things to be explicitly said. That is REALLY bad writing. It's all about subtext. Just because you didn't understand doesn't mean it doesn't make sense.

 

[morrris99]

Here's what I love about these movies:

 

[ONEYE]

Just imagine if when they unmasked the "Engineer" if there was a Predator face underneath. Oh man, heads in the audience would have exploded!

To those that think Prometheus was a bad movie, go watch Star Trek V: The Final Frontier, they were on a search too.

 

[Noeland]

Ok, then how do you explain the mural? Did you see what looked like an Alien in it?

There was an egg of some kind at the base of the mural, and something else there too that almost looked like a giant urn. Charlie said, while shining his light on the greenish egg "This is just another tomb". Which was, for him, the same as what they'd been doing on earth. Digging open tombs and finding cave painting. It was a cave painting to his eyes. It was his moment of realization that he wasn't going to be speaking to an engineer.

The mural, for me, was sort of like the directions that come with a firearm. It explains what that weapon is, and what it does. I took it to mean that the xeno we know was part of their arsenal, but not all of it. Maybe one of the bigger "guns" in the room, so to speak.

I don't know if anybody else noticed that there were 2 or three different sized urns. I think David nicked one of the smaller ones to test on Charlie.

Another subtle aspect of the film was the "try harder" line, and what that meant. This one line defines the real reason the mission happened. "Try harder to find a way to save me from dying". Some folks have been wondering why he would bring a crew like that out into space. Well, they were chosen because they were meant to be expendable in the end, need be. He was more than willing to kill everyone on board to save himself.

It seemed to me that none of the crew really knew each other except the bridge crew. The rest of them were strangers, mercenaries, and corporate vipers. They're not going to care about each other.

I was waiting for the big Hudson moment though when one of the crew flips out and says "What the F is going on here?" and falls into hysterics. I expected it to be Milburn, but, well, he got snaked.

Shaw not breaking down after Charlie was killed was noted by David as "astounding survival instinct" or some such. Shaw has seen death many times. She can go on. And, they doped her up. She eventually did break down though and give up. It was David who gave her a glimmer of hope that she could go on.

I don't disagree that there are story elements that are the same as AVP. Those story elements, in and of themselves, were never my issues with that film. I suspect that Scott has never seen AVP, or AVP:R. But Prometheus ultimately does something much more profound with a story similar to AVP. It isn't a big excuse for a grudge match between monsters.

Again though, I think the film is all about David. I'd also bet the longer cut of the film will, like Kingdom of Heaven, be a lot better and fill in a lot of the cracks.

One other thing that occurred to me is not that they wanted to kill us, they wanted to turn us into weapons. The seeding of the planet with the building blocks of life was simply a first step in the process. But, the process was interrupted and they were never able to return to the planet and finish what they started. This allowed us to evolve and become self aware and civilized, and technological.

And the giant head, I think, was intended to be left on earth after they had turned it into a breeding/testing ground for bio-weapons. I think it was meant to be a marker and a warning.

I'm going to see the film again tomorrow, so I may have a whole new set of ideas after that.

 

[micdavis]

I love Star Trek 5.

 

[CutThumb]

The "black goo" is the "smoke monster" from Lost. Look in the other Prometheus thread to see my reasoning.

 

[ghostryder]

This was posted in one of the talk backs over at AICN - just food for thought:

A lot of folks seem to be missing many clues/explanations in the film.

by visigoth

1) The black goo is some sort of really aggressive retro-viral mutagen designed to turn whatever it encounters into extremely aggressive bio-weapon in the form of an organism with a parasitic life-cycle that ultimately destroys the host.

1a) The parasitic life-cycle is important because it allows for a bio-weapon that can be dropped on a target, forgotten, then safely retrieved after all fauna has been wiped out and the adult forms have died off.

1b) The big worm monsters are mutated versions of the tiny worms living under the pods in the temple.

1c) The squid baby is the result of one of Holloway's mutated sperm impregnating Shaw's egg (she says she can't have children, but that does not mean that she does not produce eggs). It's rapid growth is a bit odd, but in keeping with aspects of the other mutated critters seen elsewhere (the worms that mutate into the big worms are tiny things originally).

1d) The geologist was infected and began mutating after the acid blood from the big worm melted his helmet and he landed face down in the black goo.

1e) The engineer in the end is not infected. He is impregnated by the initial form of Shaw's infected fetus and what climbs out is the adult stage of that particular version of the parasitic bio-weapon.

2) If one accepts that the planet at the beginning is Earth then the mystery of why the engineer race wants to wipe us out seems apparent. The engineer that sacrifices himself at the beginning _is_ Prometheus. He uses a version of the mutagen and his own DNA to seed our world. For those that have read David Brin he is sort of uplifting an entire planet. The sacrificial element and use of his own DNA suggests that this is a quasi religious/ego motivated action not sanctioned by his peers.

3) The autodoc in Meredith's super ritzy lifeboat was programmed for a man because the lifeboat and everything in it isn't meant for her, it was meant for Wayland.

4) The engineer is pissed because the very things he was assigned to destroy have managed to make it all the way to their mutagen storage depot and sabotage his mission. A mission that already claimed the lives of his fellows (the film suggests through some sort of mishap with the mutagen contanimating members of the engineers directly).

5) We aren't told who hired most of the crew (Meredith only hired a few), but one can infer from Wayland's comments about why he funded the expedition and brought along Shaw and her partner that all his decisions regarding this trillion dollar mission were emotion and ego driven. So the fact that you've got some scientists who appear to unstable druggies and the like is not that shocking. Wayland is on a quasi-spiritual quest to turn himself into an immortal demi-god, he doesn't care about the rest of the crew too much, he just wants them not to interfere with him.

6) David is taking orders from the cryo-sleep Wayland. Wayland wants to meet an engineer if they are still alive, but also wants to know what their tech is capable of and considers the crew expendable. Thus the experiment on Holloway and the treatment of pregnant Shaw.

7) The movie has twin POVs. One is David. One is Shaw. Both are looking to pull back the curtain on the mystery of the creator.

David has already been disappointed by his, and wants to know about why his creators were created and if perhaps he might be a better being than them. And for all of his denials, I don't think for a minute that David is emotionless. There is a lot of rage and sorrow behind his placid slave facade.

Shaw wants to find out about humanity's creators in an effort to understand the face of god. Her belief in the mystical and spiritual allows her to face some of the scarier (philosophically speaking) revelations better than her Darwinist partner, Holloway.

8) Holloway's actions are frequently irrational because they are emotionally driven rather than logically driven. He cracked less at not finding living engineers in the first few hours of being planetside, but more because of all that they did find. The reality of being another races creation is worse to him than finding nothing would have been. It makes creationists right in ways disturbing to a strict evolutionist. As a scientist he should approach things more clinically, but scientists are human too, and in the face of the veritable proof that the foundation of your being is in error, some people can't handle it. And once he cracks, he goes and adds alcohol to the mix.

All that being said, it does feel like his character got the short shrift in this edit. I wonder how much more buildup and emotional weight his breakdown would be given in a longer edit.

Overall I enjoyed the film, though the last five minutes were a bit wobbly and the final reveal really didn't need to be there (maybe better post credits?). I suspect a "Kingdom of Heaven" style director's cut will fix what problems there are and that the film will be better thought of the more people have time to chew on it.

 

[Noeland]

Ok, nice to see I'm not the only who came to those conclusions.