Picard S2
- Thread starter Mottrex
- Start date
Last edited:
Who's Jeff?
It's a Kev Smith thing.... I watch too much Fatman Beyond...Who's Jeff?
Ironically tho, his co host, Marc Bernardin is one of the listed producers on the front titles of Picard...
He actually talked about Picard on a recent ep and had little to say other than he was in the room, and some of the ideas they talked about are in it, but mostly it's a diff show... didn't sound like he even watched it.
Last edited:
Gotcha!
asalaw
Sr Member
OK… I just finished suffering through Picard S2 despite having sworn never to watch it—I had a compelling reason that I won’t go into now. It’s not important anyway.
I’ve read through much of the thread and you guys have adeptly covered just about every problem with this disaster of a show, so I’ll just touch on the lowlights in my notes (yes, I took notes—never mind why).
I found the first two episodes promising, but the show jumped the shark pretty early in E3 when Picard was relegated to a side character in his own series—a common technique now (see SW and MCU). Picard has gone from central character to sideline persuader; he spends the whole season persuading other characters to do what the plot needs done.
E4: Kirk Thatcher’s reappearance was excruciatingly cringeworthy and should have been cut. And Seven can suddenly drive a car now? That really broke the needle on my BS-O-Meter(TM). And the Borg Queen getting into a character’s head to plant self-doubt—nah, never seen that before.
E5: What, the eeeeeeevil ICE Nazis forgot to take Pedro’s phone? The psychologist revealed as being Q fooled nobody—they did nothing to disguise DeLancie’s voice. There’s nothing more taxing on my patience than a story whose characters can’t see the painfully obvious. The Europa mission is the “butterfly effect?” We get this explained at the end, and of course it’s more woke wish fulfillment (and a retcon of First Contact). And the party heist plan is lifted right out of one of the Mission Impossible films—the one where Simon Pegg has to go through the “gait measuring” security system while Tom Cruise does that underwater disk swap. At least they stole it from another Paramount property.
E6: A MUSICAL NUMBER???? WHAT IN THE HIGH HOLY EMULSIFIED **** IS THIS????? AND THE BAND, OF COURSE, JUST PICKS UP THE TUNE AND PLAYS ALONG? WHERE IS SECURITY DURING ALL THIS? WHY DOES GOD HATE ME?????
E7: Picard’s entire coma episode, and his whole childhood backstory subplot, is just story padding to get them to ten episodes. And also, simultaneously, a reductionist retcon. At the very end, we’re told that Picard’s entire TNG character arc was just a little boy running away from his repressed pain. Thanks for s***ing on seven years of our lives, Kurtzf***. On a production note, the orange-teal lighting contrast is just as big a cinematography cliché as the anamorphic lens flares that JJ Abrams first polluted the Trek timeline with, and which are just as overused here.
E8: More padding, this time from a character (the FBI agent) whose sole purpose is to hold Picard in place for 60 minutes.
E9: Yeah, let’s interrupt the climax with a flashback. Cuz slowing down the action is always such great technique. And a decades-old firearm Picard just happens to find in an old box in a dungeon just happens to be in perfect operating condition and LOADED! Wow, such writing craft. I truly am in awe.
Kudos to whoever guessed that Agnes was the Borg queen under the mask on the Stargazer. I didn’t see that coming, but then again, I wasn’t anywhere near invested enough to even think about it.
So this was every bit as terribly, lazily written as Strange New Hair. Never again.
I’ve read through much of the thread and you guys have adeptly covered just about every problem with this disaster of a show, so I’ll just touch on the lowlights in my notes (yes, I took notes—never mind why).
I found the first two episodes promising, but the show jumped the shark pretty early in E3 when Picard was relegated to a side character in his own series—a common technique now (see SW and MCU). Picard has gone from central character to sideline persuader; he spends the whole season persuading other characters to do what the plot needs done.
E4: Kirk Thatcher’s reappearance was excruciatingly cringeworthy and should have been cut. And Seven can suddenly drive a car now? That really broke the needle on my BS-O-Meter(TM). And the Borg Queen getting into a character’s head to plant self-doubt—nah, never seen that before.
E5: What, the eeeeeeevil ICE Nazis forgot to take Pedro’s phone? The psychologist revealed as being Q fooled nobody—they did nothing to disguise DeLancie’s voice. There’s nothing more taxing on my patience than a story whose characters can’t see the painfully obvious. The Europa mission is the “butterfly effect?” We get this explained at the end, and of course it’s more woke wish fulfillment (and a retcon of First Contact). And the party heist plan is lifted right out of one of the Mission Impossible films—the one where Simon Pegg has to go through the “gait measuring” security system while Tom Cruise does that underwater disk swap. At least they stole it from another Paramount property.
E6: A MUSICAL NUMBER???? WHAT IN THE HIGH HOLY EMULSIFIED **** IS THIS????? AND THE BAND, OF COURSE, JUST PICKS UP THE TUNE AND PLAYS ALONG? WHERE IS SECURITY DURING ALL THIS? WHY DOES GOD HATE ME?????
E7: Picard’s entire coma episode, and his whole childhood backstory subplot, is just story padding to get them to ten episodes. And also, simultaneously, a reductionist retcon. At the very end, we’re told that Picard’s entire TNG character arc was just a little boy running away from his repressed pain. Thanks for s***ing on seven years of our lives, Kurtzf***. On a production note, the orange-teal lighting contrast is just as big a cinematography cliché as the anamorphic lens flares that JJ Abrams first polluted the Trek timeline with, and which are just as overused here.
E8: More padding, this time from a character (the FBI agent) whose sole purpose is to hold Picard in place for 60 minutes.
E9: Yeah, let’s interrupt the climax with a flashback. Cuz slowing down the action is always such great technique. And a decades-old firearm Picard just happens to find in an old box in a dungeon just happens to be in perfect operating condition and LOADED! Wow, such writing craft. I truly am in awe.
Kudos to whoever guessed that Agnes was the Borg queen under the mask on the Stargazer. I didn’t see that coming, but then again, I wasn’t anywhere near invested enough to even think about it.
So this was every bit as terribly, lazily written as Strange New Hair. Never again.
kalkamel
Master Member
Interestingly, according to Rob Burnett, season 3 will be back to TNG form for Picard. He's been in contact with Terry Matalas and according to him, Matalas has full reins in Season 3 (Chabon, Goldsman and Kurtzman have less involvement). Rob's been hyping up Season 3 on Twitter and said he's blown away by the script. Let's hope he's right.
Don't get your hopes up, it's still under the Kurtzman heel.
asalaw
Sr Member
Yeah, I’ll believe that when I see it. Except I won’t see it.
Bigdaddy
Master Member
I'm sure you believe that now...addiction is a funny thing!
asalaw
Sr Member
NuTrek is about as addictive as trenchfoot.I'm sure you believe that now...addiction is a funny thing!
Mottrex
Sr Member
Looking forward to S3 then..OK… I just finished suffering through Picard S2 despite having sworn never to watch it—I had a compelling reason that I won’t go into now. It’s not important anyway.
I’ve read through much of the thread and you guys have adeptly covered just about every problem with this disaster of a show, so I’ll just touch on the lowlights in my notes (yes, I took notes—never mind why).
I found the first two episodes promising, but the show jumped the shark pretty early in E3 when Picard was relegated to a side character in his own series—a common technique now (see SW and MCU). Picard has gone from central character to sideline persuader; he spends the whole season persuading other characters to do what the plot needs done.
E4: Kirk Thatcher’s reappearance was excruciatingly cringeworthy and should have been cut. And Seven can suddenly drive a car now? That really broke the needle on my BS-O-Meter(TM). And the Borg Queen getting into a character’s head to plant self-doubt—nah, never seen that before.
E5: What, the eeeeeeevil ICE Nazis forgot to take Pedro’s phone? The psychologist revealed as being Q fooled nobody—they did nothing to disguise DeLancie’s voice. There’s nothing more taxing on my patience than a story whose characters can’t see the painfully obvious. The Europa mission is the “butterfly effect?” We get this explained at the end, and of course it’s more woke wish fulfillment (and a retcon of First Contact). And the party heist plan is lifted right out of one of the Mission Impossible films—the one where Simon Pegg has to go through the “gait measuring” security system while Tom Cruise does that underwater disk swap. At least they stole it from another Paramount property.
E6: A MUSICAL NUMBER???? WHAT IN THE HIGH HOLY EMULSIFIED **** IS THIS????? AND THE BAND, OF COURSE, JUST PICKS UP THE TUNE AND PLAYS ALONG? WHERE IS SECURITY DURING ALL THIS? WHY DOES GOD HATE ME?????
E7: Picard’s entire coma episode, and his whole childhood backstory subplot, is just story padding to get them to ten episodes. And also, simultaneously, a reductionist retcon. At the very end, we’re told that Picard’s entire TNG character arc was just a little boy running away from his repressed pain. Thanks for s***ing on seven years of our lives, Kurtzf***. On a production note, the orange-teal lighting contrast is just as big a cinematography cliché as the anamorphic lens flares that JJ Abrams first polluted the Trek timeline with, and which are just as overused here.
E8: More padding, this time from a character (the FBI agent) whose sole purpose is to hold Picard in place for 60 minutes.
E9: Yeah, let’s interrupt the climax with a flashback. Cuz slowing down the action is always such great technique. And a decades-old firearm Picard just happens to find in an old box in a dungeon just happens to be in perfect operating condition and LOADED! Wow, such writing craft. I truly am in awe.
Kudos to whoever guessed that Agnes was the Borg queen under the mask on the Stargazer. I didn’t see that coming, but then again, I wasn’t anywhere near invested enough to even think about it.
So this was every bit as terribly, lazily written as Strange New Hair. Never again.
asalaw
Sr Member
I sat in on a James Cawley talk yesterday, and he said something arresting:
Season 3 of Picard is actually Season 8 of TNG. All the actors are back, and this time they get a proper sendoff. James was on the sets, he knows everything that happens, and said if you loved TNG, you will love S3 of Picard.
He said Patrick brings his A-game.
The showrunner is new, the first guy is gone, and the new guy is a TNG devotee who apparently didn’t much care for S1 & 2.
Finally, my own comment. I’m not upset by the idea of Q having mortality issues. But what do you do with that? That’s what’s important, and S2 left the interesting stuff on the table.
I’d rather see Q come close to death but survive, and then, see how it changed him. What does a slow, withering brush with death do to someone who’s never even considered mortality? To an infinite creature, suddenly made finite? Does it humble him? Bring him closer to Humanity? Make him more understanding of Humanity’s flaws? Or does surviving make him even more arrogant?
That’s what I’d pay to see, and especially to see John De Lancie perform it. I mentioned it to him in the bridge chat, and he thought it was a good idea. But sadly, as I said, the show left all this potential on the table.
Season 3 of Picard is actually Season 8 of TNG. All the actors are back, and this time they get a proper sendoff. James was on the sets, he knows everything that happens, and said if you loved TNG, you will love S3 of Picard.
He said Patrick brings his A-game.
The showrunner is new, the first guy is gone, and the new guy is a TNG devotee who apparently didn’t much care for S1 & 2.
Finally, my own comment. I’m not upset by the idea of Q having mortality issues. But what do you do with that? That’s what’s important, and S2 left the interesting stuff on the table.
I’d rather see Q come close to death but survive, and then, see how it changed him. What does a slow, withering brush with death do to someone who’s never even considered mortality? To an infinite creature, suddenly made finite? Does it humble him? Bring him closer to Humanity? Make him more understanding of Humanity’s flaws? Or does surviving make him even more arrogant?
That’s what I’d pay to see, and especially to see John De Lancie perform it. I mentioned it to him in the bridge chat, and he thought it was a good idea. But sadly, as I said, the show left all this potential on the table.
Last edited:
Mottrex
Sr Member
But wasn't it shot Back to Back with S2 with the same crew?
I'm just wondering just because your On set doesn't mean it can't get messed up in the final edit if he had a creative role in its production. The Tea boys are on set but I don't think they has much imput on the precedings, well apart from hydrating Sir Pats that is..
I hope its better, can't really be much worse...
Can it
Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me... is my sentiment towards Star Trek since 2009.
Paramount or whoever is in charge of what they are calling Trek now lost me as a dyed in the wool Star Trek fan when Enterprise was cancelled.
The 1st episodes of both Picard and Disco were enough to tell me that the Star Trek I loved had been and gone.
Regardless of the hype for series 3 of Picard I just won't watch it. From the RLM reviews I've seen of series 1 it just seems like the actors aren't playing characters they are just going through the motions, saying the words from terrible scripts. It was hard for a long time to even go back and watch TNG given how much I felt the new stuff had tainted my enjoyment knowing this is what their characters apparent futures were.
I had to try and reconcile that conflict by ignoring what I consider the absolute bin fire that Star Trek has become and move on.
In a nutshell it's a hard pass on Pic series 3 for me.
Paramount or whoever is in charge of what they are calling Trek now lost me as a dyed in the wool Star Trek fan when Enterprise was cancelled.
The 1st episodes of both Picard and Disco were enough to tell me that the Star Trek I loved had been and gone.
Regardless of the hype for series 3 of Picard I just won't watch it. From the RLM reviews I've seen of series 1 it just seems like the actors aren't playing characters they are just going through the motions, saying the words from terrible scripts. It was hard for a long time to even go back and watch TNG given how much I felt the new stuff had tainted my enjoyment knowing this is what their characters apparent futures were.
I had to try and reconcile that conflict by ignoring what I consider the absolute bin fire that Star Trek has become and move on.
In a nutshell it's a hard pass on Pic series 3 for me.
Hopefully Raffi and Seven of “Never Kill Anyone Again, Just Because They Deserve It” Nine get dropped off at a starbase in the first 5 minutes of Season 3, episode 1.
I can’t see a proper outing with the TNG crew with those two incongruent and insufferable characters in tow.
It’s a shame what they have done to the Seven of Nine character.
Mottrex
Sr Member
Not forgetting The Omnipresent WesCrush.. Who's bound to swoop in for the final episode saving the day after being elevated to Q status.
Or a crazy reveal that He was in fact Q all along and wanted to get Picard back for all the backhanded comments and that Thang with his Mom
asalaw
Sr Member
Well, same “crew” is very different from the same showrunner. He would have done his own prep, approved his own scripts, etc. A showrunner and crew have almost nothing to do with each other. A showrunner doesn’t even hire crew—he hires the people who hire those people. I was a location manager on a network series, and I never met our showrunner or even saw him from afar. Using the same crew for a back-to-back shoot is incredibly cost-efficient, and that’s why you would do it. They know the ropes of the series, they know each other, and they have a rhythm. They’ll hit the ground running.But wasn't it shot Back to Back with S2 with the same crew?
I'm just wondering just because your On set doesn't mean it can't get messed up in the final edit if he had a creative role in its production. The Tea boys are on set but I don't think they has much imput on the precedings, well apart from hydrating Sir Pats that is..
I hope its better, can't really be much worse...
Can it
As for messing up in the final edit, well, it’s possible, I’m skeptical of the idea that it would happen, but time will tell.
Also, given James Cawley’s renowned (and confirmed to me by several who know him) obsession with accuracy and detail, knowing he didn’t care at all for Strange New Hair (though he’s glad it’s around because it will bring new fans to TOS/TNG), knowing he worked on TNG building Wesley’s costumes, and finally, knowing he’s close friends with Doug Drexler, Michael & Denise Okuda, and others from that era, I trust his word.
Watching Voyager again, as I have been doing a lot lately, the character is like chalk and cheese compared between Voyager and Picard.
It's almost like Kurtzman and Co had no idea what to do with her but wanted the fan bait of bringing back the character. So they just wrote "Seven of Nine" on the white board underneath the character trait heading of "damaged and gloomy" under which you found every other character's name, Kurtzman and co all hugged and walked out of the office straight up to payroll and picked up their wages with an overwhelming sense of pride and accomplishment with their exactly 7 minutes of work and all took the rest of the week off with exhaustion even though it was only 9.07am on Monday. It's really tough writing 10 episodes a year.
Similar threads
