Prometheus (Post-release)

[SmilingOtter]

Re: Prometheus - (SPOILERS) ANSWERS to the Engineers - The universe - and Everything

What is in the film implies they create sentient beings and visit them throughout their development as a species, and are worshipped by them. If they want to be the only sentient beings, they would not create other sentient beings.

They were making more of themselves, perhaps to make sure that top species on each planet was essentially the local version of Engineers, rather than what might have developed by chance if they hadn't interfered.

 

[nightrider]

I don't see how the engineers coming back after the crucifixion changes anything. To the contrary, that they came back some 600 years after a failed attempt to wipe us out and in fact did not complete the task only supports Ridley's earlier statements. It could be easily argued that their observation of the movement which sprang up around their "emissary" after his death and that He was not flat out rejected by all of mankind had the effect of staying their hand for the time being. I'm reminded of the story of Abraham pleading with God:

"So the LORD said: The outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is so great, and their sin so grave, that I must go down to see whether or not their actions are as bad as the cry against them that comes to me. I mean to find out. As the men turned and walked on toward Sodom, Abraham remained standing before the LORD.Then Abraham drew near and said: “Will you really sweep away the righteous with the wicked? Suppose there were fifty righteous people in the city; would you really sweep away and not spare the place for the sake of the fifty righteous people within it? Far be it from you to do such a thing, to kill the righteous with the wicked, so that the righteous and the wicked are treated alike! Far be it from you! Should not the judge of all the world do what is just?” The LORD replied: If I find fifty righteous people in the city of Sodom, I will spare the whole place for their sake.

It's important to remember that this film and story is steeped in religious symbology. It's about sacrifice for others in many ways and mans tendencies towards selfishness and the results of that as well as our more "righteous" qualities as exhibited by the captain and co-pilots. We see both represented in this film.

 

[nightrider]

Either way it will be interesting to see where it goes from here.

 

[nightrider]

So now we have to construct an entire method of them genetically engineering a 'lesser life form' and teach it their values and then somehow slip it into Mary when she's asleep so it can spend 30 years growing up before it does anything, and then just happens to get nailed to a tree? Man, we might as well have blank white screens with no sound in theatres if we're all going to just go make it up as we go along!

I mean really, I paid HIM to tell ME a story. I shouldn't be expected to have to make up half the story for the movie I PAID FOR to make sense!

We need to construct nothing, the story is already a well known part of our history. In this context they created a human. One that we may surmise had an enlightened consciousness as the Biblical narrative itself suggests.

30 years? They seeded life on Earth and waited millions of years for it to develop. I don't think time is so relevant as you suggest or seem bothered by in this context. The story as I said is already well known, Ridley only throws in the matter of "who" or "what" it is that is the origin of these preexisting stories thereby giving us the benefit of having to construct nothing but imagine just a little. Don't see what the problem is really.

 

[CessnaDriver]

By "explain", do you mean with a cargo of of alien black goo ampules delivered right to the home world, James Cameron style.

Yes I want to see that...err, no I don't

If they don't see reason..... goop 'em! LOL



It's rather non-sensical to me though they would want to snuff out anything. The universe is infinate, the galaxy massive,
hell our spiral arm is massive. Room enough and then some.
What were we hurting? Nothing.

So why insist upon snuffing out intelligent life that in the grand scheme of things really isn't anything at all to worry about. Especially with the powers they have being so advanced. Why even bother?
Seems they would be far more interested in larger things, other dimensions or parallell universes to explore, universe creation perhaps.

In the time they seeded us they should have advanced to levels far beyond concern about some life creation hobby they had once upon a time.

I think they would have moved on and all that's left of that endeavor was an old base with a few military drone soldiers.

So maybe she and David will find that we were a discarded hobby.

 

[Kit Rae]

It's rather non-sensical to me though they would want to snuff out anything. The universe is infinate, the galaxy massive, hell our spiral arm is massive. Room enough and then some.
What were we hurting? Nothing.

The black stuff does not snuff out. It changes or destroys and remakes into something new. That's an alien concept to most of humanity.

So why insist upon snuffing out intelligent life that in the grand scheme of things really isn't anything at all to worry about. Especially with the powers they have being so advanced. Why even bother?

You could also ask why bother to make a new species, but they did. For that matter, ask why would any godlike being would make another being in their image. Some of the ancient artwork implies they were worshiped as gods. What they desired may have simply been dominion over their creations, and to be worshiped by them.

Holloway's answer to that question was "because we could."

 

[Bryancd]

The black stuff does not snuff out. It changes or destroys and remakes into something new. That's an alien concept to most of humanity.

How many times do I have to say it?! It's the Genesis device from ST-TWOK. :facepalm

I've said it like 5 times and no one seems to understand...:rolleyes

 

[Kit Rae]

Re: Prometheus - (SPOILERS) ANSWERS to the Engineers - The universe - and Everything

They were making more of themselves, perhaps to make sure that top species on each planet was essentially the local version of Engineers, rather than what might have developed by chance if they hadn't interfered.

Except nothing in the film indicates this, and everything presented in the film to show what the black stuff does was anything but converting humans to Engineers...well maybe one was, but he got toasted

 

[Kit Rae]

I don't see how the engineers coming back after the crucifixion changes anything. To the contrary, that they came back some 600 years after a failed attempt to wipe us out and in fact did not complete the task only supports Ridley's earlier statements. It could be easily argued that their observation of the movement which sprang up around their "emissary" after his death and that He was not flat out rejected by all of mankind had the effect of staying their hand for the time being. I'm reminded of the story of Abraham pleading with God:

That's another way of looking at it, but then why not put the star pattern in the Christian bible? They were obviously around all through the rise of Christianity, so why not influence it?

As I said, it can be interpreted either way, but there is an element missing to make either way definitive, which I'm sure was intentional. Shaw birthing a Cthulu on Christmas day was not exactly symbolic of the birth of ****** either

Something definitely DID stay their hand. We could come up with lots of theories about revolts among the Engineers and things like that, but nothing is indicated in the film to flesh that out, nor is it needed.

 

[Kit Rae]

 

[nightrider]

You're right and I think just the title "Prometheus" infers that there is conflict among the "gods". Prometheus is a type of Lucifer who in the occult systems such as theosophy and others is the one who rebels and brings "light" or enlightenment to mankind. The "savior" so to speak. Same story, although I can't say I care for the Luciferian implications, lol.

 

[nightrider]

I think the story fits far more neatly into already existing occult/religious belief systems than many are giving it credit for. It definitely leans more to the occult side which only stands to reason given it's "Chariots of the Gods" basis. Zechariah Sitchin's theories on the Annunaki I feel can also shed a lot of "light" on where perhaps the writer and Ridley's minds were at with this.

So we have an alien race who creates humans. One faction wants to destroy them. Another faction, perhaps led by Prometheus or Lucifer(the light bearer/ fire bringer) wants to save mankind and bring them knowledge and enlightenment. Rebellion and conflict ensue, mankind is in the middle........

 

[SmilingOtter]

I also think if you are going to go outside what is shown in the film, then I think you do have to listen to what Ridley, Spaiths, and Lindeloff have said, as they were the storytellers.

...the opposite conclusion can be drawn to what Ridley refers to in this interview.

Either Ridley is a reliable source about the back story or he isn't.

If the plot for "Avengers" is "1 + 2 = 3" then the plot for "Prometheus" is "1 + a + b + c = x, solve for x" and the instructors can't agree on what they think the variables stand for.

 

[Kit Rae]

You're right and I think just the title "Prometheus" infers that there is conflict among the "gods". Prometheus is a type of Lucifer who in the occult systems such as theosophy and others is the one who rebels and brings "light" or enlightenment to mankind. The "savior" so to speak. Same story, although I can't say I care for the Luciferian implications, lol.

The Prometheus reference was more to the Titan in Greek mythology, and also a Frankenstein reference (The Post Modern Prometheus). Ridley and Damon have made that clear in interviews.

He created mankind from clay and then stole fire and gave it to them to use, allowing them to grow as a civilization. It's a play on what the Engineers did, and Weyland.

Zeus punished Prometheus for this, as the Engineer's symbolically punished Weyland, and the Engineers themselves were punished by their own black goo creation turning on them.

You want to try and play God, this is what happens to ya

 

[Kit Rae]

Either Ridley is a reliable source about the back story or he isn't.

That's not the back story, it was an early script idea, if you are referring to the '***** was on of them' thing.

And as defining the back story, Ridley and Damon both have stated different ideas/explanations on several points, including this, as they should. I just go by what is actually in the film.

 

[Jedi2016]

Anybody else get the idea that what was happening to Holloway was the same thing that happened to the Engineer at the opening of the film? But he drank only a single drop, so the effect was slower and less pronounced, but may have ended with a similar result.

 

[Bryancd]

Anybody else get the idea that what was happening to Holloway was the same thing that happened to the Engineer at the opening of the film? But he drank only a single drop, so the effect was slower and less pronounced, but may have ended with a similar result.

Yes, I assumed Holloway was going through a similar molecular breakdown but that then begs the question as to what was happening to Fifield. He seemed to be, and according to the Art book, transforming into something.

 

[CB2001]

Yes, I assumed Holloway was going through a similar molecular breakdown but that then begs the question as to what was happening to Fifield. He seemed to be, and according to the Art book, transforming into something.

Same here.

 

[nightrider]

Yes, Prometheus is definitely from Greek mythology, just pointing out the parallel with the Biblical narrative. There is much crossover between the Greek gods and the "sons of God" of Genesis as well as Sumerian deities. They are all central parts of the theories of people such as Erich Von Daniken whose work draws on and focuses attention to the similarities of these different mythologies.

The Greek Prometheus and the Biblical Lucifer are both one in the same just approached from different perspectives in different mythologies. Savior in one, deceiver in the other.

Keeping these crossovers and similarities in mind is important for understanding the central themes in the film as they likewise are weaved from the same mixing of mythologies.

 

[Kit Rae]

I doubt Ridley and Damon got into the depth of Prometheus' parallels in luciferiansim. Based on what they have said in interviews, I think they were on a much more simplistic level - as in the Frankenstein parallels Of course, they have Shaw's demonic squid baby being born on ******'s birthday, so you never know...nah.

I hope they were not trying to pull anything more from Von Daniken's garbage other than the mankind-was-guided-by-aliens idea (I cringed when I saw the lid of Pacals sarcophagus was one of the artifacts!). I really don't see anything more than that in the film, thank God.