Prometheus (Post-release)

[Too Much Garlic]

Woooah, there - calm down! I wasn't trying to insult you - it wasn't even a reply to your post, but to Colin Droidmilk? We have differing opinions - that's fine, but you said "the movie just doesn't hold up, story-wise" as if it were a fact. My bad, but that's how it seemed to me.

You quoted me, so naturally I assumed you were directing your response towards me

And yes, I'm sorry if I reacted too strongly. I just don't like there to be any misunderstandings about the reasons why I think it's an inferior story but an okay movie - it was not because it wasn't Alien... far from it... in fact... it was because of the things that were links to Alien and not needed and because of the b-grade horror style writing that always falls flat, instead of going for actual well-written horror and thriller scenarios they used so splendidly in Alien.

However... I wasn't expecting a horror movie either... I was expecting a science fiction mystery thriller with religious undertones about exploration of what came before and of the Space Jockey... but I got a movie that utilized all the clichees from bad horror movies in a movie that really wasn't a horror movie... so the style clashed grindingly with what the movie was and the story that was being told.

We didn't need the idiot character factor at all. That's usually counterproductive for any type of scare. It is more scary when intelligent, sufficient, efficient people get outwitted and outsmarted and seeing them slowly fall apart, rather than seeing someone who's nearly too stupid to breathe run right into the arms of the waiting monster and the audience is expected to care... no way... I usually think... great, one less idiot.

Oh, and I have no idea what you mean by 'infusing'.

And I think I used the wrong word there. I meant implying. Was just writing on something else and it must have carried over when writing the reply. Sorry about that.

 

[Bryancd]

Wow! Why wasn't that included in the film! That was very cool and creepy and it made much more sense than the final edit. Yeesh... that tail uncurling and sticking straight out... that is a visual that leaves me feeling nasty!

Yeah, I think Ridley probably felt it showed too much of the ALIEN too soon and it does still look a little like a guy in a suit, which was his biggest fear. But it is well known that Bolaji Badejo worked with mimes and other movement specialist to make the creatures movements very inhuman looking. Lot of interesting test footage of him walking very odd and slowly in the DVD extra's.

 

[cyberpred]

Madagascar is ahead of Prometheus.

Guess the word is out.


C.:cool

 

[Art Andrews]

I'm happy to miss out on this the same way I'm happy to miss out on Alien3. I don't need it, it takes the ALIEN out of the Alien franchise, and having this be the creation of mankind is uninteresting and cheap.

They turned the Space Jockey into a freaking suit, man. Throughout the entire duration of the original Alien, they tried not to have the creature look like just some guy in a suit, yet with Prometheus, they're more than happy to showcase that the most alien looking thing from the original franchise is in fact nothing but a guy in a suit. Yeah. I'm not going to give pats on that back for that effort.

Have you actually seen Prometheus because neither of these statements make a lot of sense to me.

Neither the alien or the engineer is a creation of mankind. What are you talking about?

In regard to the Space Jockey being a suit... Giger's design is all about biomechanics and the integration of the organic with technology. Dallas talks about the Space Jockey looking like he was growing out of the chair in Alien and they show in Prometheus that while the chair and the Engineer aren't one thing that the chair does integrate with the pilot. And we do see that the engineers, like the alien itself is very integrated with their suit as it is growing into the sleeping engineer's neck. It sounds like you were just disappointed with the direction they went, but it wasn't unfaithful to either Giger's original concepts or to what was shown in Alien. There is a vast difference in simply not liking a choice someone else made and the choice being a poor choice.

 

[ghostryder]

Prometheus - American Cinematographer

 

[Bryancd]

Madagascar is ahead of Prometheus.

Guess the word is out.


C.:cool

It was from opening weekend. Not sure how a G rated family film competes with an R rated sic-fi film. I would say 2nd is pretty spiffy in this case.

 

[Too Much Garlic]

Wow! Why wasn't that included in the film! That was very cool and creepy and it made much more sense than the final edit. Yeesh... that tail uncurling and sticking straight out... that is a visual that leaves me feeling nasty!

I know I would have laughed if I had seen that in the movie. Seeing the whole alien like that, the way it moved, screams man in a suit. Leaving it to brief cuts and barely seeing the creature is why the movie is effective.

 

[Art Andrews]

I know I would have laughed if I had seen that in the movie. Seeing the whole alien like that, the way it moved, screams man in a suit. Leaving it to brief cuts and barely seeing the creature is why the movie is effective.

They definitely spend too much time on it, but I think more of this should have indeed been in the movie, especially the tail uncurling and that odd crab-scuttle.

 

[Too Much Garlic]

Really? I don't follow that. What is in the movie, you don't know what's up and down or the real shape of this thing all throughout the movie. It moves, uncoils and is generally really weird and at times shapeless.

When you then get to the end where it's hanging outside the ship you suddenly kill the whole thing by showing the alien. That's about the weakest scene in the whole movie, in my opinion.

 

[Art Andrews]

Really? I don't follow that. What is in the movie, you don't know what's up and down or the real shape of this thing all throughout the movie. It moves, uncoils and is generally really weird and at times shapeless.

When you then get to the end where it's hanging outside the ship you suddenly kill the whole thing by showing the alien. That's about the weakest scene in the whole movie, in my opinion.

Perhaps the problem is that I already had seen photos of the entire Alien by the time I saw the movie (I didn't see Alien until the 90s and had already seen Aliens) so for me, them not showing more of it was just annoying and frustrating, but I can understand how it would be more mysterious back in the 70s, never really seeing the whole thing and wondering what it was.

 

[Bryancd]

Oh yeah, as a first time viewer back in 1979 it scared the CRAP out of me.

 

[Kit Rae]

They did film that for Lambert's death scene.

Alien deleted scene: Alien attacks Lambert - good quality - YouTube

I don't think that is the scene Ridley was talking about. It was earlier in the film and remember him describing it as legs over the shoulders like a contortionist, looking unlike the Alien until it unfolded and stood up. This was from one of the dozens magazines with Alien articles that I used to have back then.

Thankfully they did not use that unused scene! A lot of those scenes were unused for a very good reason.

When you then get to the end where it's hanging outside the ship you suddenly kill the whole thing by showing the alien. That's about the weakest scene in the whole movie, in my opinion.

Agreed, that was the only real let down when I saw the film in '79. My father even made the comment as we left the theater, something like "well, that was pretty good until we saw the guy in the rubber suit". For the time I suppose that was all they could do, but it was a let down. I remember the first full body shot we see, holding onto the shuttle hatch, and my fascination and horror with this thing dropping as soon as I saw the arms and legs.

 

[Too Much Garlic]

Perhaps the problem is that I already had seen photos of the entire Alien by the time I saw the movie (I didn't see Alien until the 90s and had already seen Aliens) so for me, them not showing more of it was just annoying and frustrating, but I can understand how it would be more mysterious back in the 70s, never really seeing the whole thing and wondering what it was.

I'd seen the toys before seeing the movie. It still felt stupid to show it at the end, when they had been so successful with totally obscuring its actual shape so you didn't know what you were looking at, throughout the movie.

 

[crabra comander]

A bit silly having the Xeno crab walk. The Xenos are elegant killers. Their profiles match with those dark,dank environments so well. Having one scuttle about is silly, IMO. Now, DAT TAIL...:love

They can leave DAT TAIL in...

 

[blipper]

It sounds like you were just disappointed with the direction they went, but it wasn't unfaithful to either Giger's original concepts or to what was shown in Alien. There is a vast difference in simply not liking a choice someone else made and the choice being a poor choice.

Art - I'm with Jeyl on this. Prometheus and Alien are two incompatible universes as I see it. Alien could be you or me bimbling along in our day to day job until we accidentally stumble across something we were never meant to see. Just for one brief moment we get a glimpse behind a curtain we didn't even know was there and what we saw still near defies adequate description. And we pay the price for that glimpse.

Prometheus on the other hand sets itself up as an epic from the start - we open with an Engineer performing a ritual which immediately tells us it's a different style of movie as no human character in the movie could possibly witness this event, only us - the audience.
And then we have the 'invitations' from our 'creators' - so now we're already prepped as to the direction of the movie - a search for the gods! - pretty grandiose and full of tropes more in line with current mainstream 'big' movies.
Prometheus also seeks to reconcile humans with the Engineer (and thus the 'Alien') species by establishing this infamous 100% DNA link - whereas the Space Jockey in Alien was conceived as something, well, alien. This was the genius of Giger that O'Bannon saw and Scott capitalised on - in creating something that creates a kind of cognitive dissonance for all it's uncomfortable difference to anything people were used to seeing but at the same time offering something vaguely familiar.

To reduce such a tantalising and horrific suggestion to mere veneer for a guy in a suit who turns out to be a distant relative of ours sucks the 'disturbingly possible' from the Space Jockey and now places it firmly into the realm of creation myth, which by and large is a more fairy-tale form of storytelling. It's also just a little bit Scooby Doo.

I would say to Jeyl though that Prometheus is definitely worth watching, and you might even think it perfect -but I have a suspicion you won't, but that won't matter as Alien still has no contender for offering anything quite as thought provoking, imo.

 

[Kit Rae]

EVOLUTION OF THE ALIEN XENOMORPH

Alien - cool, very alien, drool covered, subliminally sexual, and creepy, until the end - when it's just a guy in a rubber suit!

Aliens - guys in rubber and spandex suits again, only cheaper. Rubber cement instead of drool, missing ultra cool domes on the heads. Creepy, insect like cockroach movement, but not "alien" in anyway. Semi cool, but still guys-in-rubber-suits.

Alien 3 - Back to the ultra cool drool covered, domed Alien look of the first film, but now we get an explanation of the arms and legs. Actually changes the opinion of the uncool reveal of the guy-in-rubber suit at the end of Alien. Now we are told they take on characteristics of the host, and now it is cool again!

Alien Resurrection - not quite as cool as Alien 3 aliens, and we find that mixing an alien with a Ripley clone creates a new one that is made entirely out of GREEN JELLO. Goes back to uncool again, and now, funny.

AVP and more AVP - Nevermind. These never happened.

Prometheus - revealed that one of the earliest xenos was actually crossed with DAFFY DUCK! Remains uncool. Conclusion, we don't need to see any more xenos in Alien films. Ever.

 

[Kerr Avon]

EVOLUTION OF THE ALIEN XENOMORPH

Prometheus - revealed that one of the earliest xenos was actually crossed with DAFFY DUCK! Remains uncool. Conclusion, we don't need to see any more xenos in Alien films. Ever.

Yeah, I really wondered what the hell was with Gummo there. Making an Alien with no teeth?

Huh.. maybe it's an analogy.

Their alien at the end had no teeth. Just like the plot of the movie.

 

[Art Andrews]

I have never actually considered the angle you guys are bringing up. Alien was never a mystery to me (again, because I had already seen Aliens and had seen plenty of photos of the entire creature), so this is a pretty interesting spin and idea. I might have to go back and watch it again through those eyes.

I'd seen the toys before seeing the movie. It still felt stupid to show it at the end, when they had been so successful with totally obscuring its actual shape so you didn't know what you were looking at, throughout the movie.

 

[Kit Rae]

Yeah, I really wondered what the hell was with Gummo there. Making an Alien with no teeth?

Huh.. maybe it's an analogy.

Their alien at the end had no teeth. Just like the plot of the movie.

Not to bring up that fact that you seemed to miss a lot of what was right there on screen in Prometheus again...but, all three jaws on Daffy there have teeth Just sayin.

 

[Art Andrews]

Art - I'm with Jeyl on this. Prometheus and Alien are two incompatible universes as I see it.

For me, I see them as VERY different stories about VERY different subjects, but coexisting in the same universe and for me that is part of the appeal. I feel like everything we know about the alien universe set the creature up to be a big deal and every sequel has focused solely on the creature. To me, Prometheus draws back the curtain and says "you were focusing on this creature and you have admired/been frightened by it for years, but it is essentially a very small player on a much larger chess board. It is just a 24 hour cold in the scheme of things and just a failed side project... here you thought it was the focus, but it is really pretty inconsequential in the overall scheme of what is going on in the universe." That idea really appeals to me, but maybe it is not for everyone.

Alien could be you or me bimbling along in our day to day job until we accidentally stumble across something we were never meant to see. Just for one brief moment we get a glimpse behind a curtain we didn't even know was there and what we saw still near defies adequate description. And we pay the price for that glimpse.

A great description of Alien and I think you are right. What I think Prometheus reveals is that the glimpse we saw in Alien was just a toe in the overall body of what the Engineers have created and done and in the movie we aren't shown the whole body, but at least come to see that there is much more out there than we thought.

search for the gods! - pretty grandiose and full of tropes more in line with current mainstream 'big' movies.
Prometheus also seeks to reconcile humans with the Engineer (and thus the 'Alien') species by establishing this infamous 100% DNA link - whereas the Space Jockey in Alien was conceived as something, well, alien. This was the genius of Giger that O'Bannon saw and Scott capitalised on - in creating something that creates a kind of cognitive dissonance for all it's uncomfortable difference to anything people were used to seeing but at the same time offering something vaguely familiar.

I guess I could understand the disappointment here, if you have always hung on the idea of everything having to do with the derelict being truly "alien" and "not like us" to see the new movie only to find out that they ARE like us and not as alien as we thought could be disappointing. I liked it, but I can see how others wouldn't.

To reduce such a tantalising and horrific suggestion to mere veneer for a guy in a suit who turns out to be a distant relative of ours sucks the 'disturbingly possible' from the Space Jockey and now places it firmly into the realm of creation myth, which by and large is a more fairy-tale form of storytelling. It's also just a little bit Scooby Doo.

I suppose certain mindsets are going to be predisposed not to like that direction, but personally I loved that they pushed intelligent design and evolution together and gave us one take on what our "gods" could be and gave us a different perspective on how we might view them and what they might be up to now or how their end came. Maybe some people don't want to hear that story and it is definitely a different direction than the one told in Alien, but I really liked that part of it... much moreso than focusing on the minutia of what was mishandled.

I would say to Jeyl though that Prometheus is definitely worth watching, and you might even think it perfect -but I have a suspicion you won't, but that won't matter as Alien still has no contender for offering anything quite as thought provoking, imo.

Don't misunderstand. It is a far from perfect movie. No explanation in the world is going to make me think that Milburn wasn't an idiot and the scene between him and the cobra worm was not HORRIBLY written, but whether an alien movie or not, this movie sparked my imagination, made me think, made me wonder and made me want to talk to others about the ideas presented, much moreso than anything I have seen in years, and that is what really appeals to me. It gives me more to talk about than whether it sucked or rocked and how tight Scarlett Johansson's pants were. I crave movies that do that and for me, this one did.