Prometheus (Post-release)
- Thread starter Vivek
- Start date
I hear ya, and you make some good points. I totally agree....the tie to Alien was a distraction. If from the very beginning they had said "Ridley Scott's triumphant return to space" instead of "Ridley Scott's triumphant explanation of the Space Jockey (and we promise no xenos!)"....I dunno. In the end, I did want to be scared and was somewhat disappointed by that not happening. BTW, Aliens terrified me as a kid.
I have enjoyed the discussion immensely and it actually makes me want to see it again in theatres.
rodneyfaile
Sr Member
It's a fine line between explaining too much about something and not explaining enough.
I think he did great. Still a lot of mystery around the space jockey.
The connection to the Alien movies is very attenuated. This isn't an Alien movie. It's something completely different.
I think he did great. Still a lot of mystery around the space jockey.
The connection to the Alien movies is very attenuated. This isn't an Alien movie. It's something completely different.
AggieChick42
Active Member
Ridley Scott wants this to be it's own "child" as he said. It will faintly lead to the Alien movie but for the most part it's all it's own
I just got back from my second viewing... right on the heals of watching Alien (Director's Cut) this morning.... a boy... are these two different movies!
Here are a couple of things that really stood out.
First, Prometheus is 10 times better on the second viewing (and I liked it the first time). Between this thread and watching several interviews, there is just so much more meaning and you can see a lot of things that might not have been apparent the first time around and isn't that what everyone loves about a great movie? You just keep getting more with each viewing?
Kit Rae is dead on with most of his commentary on explaining things that might not be obvious or that seem like glaring plot holes. Most of them ARE explained. The one thing that does still stand out as absolutely idiotic on every level is Milburn's approach to the eel. There is just no rational explanation for his actions and a second viewing made it only seem more unrealistic. Even Milburn and Fifield's getting lost makes sense as well as why Shaw's cesarean is essentially ignored (although that scene does still feel truncated) on a second viewing. Still, as with ANY sci-fi movie (yes, including Alien and Blade Runner), there is some need for the suspension of disbelief. I suppose for those who don't want to like this movie, you just ratchet that down for this movie and ratchet it up for ones you like. I dunno...
In my early postings here, after my first viewing of the movie, I felt that David was a sympathetic character who wanted to be human... and while he does show a brief twinge of pain when Weyland says he lacks a soul... I couldn't have been more wrong about his overall character. He is very arrogant, very condescending and while I know people want to believe he is a robot so he can't be evil, he is as close to a "bad guy" as you can get and some of his mocking comments borders on pure nastiness. He is a fascinating study but he is not the innocent good guy I had thought he was.
I think I like Charlize Theron even better this time around. She may not have been a complex character, but I really liked her.
Having just watched Alien this morning, the primary difference I see between the two is the pace of the film. Alien is slow... VERY slow. It lingers on each image and gives you a LOT of time to take it all in and enjoy the universe that has been created for you. And what a universe it is. I really saw the set decoration anew today and the detail is simply breathtaking. There is just SO much going on in every set! I can't imagine what it took to build those. By comparison, while Prometheus is beautiful, it is very sparse and very antiseptic. Getting back to the point, while Alien takes its time to lure you in, Prometheus feels like it is an ADD kid... and maybe that is just the pace of movies, but it was literally jarring going from one movie to the other. The pace could be described as nothing short of frenetic. Everything went by SO fast and there was a sense of "ok, we got through with that, now on to the next thing." I am going to guess that is the difference between a modern film and a film from the 70s and not something specific to these two movies, but it was surprising to see just how much difference their was.
While I still maintain that Prometheus is NOT a character driven movie, there actually IS more to a number of the characters than I initially gave them credit for. Still nothing like the attention that was given in Alien, but they do have some depth, and they are, as a whole, more likable than anyone in Alien.
All in all, I have gained a bit more appreciation for Alien, and I am liking Prometheus even more than I did after the first viewing!
SSGT Kitten
Active Member
I will certainly agree to this; I just saw it again (in pseudo-IMAX) and it was much better the 2nd time. I think a lot of that has to do with the discussions in this thread that I have read.
I actually thought about this specifically during my 2nd viewing. I think he's a snake person. Seriously. There are cat people, and there are dog people, and I know quite people who go nuts over snakes. I could see him being scared of the alien corpse, and then suddenly, "whoa a cool snake and I can name it after me SWEET" I felt the same way with Halloway. On the 2nd viewing, I realized he really is kind of immature. He makes the christmas presents comment, and he is the one take off his helmet first. Why? Cause he's acting immature and wants to talk to the Engineers and he wants it now. When he doesn't get it, he gets drunk.
Quoted for truth. David is much like Ash. He is superior to the humans, he knows it, he has a mission and he WILL do it. I can't wait to see what will happen now that David's "control" (via Peter Weyland) is gone and he can do whatever he chooses.
I would respectably disagree. I think it is a character driven movie. My first viewing I thought the characters were the crew of the Prometheus, as i was in ALIEN, and I was disappointed. In retrospect, I think it is a family driven movie, especially from the perspective of parents and children. The Engineers to the humans, Shaw to her father, Vickers to hers, David and Weyland. The Engineers, Shaw, Vickers, Weyland, and most especially David are the characters that are explored. Everyone else, even the Captain, is more a window dressing and about as important as model of the ship's engines to get them to the planet. I personally think that most of the other crew could be swapped about with any number of characters and it wouldn't matter. It's those five, and the themes they address, that make the movie good.
And as an aside, I do think there were a lot of themes in ALIEN besides scary monster attack. That may be the result of lots of movie viewings, but ALIEN is by far my favourite movie, and I think there are a lot of subtle themes in it. The relationship between the "lower class" engineers and the "upper class" pilots, the corporate expendibility policy, the unforgiving but almost understandble killing by alien creature, the fear of the unknown and the unexpected (and I credit Ian Holm and Ash for that). Prometheus is not ALIEN, but I never expected it to be. It is a good movie (and I even thought that the first time around) and I think it will be better as we all explore it more in depth. I daresay even the first time I saw ALIEN I didn't appreciate it as much as I do now. Prometheus may not be to the same extent, but I do look forward to the blu-ray.
And I want that shotgun Weyland's bodyguard carried.
Charlie
Last edited by a moderator:
SmilingOtter
Master Member
Neither here nor there, but I'd completely forgotten that the "looped scream" sound effect in the Prometheus trailer was also in the original "Alien" trailer, starting when the egg begins to crack...
Alien (1979) Trailer - YouTube
This bit of trivia is probably in the "Not a Prequel" thread, but I didn't follow it all that closely.
Alien (1979) Trailer - YouTube
This bit of trivia is probably in the "Not a Prequel" thread, but I didn't follow it all that closely.
Clutch
Master Member
Likeable characters? Shaw's boyfriend, whatever his name is, is a total whiner ********* with some mean-spiritedness thrown in. The robot is evil incarnate. Geologist guy - major *********. Captain - ********* because of the lack of concern for the two guys trapped in a freaking alien cave. Charlize - ********* because although she is concerned over the safety of the ship/crew, it is more of her own self-preservation. The two pilot guys were way too eager to just die. Weyland - too funny looking to even take seriously. Cobra touch guy was an absolute idiot. Wasn't there some other woman on the team who had maybe two words to say?
ghostryder
Legendary Member
crabra comander
Master Member
I like Willie's very good break from the heated debate's...
Yes, Prometheus works on so many different levels. The family issues, the creation issues, the "Hey let's not pet that" issues...the creators and the created's relationship is explored, and, perhaps, the created's curiosity, both ours and David's.
David isn't "intentionally" malicious. At least that's what we want to believe from something that has no emotions. Then you observe how the android in Alien reacts. It matches up with this one so much. He spikes his drink in Prometheus, in Alien he negates the quarantine Ripley tries to set. Ash observes the Alien and try his harder to prevent it from dying.
Yes, Prometheus works on so many different levels. The family issues, the creation issues, the "Hey let's not pet that" issues...the creators and the created's relationship is explored, and, perhaps, the created's curiosity, both ours and David's.
David isn't "intentionally" malicious. At least that's what we want to believe from something that has no emotions. Then you observe how the android in Alien reacts. It matches up with this one so much. He spikes his drink in Prometheus, in Alien he negates the quarantine Ripley tries to set. Ash observes the Alien and try his harder to prevent it from dying.
Noeland
Master Member
Lets not forget the film is about sacrifice too. Characters repeatedly sacrifice themselves for others in Prometheus. From the first engineer we meet, to Charlie telling Vickers to torch him, and the bridge crew of course.
And I still maintain that some scientists lack common sense and logic. I have a friend up in Michigan who is a real life rocket scientist, or really, he was. He runs his own business now. He's easily the smartest person I know, but he is constantly distracted and his actions often leave me shaking my head. He does dumb things some times. His wife won't let him near the kitchen because he's caught it on fire twice.
Milburn was abruptly interested in something living (as opposed to dead) for the same reason Kane stuck his head in an alien egg after it opened in front of him. Curiosity and fascination. Was it a stupid thing to do? Yes, obviously it was on both counts. I still like both scenes.
I agree that Prometheus is not the same kind of film as Alien. I never expected it to be though. The visuals alone indicated that Prometheus was not a film about claustrophobic anxiety.
And I still maintain that some scientists lack common sense and logic. I have a friend up in Michigan who is a real life rocket scientist, or really, he was. He runs his own business now. He's easily the smartest person I know, but he is constantly distracted and his actions often leave me shaking my head. He does dumb things some times. His wife won't let him near the kitchen because he's caught it on fire twice.
Milburn was abruptly interested in something living (as opposed to dead) for the same reason Kane stuck his head in an alien egg after it opened in front of him. Curiosity and fascination. Was it a stupid thing to do? Yes, obviously it was on both counts. I still like both scenes.
I agree that Prometheus is not the same kind of film as Alien. I never expected it to be though. The visuals alone indicated that Prometheus was not a film about claustrophobic anxiety.
Noeland
Master Member
I like that their cloaks are the same color as the stones. Very cool shot.
On my first viewing, I pretty much dismissed Halloway, but I actually felt there was a lot more there the second time around. What I saw was someone almost as eager as Weyland to meet his maker. He DESPERATELY wanted answers and was so intent on getting them that he repeatedly stepped past logic and safety (leaving the ship with only 6 hours of daylight left... taking off his helmet first...) I see Halloway as a bit of a Fox Mulder character, where Shaw DOES believe (because she chooses to do so) Halloway WANTS to believe and you see that in his actions which I would agree are immature, but moreso, are driven by the belief that he is going to find answers he has been desperately seeking. When they find out all the Engineers are dead, he DOES act immature... very immature, and even though they brought back a head, which Shaw is fascinate by, he doesn't care. He has no interest in the scientific discovery, only focused on the fact that he isn't any closer to getting his answers. While his character arc was small, I did think him purposefully having Vickers incinerate him was a SLIGHT bit of redemption for his character, putting the safety of the ship first. I also thought there was more to his interaction with David as there was a clear animosity between them that was bordering on nastiness. Given his and David's previous conversations, I am not at all surprised David picked Halloway to infect.
I think that is the real lesson to learn from this movie. Don't pet that.
Maybe... I dunno. I can buy it a bit more with Kane. With Milburn, that thing was clearly showing signs of aggression and he just kept on... but then, I have seen people continue to try to pet a dog that is snarling at them and then are surprised when they get bit, so you might be right.
Birdie
Master Member
I kinda like to think that Fifield and Milburn spotted something interesting and less 'Massive Dead Alieny' up a sub corridor, and wandered off to investigate. Maybe some alien ganja plant :lol
It would be interesting if the deleted scenes throws more light on some of the more contentious issues in the movie. If stuff was shot elaborating on various strange character beats, it would certainly be rhe case that Ridley shot himself in the foot by over-editing.
Would love to see the scripts.
It would be interesting if the deleted scenes throws more light on some of the more contentious issues in the movie. If stuff was shot elaborating on various strange character beats, it would certainly be rhe case that Ridley shot himself in the foot by over-editing.
Would love to see the scripts.
SSGT Kitten
Active Member
I read one interview with the actor who played Halloway (can't remember his name) and he basically said that Halloway was a "robot racist" although he didn't "intentionally" manifest that. I thought it was very good dynamic between Halloway and David; David is clearly superior, and trying not to rub it in, and Halloway knows that he himself is inferior but constantly tries to put David down to boost himself. It is a subtle dynamic, but it meshes well with the story so far. I can almost see Halloway wanting to talk with the Engineers just so he could tell David "ha we're better than you!". Even if David would have to be the interpreter.
Charlie
Stormy320
Sr Member
CB2001
Master Member
Just got back from watching Prometheus with my family. Now, I've got to admit, I don't see the why there are so many negative reviews for this film (except maybe for the fact that people were expecting another Alien film and didn't realize it when he's clearly stated as such). In my opinion, this film is just as good as Alien and Ridley Scott hasn't lost his edge (which I will admit, when it came to Robin Hood, I was beginning to worry).
My Dad came up with an interesting theory about the Engineers and about why they created us and why they all of a sudden wanted to destroy us. Basically, at the beginning we see that the Engineer who contributes his DNA for life on our planet is wearing a white robe, while the ones at the "base" were dressed in black-style suits. My Dad thinks that there may be two different factions, one that are scientists and the other who are warriors. Basically, the scientists saw that their civilization was falling apart due to the warrior faction basically wiping out whatever may be left of their group. So, the scientists took it upon themselves to try to preserve their species by basically sacrificing one of themselves to create us. And the warrior class discovered what the scientists did, saw us as some sort of abomination and set out to destroy us. This would explain why the one that was in hibernation attacked them and was trying to take off to Earth with the cargo to Earth.
Honestly, that makes a lot of sense, but that's just our opinions and we could very well be wrong.
But I will admit, I liked a lot of the nods to Alien, including how the opening shot of Earth looked mimicked one of the shots of the egg in the original trailer. Also, did anyone else think the bit where we see David talk to a cryo-sleeping Weyland was borrowed from Dark Star, which was co-written by Dan O'Bannon? To me, it seemed like a shoutout, especially since we all know that without Dark Star and the alien in that, it lead O'Bannon to create the story that became Alien.
My Dad came up with an interesting theory about the Engineers and about why they created us and why they all of a sudden wanted to destroy us. Basically, at the beginning we see that the Engineer who contributes his DNA for life on our planet is wearing a white robe, while the ones at the "base" were dressed in black-style suits. My Dad thinks that there may be two different factions, one that are scientists and the other who are warriors. Basically, the scientists saw that their civilization was falling apart due to the warrior faction basically wiping out whatever may be left of their group. So, the scientists took it upon themselves to try to preserve their species by basically sacrificing one of themselves to create us. And the warrior class discovered what the scientists did, saw us as some sort of abomination and set out to destroy us. This would explain why the one that was in hibernation attacked them and was trying to take off to Earth with the cargo to Earth.
Honestly, that makes a lot of sense, but that's just our opinions and we could very well be wrong.
But I will admit, I liked a lot of the nods to Alien, including how the opening shot of Earth looked mimicked one of the shots of the egg in the original trailer. Also, did anyone else think the bit where we see David talk to a cryo-sleeping Weyland was borrowed from Dark Star, which was co-written by Dan O'Bannon? To me, it seemed like a shoutout, especially since we all know that without Dark Star and the alien in that, it lead O'Bannon to create the story that became Alien.
I desperately want to know the story behind this as it, along with the entire hive/pyramid, denote some type of religion held by the Enigeers which begs the question of who made them and whom/what are they worshipping. This is tantalizing stuff and I really hope an additional 30 minutes makes it into the Blu-ray as opposed to 30 seconds.
Similar threads
