Production Used Jaws Clapperboard?
- Thread starter JMSupp
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Stairstars
Well-Known Member
Curious...Bill is over 100 years old....how is his health?
JMSupp
Well-Known Member
I had a long response to the edited description, and I keep revising it. I'm trying to find a generous way to phrase things, and I keep coming up short. Something is fishy...
Simply put, I don't buy the revised description one bit.
The "B" clapperboard was owned by Rexford Metz until it was acquired by Indignate, right? And he sold it through The Prop Store in 2016? Which, as far as I can tell, was the first time photos of the back of the clapperboard appeared publicly. So in order for the current story of the "A" slate to hold water, whoever modified the the "A" slate in 2005 must have had access to photos of the back of the "B" slate, or even the original slate. Period. Otherwise, it would have been impossible for the artist to recreate it in such accurate detail.
I'm going to ignore the fact that it makes no sense whatsoever to alter the primary filming slate to resemble a secondary one.
Simply put, I don't buy the revised description one bit.
The "B" clapperboard was owned by Rexford Metz until it was acquired by Indignate, right? And he sold it through The Prop Store in 2016? Which, as far as I can tell, was the first time photos of the back of the clapperboard appeared publicly. So in order for the current story of the "A" slate to hold water, whoever modified the the "A" slate in 2005 must have had access to photos of the back of the "B" slate, or even the original slate. Period. Otherwise, it would have been impossible for the artist to recreate it in such accurate detail.
I'm going to ignore the fact that it makes no sense whatsoever to alter the primary filming slate to resemble a secondary one.
JMSupp
Well-Known Member
Okay, if this is true, then somebody, somewhere, is pulling a fast one. There are a couple of possibilities. I feel like I need to break out the yarn and thumbtacks to track all the connections... I'm just going to ignore the physical evidence at this point.
A) Indignate is faking text conversations and making up all of his history with the "B" slate. I think this is highly unlikely, and I imagine fairly easy to disprove. (I'm just laying out possibilities, in no way am I questioning Indignate's character at all. After the Ron Shanko cameo in the Phaser thread, I'd like to be ready to acknowledge any possibility!) At the end of the day, what he's saying is just confirming suspicions rather then creating them.
B) The consigner and/or collector has managed to fool Heritage/Profiles by making up a fake "Confirmation of Sale", and followed up with somehow managing to have Bill Butler and/or his family confirm the story. I'll get back to this.
C) Heritage is doubling down on this, and everything in the modified description is made up in order to sell this thing. I honestly don't want to think of this as a possibility, because that would open up a whole can of worms. I try to think the best of people, and give everyone the benefit of telling the truth as they see it. This one is fraught with assumptions and trouble. Frankly, I'd like to believe THEY believe in the slate and the story, and can't accept differing opinions, rather then willful deception, but I'm having trouble thinking that is the case.
Those are the three most likely cases, in my mind, and 2 out of three have a profit motive.
Back to B) for a moment. Now break out the yarn, kids.
In order for the revised description to be true, it sounds like someone at HA spoke to Bill Butler and/or his family. Now, Indignate's text thread directly refutes this. So in order for the description to be true either Indignate or HA is talking to someone who isn't Bill Butler or his family.
OK, so let's assume Indignate IS talking to Butler's wife. I think it's safe to assume he is. So that would have to mean HA is talking to someone... that isn't Bill Butler. That's crazy talk! Imagine the amount of effort that would take. First, get a well done fake slate made, put together a fake letter of provenance from the collector (who may or may not be a consignor). Then, when questioned by HA, be able to provide a phone number for a person claiming to be Billy Butler to back up the whole thing with a convoluted story. That's just... nuts. I don't deny the amount of effort that someone would go through to perpetuate a fraud, but that just seems like way too much work, and way too much risk. Is it worth a $100k payout?
Feel free to poke holes in any part of this, and find any points I may be missing.
ch3ckme0wt
New Member
I don't think it's just a 100k payout. The Godfather slate was just pulled as well. I'm willing to bet it was consigned by the same person. Maybe they have other things in the auction as well?
Stairstars
Well-Known Member
Read the first line, James:
The Godfather Production Used Clapperboard (Paramount, 1972). THIS LOT HAS BEEN WITHDRAWN.
Seems, they chose to leave it posted but withdrawn.
The Godfather Production Used Clapperboard (Paramount, 1972). THIS LOT HAS BEEN WITHDRAWN.
Seems, they chose to leave it posted but withdrawn.
JMSupp
Well-Known Member
Thanks! I missed that... because it looks like you can still bid on it. Weird way to do it.
Lightning
Master Member
I'll say that absolutely no one would care that the slate had different numbers on it. All that matters is that it was a Jaws Clapperboard. It's not like they were going to modify Spielberg to match his younger self.
That doesn't sound that convoluted. It's what, 3 steps? If one person is both the slate forger and the writer of the provenance and the consignor, you just need an co-conspirator who can convincingly sound old, unless they are good at changing their voice then one person could do it all with two phone numbers.
JMSupp
Well-Known Member
I agree completely. To most fans, they wouldn't care. So why would they send it off to have it made up to match the "B" slate? Just change the scene numbers, and be done with it. There is no need to add fake wear, chalk marks, tape residue, etc...
The steps are straightforward, it's the story that convoluted. To me anyway...
ch3ckme0wt
New Member
The story doesn’t make sense because the A clapperboard doesn’t have its own native wear marks in addition to the allegedly added B marks. Also, an A clapperboard is more valuable, so why would you change it? It clearly seems like a lie.
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JMSupp
Well-Known Member
That is an excellent point! Sometimes, I miss the forest for the trees. Yeah, the lack of any native wear marks is telling. So it would have to be either in mint condition before it was modified, or completely refinished. In addition, it would have to have been stored rather carefully since 2005 to prevent any new marks.
And not to flog the horse here, but the construction materials also differ. Two completely different wood profiles in use:
Wow. This is crazy!
Did he or his wife get ahold of anyone at HA to discuss this?
Things like this bug me. This suit was not used in Batman Forever. More than likely it is the Looney Tunes suit or a production made suit.
The gloves, belt and the color of the suit are completely wrong. The suit was gunmetal gray that was used in the film. The cape would have also been a gunmetal gray but a slightly different shade. Only the cowl looks to be in fact a Forever piece if it is the proper color.
The gloves, belt and the color of the suit are completely wrong. The suit was gunmetal gray that was used in the film. The cape would have also been a gunmetal gray but a slightly different shade. Only the cowl looks to be in fact a Forever piece if it is the proper color.
Lot 42 - Entertainment Memorabilia Live Auction - Batmans (Val Kilmer) Sonar Batsuit Display | Prop Store - Ultimate Movie Collectables
p classl1desctextwhitestrongSPAN STYLEfont-size14pxThis lot will be auctioned on Tuesday, November 9th. The auction will begin at 300pm GMT and lots are sold sequentially via live auctioneer tune in to the live streaming broadcast on auction day to follow the pace. Note other lots in the auction...
propstore.com
JMSupp
Well-Known Member
From the description:
I can't really comment much on the color, as lighting and photography makes a huge difference. It doesn't appear to have the same sheen that it did on screen, but I don't know enough about how the foam rubber was painted to know if it wears off easy, or what.
They do call out the belt as being from a different suit, but seem to have missed doing so on the gauntlets. As a curious side note, I've heard that the Loony Tunes suit used the "Panther" belt, and a black version of the Sonar Suit was used by Christopher Nolan to audition actors for Batman Begins. So it looks like you could be right!
Have you emailed the Prop Store?
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